65W versus 90W AC power adapters

[732]

I have a T42p with a 90w adapter and an X60s with a 65w adapter, and the plugs are different sizes on these two adapters.

T42p has 4.5A*16V=72W; X40 has 3.25A*16A=52W
T60p has 4.5A*20V=90W; X60 has 3.25A*20V=65W

[Wentworth]

Have a look at what JET means in terms product approval and testing:

http://www.jet.or.jp/en/faq.html

[Radioguy]

Sorry, forget I said anything. I just referenced one of my previous posts, and see the link that says my current 90W is a Lite-On.

I'd still like to know who makes my 65W one. If it's Lite-On, I may start worrying again.

[AIX]

OK, I have a 90W one now. It's 93P5026 / 92P1109. The word "JET" is on it. Is that the manufacturer? Are they good?

I'd still love to know the manufacturer of 92P1155 / 92P1156. It still ran hot to the last second.

I don't know if you found the answer or not - it's a Delta:

IBM AC Adapter 90W 20V

*Compatible FRU P/N:
*2-pin/prong model:
By Astec - FRU: 92P1106, 42T5000, P/N: 92P1105
By Liteon - FRU: 92P1110, 93P5026, P/N: 92P1109
By Sanken - FRU: 92P1114, P/N: 92P1113
By Delta - FRU: 42T5277, P/N: 42T5276

*3-pin/prong model:
By Astec - FRU: 92P1104, P/N: 92P1103
By Liteon - FRU: 92P1108, P/N: 92P1107
By Sanken - FRU: 92P1112, P/N: 92P1101
By Delta - FRU: 42T5275, P/N: 42T5274

INPUT: 100-240V~ 2.4A, 50-60Hz
OUTPUT: 20V 4.5A 90W


*This IBM Thinkpad 65W Ultraportable AC adapter has a few set of
FRU Part Number due to different manufacturer. There are all
similar and have the same specification.

*Compatible FRU P/N:
*2-pin/prong model:
By Delta - FRU: 92P1155,
By Liteon - FRU: 92P1159, P/N: 92P1160
By Astec - FRU: 92P1214

*3-pin/prong model:
By Delta - FRU: 92P1153, P/N: 92P1154
By Liteon - FRU:92P1157
By Astec - FRU: 92P1212

INPUT: 100-240V~ 1.5A, 50-60Hz
OUTPUT: 20V 3.25A 65W

[Radioguy]

Wow. Thanks for posting that. It's nice to know for certain.

Now I wonder whether Astec or Lite-On has the best build quality. The 90W was made for discrete graphics and docks, so I'd suppose none would run hot on my Intel T61 undocked, but I would still stay away from Delta. I also wonder if Delta was the default included OEM adapter mfgr.

Do current models also have adapters from these suppliers, or others?

[IvanAndreevich]

I think you are way too concerned over this. Do you leave the power supply lying on your crotch when gaming or something?

I would run any T6x machine with a 65W PSU any day. Use RMClock to lower the CPU voltage to lowest stable levels and the fan doesn't even turn on.

[GrandMasterKhan]

Braddah, I use both the 65w and the 90w on a T61 with Nvidia card. If you got discrete graphics that is how they sell it with the larger brick. It's OK to use either. Only difference is one takes longer to charge and the other is lighter and easiser to carry around. I confirmed this with Lenovo. Neither one gets hot. If yours is hot its defective but I doubt it would sear your pants or blow up. That's paranioa and borders on insanity. Lenovo uses many suppliers and if it match their specs its OK. Good enough for them should be good enough for you or they wouldn't put their name on it. lol.

[Radioguy]

I think you are way too concerned over this. Do you leave the power supply lying on your crotch when gaming or something?

I would run any T6x machine with a 65W PSU any day. Use RMClock to lower the CPU voltage to lowest stable levels and the fan doesn't even turn on.

An oddly nonsensical reply considering my earlier posts. Yes, I could have fried an egg on the Delta 65W with a single external HDD attached. That was the reason I participated in this thread in the first place.

Braddah, I use both the 65w and the 90w on a T61 with Nvidia card. If you got discrete graphics that is how they sell it with the larger brick. It's OK to use either. Only difference is one takes longer to charge and the other is lighter and easiser to carry around. I confirmed this with Lenovo. Neither one gets hot. If yours is hot its defective but I doubt it would sear your pants or blow up. That's paranioa and borders on insanity. Lenovo uses many suppliers and if it match their specs its OK. Good enough for them should be good enough for you or they wouldn't put their name on it. lol.

Two in a row?, really odd.

Defective it may be, but again, I did speak of my previous experience with Delta earlier. I have formed an opinion.

