Thinkpads Forum

I've had several laptops and my last laptop (which I still have) is a Macbook Pro 17" in Core 1 Duo which has been very good to me. My only problem with it has been the 2gb memory ceiling and the difficulty in upgrading the internal hard drive.

Anyways, so I ordered a T61p recently with all the fixings maxed out and it's main attraction to me was the reputation for build quality and the WUXGA screen in a small package. I didn't go with the T500 because the lack of the screen option during the time of my order and because the keyboard was changed to an inferior model in the T500.

Its a lot larger than it needs to be. The uneven and thick screen bezels are distracting and the screen itself is actually pretty dim. Even at max brightness I find that it gets washed out in bright conference rooms. Maybe they only meant for it to be used in the dark when a presentation was on with a projector.

It came with quite a bit of junk installed including trials to office, symantec software, and other useless things.

The plastics don't feel quite top notch either and there is some flex to them. Maybe it's because the laptop is so unnecessarily large there isn't enough skeleton inside to make everything rigid.

On Macbooks and Macbook Pros, there's a higher feel quality to it in terms of how well it was put together and quality of the materials. I admit this is completely a subjective measure. However, this is probably the greatest disappointment as the reputation for Thinkpad quality is unequal in the PC side I was expecting a bit more. I got to use some of the newer HP laptops and they actually seem more solid to me than the new T series.

Anyways, it weighs the same as a Macbook Pro 17, and it's roughly the same size while being slightly thicker. I'm sorta kinda getting buyer's regret on the machine since this will be with me for at least 2 years.

Next month, when new MBPs are out again, I might have to take a hit and sell the laptop and pick up a new MBP.

I'll give it a few weeks though and decide for sure.

edit: On the plus side, the keyboard is as good as they say and even though it's a bit unattractive with what looks like cheap stickers, it does feel better than the MBP keyboards which I thought were the next best in new laptops.

Send it back to Lenovo, take the restocking fee hit, and get a new MBP... the restocking fee is easier to live with than the hit you'll take selling it "a few months old" on eBay, not to mention, if you don't sell it, you'll be stuck with a machine you don't like for two years.

You should have known about the size, uneven bezel and the general PC industry practice of loading up useless software. People don't usually buy ThinkPads because they are trendy, hip, sexy (although I'd argue, as a ThinkPad user since 1993 and ex-IBMer, that I prefer the black look, matte screen, TrackPoint, ThinkLight, and all the other goodness that comes with a ThinkPad). Looks aside, the software is easy to get rid of... wipe and reload a clean OS.

I bought a Sony Vaio SZ series in March. The first non-ThinkPad I've purchased in over a decade, because I really don't like the current ThinkPads' offset/uneven bezel (which has been endlessly beaten to death), I hated it when IBM incorporated a touchpad, when Lenovo got rid of the red stripes on the TrackPoint buttons and dropped in silver volume/mute buttons, using even dimmer LCDs than I could remember...

So I went with Sony... the SZ screen is drop-dead gorgeous. I didn't even mind the fact that it was widescreen and glossy. Sony has done a good job providing glossy screens that don't reflect too much (IMHO), and the brightness is superb. It looked sleek, modern, cutting edge, and I had it loaded up.

Then I sold it recently, and I ordered an X200.... lol

I missed the TrackPoint, the keyboard feel, and all the BIOS settings that Sony locks out, the lack of an UltraBay to swap drives and batteries, the monumental task of changing hard drives, all the weird Sony drivers that needed to load and random weird crashes and USB connect/disconnect/powerup/powerdown that would happen intermittently.

In the end, it was a great looking laptop, but I missed all the productivity touches that go into a ThinkPad. And I've been using an X60 for so long at work now (being a T Series user for years at home), that I'm going with the smaller form-factor for my personal machine. I like the X200's brighter LCD (v. X300), a centered LCD (despite the large bezel), the full size keys (despite preferring a 4:3 screen, I'm getting used to widescreen), the red stripes back on the TrackPoint buttons (Yeah!!! Don't know why I like the stripes, but I do), the ThinkLight, the battery life, and the Intel X4500 integrated graphics are now powerful enough for the ancient PC games I occasionally play.... all in all, I'm glad to be re-joining the Thinkpad family after a brief flirt with a laptop du jour... I'd say, based on your post, you'll probably be equally happy to rejoin the Apple faithful.

Daniel.

Conmee is probably right that you'd be best of getting back to MBP land.

However, most of your concerns are pretty minor and easily corrected. The offset bezel is really a non issue. In actual use it doesn't make a difference. I agree it looks awkward if you focus and obsess about it, but actually using the machine, I don't even see it anymore.

