Thinkpads Forum

Vista just is a pain to deal with too many things I can't change. The wireless performance has been terrible. I get great connection to the router but the internet is in and out. I don't know if this is a setting problem or a vista issue but I have tried the tricks I have found here and even installed my Belkin N1 card and software to see if that helps. My room mate doesn't have the issue, nor does my T30 with the same card so I am pretty sure it is a setup or vista issue. I uninstalled thinkpad access and tried windows alone. If I could uninstall the windows version I might try the other way. For what this computer should be able to do, vista slows is down to me. So what are the penalties to going back to XP or XP pro? T60 8743 with the ATI video card and a 1.6 core 2 duo.

In my opinion there's nothing to lose (except the fancy crap Aero interface Vista has)

I will be ordering a new T61, when I found a US address to send the laptop in. And I will downgrade myself the machine to XP Pro.
I really don't like Vista and never will.

There has been also problems since Service Pack 1 for Vista came out. Some people have reported having issues on their T61p with SP1.

So, in my opinion, if something just works well for years and years (XP), why change it. Also Vista is a memory sucker.

I had setup my XP installation to be visually appealing as Vista, just no transparencies, same font, etc... and people think my laptop have Vista.

You also get more battery life on XP, well Aero just produces more heat on your laptop.

Windows vista is just nice for dummies. Switching back to Windows XP will speed up the system. Windows XP boots faster, turn of faster, goes in suspend or hibernate faster. You don't have to click twice when you want to less basic things.

Wow , lot of people dont like Vista.
I'm useing a T41(P-M 1.5Ghz/1.5Gig ram/ATI9000/40-5400rpm,ect).
I had XP Pro SP3 on it (clean install) It runs good.Then i had Vista Home Pre (with Key) here so i installed it on the T41.I find it runs realy good.Alot faster then i thought it would.Dont have the 3D power but for everyday use it's fast.
It takes about 3 full min's to boot up but when it's up it feels faster then XP.
Overall i like Vista , i have no problems with it for what i use a laptop for.Internet,wireless,photoshop,some video and DVD making(have external dvd burner),MS word/Excel,itunes,ect.For those things this T41 running Vista is great.I just need a bigger hard drive.

kblackav8or wrote:Vista just is a pain to deal with too many things I can't change. The wireless performance has been terrible. I get great connection to the router but the internet is in and out. I don't know if this is a setting problem or a vista issue but I have tried the tricks I have found here and even installed my Belkin N1 card and software to see if that helps. My room mate doesn't have the issue, nor does my T30 with the same card so I am pretty sure it is a setup or vista issue. I uninstalled thinkpad access and tried windows alone. <snip>

I have a wireless issue as well with Vista with my T61p. I have opened a case with Microsoft because I have trieed tests as you have and XP works perfectly. I have at least received confirmation of my case, and if I get a solution, I will post it here. ... JDH

kblackav8or wrote:Vista just is a pain to deal with too many things I can't change...

I agree with your post and have switched back between Vista and XP (x32 & x64) more times than I can recall. Regardless of the neat features in WinVista my T61p is always running way too hot in comparison to WinXP (including WinVista x64 with 4Gig Memory). This really concerns me and is "a" major reason why I always return to Windows XP x32 (can't recommend WinXP x64 Pro, no drivers and software support tenuios - in fact, I would recommend WinVist x64 if you need a x64 bit OS). I am not aware of any perceived performance decrease in downgrading to WinXP, and would agree with others that my systems seems to run faster in WinXP.

John

You'll love going to XP once you're done with the process.

Vista runs hotter on every single machine that I've tested and compared, and that's quite a few. It's a resource hog. It may or may not become a decent OS three years from now.

XP has been around long enough that most of its bugs have been sorted out, drivers are dime a dozen and although it had quite a few issues when it was first released, it is now stable and workable. With newer hardware, it feels ridiculously fast.

My $0.02 only...

With all said, XP wins, period. Consider lucky that Lenovo still provides Windows XP drivers for their newer machines. I can't imagine having to use Vista on a new laptop as a result that I can't find the correct drivers for my new laptop.