Anyhow, they also included it with the Advanced (Mini) Dock (65W won't work, especially on a discrete GPU). Also, I tend to use the 90W now regardless, but I'm not the first to inquire about reported quality of a mfgr aside from personal experience. If you don't believe me, checkout the keyboard threads.

Thanks again to AIX.

[AIX]

Radioguy you're welcome.
I have a 65W adapter (Astec), nothing particular with it, it's not hotter than my T41's 72W adapter. Anyway, I bought today a 90W adapter from ebay, it's more confortable to have 2 adapters than 1.

[bass1175]

Mine also gets extremely hot to the point where it catches my attention. I make sure not to leave it near fabrics, it gets hot enough where I cant touch it. I never felt this way about my t43s adapter.

[crashnburn]

I have always been a conservative about this. In general, using an underpowered adapter can be a fire hazard. But in this case - I think it is a non-issue.

1) I can't push my W500 over 50W power consumption and that requires running games. In anything resembling office use - I can't push it over 40W. That would make the 65W adapter "safe" to use.

2) These machines can identify which adapter is plugged - so the battery charging circuit will not overdraw a 65W adapter.

3) An extra HD is only about 2.5W (*). Each USB is limited to 2.5W. - so an extra 5-7W is probably OK as well.

For <$50, I would be somewhat reluctant to take any chances - but it looks like in this particular case, there are safety checks in place to make it OK to use a 65W adapter. I am using a third-party 90W adapter from ebay that I bought for $20 and it works great.


(*) footnote - a spinning-up drive can draw up to 5.5W but this almost never happens when the GPU is in full 3D action so it does not contribute to the peak power draw.

Unplug the computer.

You can then see the power draw in Power Manager. I use MOBmeter though because it produces a graph.

You can also monitor power usage at the plug with a kill-a-watt. Picked one up at Fry's the other day for $20 and have been going around with it for the past week finding how much juice all vampire devices actually eat. Really quite fun and educational

Wow! I gotta try these to figure out power usage for my devices.

[GrandMasterKhan]

I have 2 90W ones and neither get hot. Warm sort of but not hot. It could be the wiring in your home. Are other bricks hot and do you have a high rate of failure on your electronics?

[Radioguy]

I have 2 90W ones and neither get hot. Warm sort of but not hot. It could be the wiring in your home. Are other bricks hot and do you have a high rate of failure on your electronics?

Not whatsoever, and I said 65W, not 90W.

[ParatoOptimal]

Does the Lite-On one have the IBM part number?
I ofund one on ebay that has it's own model number with no IBM part number that is the correct V and W. It was originally bundled with a Micron laptop. I don't know the diameter of the connector.

[rkawakami]

Beside the diameter of the plug, you have to make sure that the polarity is the same (center pin +). If there's any doubt, then it's not worth playing eBay roulette.

[efrant]

[snip]

An oddly nonsensical reply considering my earlier posts. Yes, I could have fried an egg on the Delta 65W with a single external HDD attached. That was the reason I participated in this thread in the first place.

[snip]

Two in a row?, really odd.

Defective it may be, but again, I did speak of my previous experience with Delta earlier. I have formed an opinion.

Anyhow, they also included it with the Advanced (Mini) Dock (65W won't work, especially on a discrete GPU). Also, I tend to use the 90W now regardless, but I'm not the first to inquire about reported quality of a mfgr aside from personal experience. If you don't believe me, checkout the keyboard threads.

Thanks again to AIX.

I also have been running my T60p (discrete graphics) with either a 65W or a 90W for over three years now (and sometimes with the advanced mini dock). Both the 65W and the 90W adapter work equally well. Both get hot, although the 65W may get a little bit hotter, but it is too dificult to tell. Have never had ANY problems running a T60p with a 65W adapter...

[denkpfad]

Have never had ANY problems running a T60p with a 65W adapter...

Even if it's not problematic, there's a disadvantage to it, in that the CPU speed will be limited to ~1GHz when running on AC power without a battery inserted.

On a note somewhat related to the thread topic: has quality of ThinkPad PSUs dwindled overtime (akin to the keyboards, for instance), or are the newer ones just as good as the older ones? Specifically, when looking for a 90W PSU for a T60p, is it better to look for an older PSU (from, say, 2007/2008) with a FRU # matching the T60p HMM, or will a T500 PSU from 2011 (theoretically compatible) be just as good?

[dr_st]

Even if it's not problematic, there's a disadvantage to it, in that the CPU speed will be limited to ~1GHz when running on AC power without a battery inserted.

I don't see any reason why people should run their laptops without a battery inserted, though. Some people think there are good reasons to do so, but they are wrong.