The software bloat is easily gotten rid of by doing a clean install which is very easy to do, especially if you back up your Vista (assuming you have Vista installed) activation using the Vista ABR utility that is freely available. A few of those Thinkvantage programs are actually pretty useful, like Active protection for the hard drive, and some people find Access Connections useful. Ez Eject, Hot Key Features and associated programs like Presentation Director are pretty useful. I believe the Power Manager Driver is pretty important to have.

Conmee pretty much hit on what makes a Thinkpad, especially the T series so nice . . . the bios, the ultrabay, the thinklight (couldn't live without that personally), keyboard, and on mine the screen is pretty bright (albeit probably not as beautiful as those on the MBPs.

The T61 are probably much stronger and rigid where it matters than most other laptops, including the MBP. They have a very strong magnesium rollcage skeletonized internal structure. Perhaps that is why the external plastic parts don't feel as solid as they used to, because they are no longer providing much in the way of structural support so Lenovo could get away with making them cheaper/thinner. The strength now mostly comes from the roll cage. So even though it may flex and not feel as strong, the fact is, it is actually stronger than ever and probably more so than most other mainstream laptops.

If you do decide to give it more of a chance and do a clean install, make sure to burn recovery disks first so that if you ever want to you can bring the laptop back to the original fresh from the factory state.

Yes, I agree with the above posters. A clean install of Windows (XP or Vista) yields on a very responsive machine.

The new quality for new T61 is not distributed evenly in all the laptop components. I just received a T61 last week, and I must say there are some details on the laptop that find it rather annoying. My T61 is a 4:3 model with the even more visible uneven bezel. I must confess it feels weird when you start to look at it.
There are some creaky parts on the left bezel just to the left of the Fn key that makes a clickety noisy which is so annoying. Overall the machine feels much more sturdier than my old T42p.
The LCD has horrible backlighting, I have not determined the manufacturer for my LCD panel (42T0438 FRU) supposedly a Toshiba.

You ultimately should be the one to decide whether you keep the Thinkpad or not, but I must say if you give it a chance you may start to like it, considering the fact the machine will really last, contrary to other brands which out of the blue things start to break down.

Ok so it came with 4gb of RAM but with Vista 32 installed.

I already installed all my applications and even activated them...

Is there a smooth way to transition to Vista64 so I can use all 4gb of RAM without having to do a clean reinstall or did I just waste 2 days?

I'm trying to get used to the trackpoint, is there a way to fix the drift?

The trackpad is also annoyingly small.

I went to Apple centre last week and tried Mac Air and Macbook Pro. The trackpad on them is really bigger than the one on a thinkpad, but I found it is annoyingly less sensitive than the latter.

Flypenfly,
I just bought a T61 recently and for the most part have been pretty happy with it. I am dual booting XP and Ubuntu with it and love it. The only thing keeping Windows on my machine is VPN and I also haven't figured out how to make an HSDPA connection when using Linux.

Other than that, I like it and think if you decide to stick with it, you won't regret it. It for sure is not of typical IBM build quality that we're used to but it's still better IMO than most notebooks out there right now.

Just saw you're also a fellow San Diegan! Where in SD are you?

I'm actually in OC now, I used to live in downtown SD in Little Italy.

I do like that the there is no noise on the audio out with headphones.

I like the speed, it is certainly quick.

I like that you can install 2 hard drives if you want to and which I will.

I am loving this keyboard.



I do not like that the front memory card reader doesn't have a flap or something to cover up the port.

They should have lost the Modem port and gone with either DVI or FW800.

If hold or squeeze the sides of the laptop the creaking noises are very annoying. The newest HPs and even Compaqs are more solid in build in this regard.

I think the more solid thing you are noticing is really a cosmetic illusion. No way are HP's more solid than the T61's. Somewhere online there is a video of a T61 being run over by a motorcycle and still working afterwards.

I don't think there is anyway to transition from Vista x86 to Vista x64 without doing a clean install, at least I have never heard of one. I do believe your vista key is valid for both, however, it is only valid for the same version of Vista in either x86 or x64 flavors, e.g., vista business, vista home, etc.

If you do reinstall Vista, I highly recommend using the ABR (vista activation backup tool) available from links at Notebook Review.com in the lenovo section. It's very cool. I keep a back up of my vista activation on a USB disk and can restore it anytime, if necessary, (for example, after using a vista install disk to repair my vista installation) in seconds without having to involve Microsoft in the process at all.

In fact there is a very comprehensive clean install guide over at notebook review that you should take a look at before doing it as I'm sure it would help you to avoid mistakes and issues and have a smooth experience.