XP Pro 32 bit was ordered last night. Hope to see it in maybe a week or if I am lucky a few days. I am going to move everything off my C drive that I need to save and then start from scratch. I have the Vista Home version so the Lenovo option was out, plus they won't ship to FPO's so I would have had to wait another 10 days or more to get it forwarded out. In 2 weeks this will have 4gb (I know it will only use 3 of it) XP, and an external drive holder to go along with the caddy that came in today. I figure I add back in whatever Lenovo software that is worth having through downloads. If it weren't for the screwy unreliable connections, I probably would have lived with it a while longer.
Kevin

Good luck mate. Nothing compares to having a nice machine with XP 32 bits running at full speed. It's such a shame that due to marketing strategies a lot people come to the belief that Vista is superior whilst they're using their laptops so proudly they do not realize Vista is a resources hog. My T42p could even beat in speed any other cheapo machines my classmates have (HP's, Gateways, Dells, etc)

Can't imagine what the performance will be when I upgrade to a T61.

kblackav8or wrote:XP Pro 32 bit was ordered last night.

you PAID for windows???
at school we could practically get windows for free from the IT service center!
even out of school, i've always managed to find some old machine that we were about to throw out with a winxp coa that we could use.
heck, right now at my house we have at least 2 winxp coas that are unused!

No judgment if he went the legal route.

Maybe it's understable to get a COA, but this is not enough, you need the contents of the files, which commonly are located on c:\i386

There is no such thing as free Windows license. Your school (Rutgers, I'm guessing from your location) is distributing the media for little to no cost because they have picked up the option to cover their students in addition to professors and staff in the licensing agreement. It is uncommon for schools do this for their students. There are complicated conditions on top of the usual EULA in the arrangement. I.e., the license is only valid for as long as you remain affiliated to the school, etc.

On the bright side, Microsoft rarely enforces licensing on small and private users.

gongo2k1 wrote:even out of school, i've always managed to find some old machine that we were about to throw out with a winxp coa that we could use.

correct me if i'm mistaken, but isn't the copy of windows on those machines supposed to be destroyed if the machines the coas are attached to are discarded?

That would depend on if the Windows product is retail, upgrade or OEM edition. In a nutshell, retail license is transferable, oem is not, and upgrade depends on the previous version.

Oem is by far the most common.

^^^

from the post, i was presuming the referenced machines had oem coas attached.

Yes, I think that gonko refers to having the sticker on the back of the machine. But the weird thing is the sticker, which is only legal to have it if it belongs to that particular machine. But you also need the system files of the OS to install it.
Of course you could download some pirated copy of Windows on the net, but that is not legal and those copies are generally VLK's not OEM, so the serial on the sticker does not work.

Yes, ITESM (A Mexican school) have a Microsoft Campus Agreement, you can get a Windows XP CD for a ridiculous amount of like 10 bucks or something, but it's entitled only for its use only in school to teachers, students, etc. In no way there's a license there.

agarza wrote:No judgment if he went the legal route.

certainly. i wasn't suggesting anyone NOT pay for windows, i only meant to point out that in my experience, i haven't been in a position where i've had to purchase a copy of winxp, retail or otherwise, in a long time, that's all. i don't actually know specifics of licensing and all that, but i guess i figured that as long as the online activation worked, everything was legit.

The activation process is not an accurate test of the legitimacy of your windows installation. It is far more lenient than the EULA terms. The activation server will permit about 3 activations before you have to use the manual activation process. OEM preloaded Windows validates via a string stored in the computer BIOS and you don't need to enter the product key at all. OEM preloads don't contact the activation server at all.

When it comes to licensing enforcement, judgment will be made according to the terms of the EULA, not by whether the computer passes the activation test. I know EULA is all legalese and no one wants to read that, but it is the contract between you and MS on the conditions of using their product.

I have no desire to become a licensing police. I just want to correct the misconceptions that are present in this thread. While MS has not gone after individual end users in the war on software piracy, doing things right gives you the peace of mind.

As an update. I have XP Pro installed and pretty well updated. Works so much better. I think I might splurge for a CPU update and be done with this and just use it. Vista stinks if you don't have a very fast machine. By the way, wireless now works flawlessly all the time. No need for my external Belkin anymore.

Pascal_TTH wrote:Windows vista is just nice for dummies. Switching back to Windows XP will speed up the system. Windows XP boots faster, turn of faster, goes in suspend or hibernate faster. You don't have to click twice when you want to less basic things.

I'm not entirely sure about the boot times. I have 2 very similar laptops. One with XP and a slightly less powerful one with vista. Vista boots much quicker.

Miller88 wrote:

Pascal_TTH wrote:Windows vista is just nice for dummies. Switching back to Windows XP will speed up the system. Windows XP boots faster, turn of faster, goes in suspend or hibernate faster. You don't have to click twice when you want to less basic things.

I'm not entirely sure about the boot times. I have 2 very similar laptops. One with XP and a slightly less powerful one with vista. Vista boots much quicker.

My Vista machine boots quicker than my XP machine (not massively so, just a bit quicker), but to Pascal's point, I do dislike clicking two or three times when once will do it in XP. ... JDH