On a note somewhat related to the thread topic: has quality of ThinkPad PSUs dwindled overtime (akin to the keyboards, for instance), or are the newer ones just as good as the older ones?

I haven't seen any evidence of new PSUs being any worse than old ones.

[denkpfad]

I don't see any reason why people should run their laptops without a battery inserted, though.

The thing is that one isn't always guaranteed to have a functioning battery available. Every battery will die eventually, and you probably won't be able to replace it immediately once it does. Also, while these laptop models may very well still be in working condition in 5-10 years from now, we can't know for sure whether replacement batteries are still going to be available by that time. IMHO it is generally much better not to be dependent in any way on a battery, but rather to have a PSU which allows the system to run at full speed on AC power regardless of whether a functioning battery is present or not.

Some people think there are good reasons to do so, but they are wrong.

Arguments have been raised that preventing the battery from being permanently recharged to 100% (which normally just happens if it's inserted while working on AC power) by removing it when it's not needed helps extending the life of the battery cells (certain laptops have special modes available, set either via BIOS or via OS-level power management software, which let the battery be charged only to ~80% or so to preserve the lifespan of the cells). Is there any specific information which would suggest otherwise?

I haven't seen any evidence of new PSUs being any worse than old ones.

Alright, so I gather it hasn't been observed/reported for the more recent PSUs to be of a somewhat inferior build quality (considering used parts, or otherwise) as compared to, say, the original T6x line PSUs. Thus, if I could get a new T500 PSU a bit cheaper than a used original T60p PSU, I understand I should just go ahead and get the former without any second thought, is that correct?

[dr_st]

The thing is that one isn't always guaranteed to have a functioning battery available. Every battery will die eventually, and you probably won't be able to replace it immediately once it does. Also, while these laptop models may very well still be in working condition in 5-10 years from now, we can't know for sure whether replacement batteries are still going to be available by that time. IMHO it is generally much better not to be dependent in any way on a battery, but rather to have a PSU which allows the system to run at full speed on AC power regardless of whether a functioning battery is present or not.

I agree with you in general. Even though, experience shows that batteries will still be available a long time after the useful lifespan of the laptops has expired. With that said, some people like to keep very old machines, for collecting purposes, and in those cases - you may indeed end up with no working batteries whatsoever. So for cases like this, I agree with you that it is always better to have some 90W PSUs around. But for typical day-to-day uses, I don't see any reason to run without a battery, so a 65W PSU should be just fine.

Arguments have been raised that preventing the battery from being permanently recharged to 100% (which normally just happens if it's inserted while working on AC power) by removing it when it's not needed helps extending the life of the battery cells (certain laptops have special modes available, set either via BIOS or via OS-level power management software, which let the battery be charged only to ~80% or so to preserve the lifespan of the cells). Is there any specific information which would suggest otherwise?

So, as you say, many laptops, and most Thinkpads in particular make it possible to limit battery charge level to something below 100% - 90%, 80%, whatever one prefers.

And while it is generally said that constantly being charged at 100% or near that shortens the battery life, and it is probably true, it is also true is that quality of cells (which can vary greatly between manufacturers) and random luck of the draw affect the battery life much more than charge level. Therefore there is no logical reason to worry about it.

Thus, if I could get a new T500 PSU a bit cheaper than a used original T60p PSU, I understand I should just go ahead and get the former without any second thought, is that correct?

That's my understanding.

[Saucey]

I've had no problems using T60p chargers for the W500, T400 or T500. Nor has anyone sent me a message from eBay about their product going bad within two months. So I think its safe.
I think I used a couple chargers for the T500 on my T61 and X61. I am weary of the 65W ones, as they get a bit hotter, I have a few of those I keep as backups/nunchucks.

[precip9]

The advice in this forum does not take into account the expertise of Lenovo engineers who, as eager to save a buck and an ounce as anybody, chose to specify 90 watt adapters. Laptop power adapters have a limited lifetime. But for a given power draw and equivalent quality, the higher capacity power adapter lasts longer.

Two 3rd party makers show evidence of superior quality: PWR+, and Anker. Some of us have examined the interiors of other, nameless adapters, and found them dangerous. User reviews on Amazon report fires. Particularly dangerous are adapters sold as "Lenovo" brand on Amazon. Apparently, Amazon does not watch for fakes.

This article describes cost cutting in various usb adapters. The lessons therin are applicable to laptop adapters as well
http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-u ... le-is.html

In essence, 90W adapters exhibit superior quality in the sense as an electrical engineer would appreciate it: robust, over-specced components. It is rare when the consumer has this choice. Take it.