HUGE T61 flaw : random freeze ups that require force restart

[loinhuhu]

I've been having this problem ever since I got my T61 laptop in Feb 2008. I did a google search and also found that problem is quite common with T61 owners - and not just with users who have Turbo Memory or with discrete graphics cards [Nvidia].

Here are my specs... [by the way, my graphics are integrated GMAX3100]

• Core 2 Duo T8100 / 2.1 GHz
• Centrino
• RAM 2 GB
• HDD 160 GB
• DVD±RW (±R DL) / DVD-RAM
• GMA X3100 Dynamic Video Memory Technology 4.0
• Gigabit Ethernet
• WLAN : 802.11a/b/g
• TPM
• fingerprint reader
• Vista Business
• 14.1" Widescreen TFT 1280 x 800 ( WXGA )
• TopSeller

Usually my computer freezes up immediately as it loads up with MSN Messenger set to also start up at the same time, forcing me to hold down the power button to restart the computer. There were a few times when my power button wouldn't work and I'd have to remove the battery.

I can avoid this issue by turning MSN's autostart off, but I've frozen up when I had to just type out a document in Microsoft Office for no apparent reason. I can replicate this problem by letting MSN autostart again.

This problem was present when I had Vista installed. Even after removing it, formatting and starting fresh installing Windows XP, the problem was still happening.

I really hope that more people will speak up. It is quite clear that this is actually a flaw that is in MANY T61 laptops and it's just unacceptable. So far, there hasn't been ANY clear and concise explanation as to why this happens and why so many people are experiencing this!

[Marin85]

The most natural question is: Is your ThinkPad still under warranty?

[loinhuhu]

Hrm. Nice dodge there. It still doesn't answer the question of why there are so many T61s with this problem. I don't even know how your reply even helps this thread at all and I want more people out there who are considering a T61 laptop to take this into account.

Whether I still have the warranty under my belt isn't important as this problem is apparent in many T61 thinkpads. Why waste someone's time buy a laptop even though there is a common fault just to tell them "Hrm, got a warranty?" later on?

This is a very common problem. I've also spoken to one of my classmates today and it happens with his T60. In order to avoid freezing up, he needs to open another program [firefox] prior to signing into MSN otherwise he'll freeze.

Why hasn't this issue been resolved or addressed? Could this be BIOS related?

here's a link to someone who has a similar issue like mine, but with x61? - http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7813_102-0. ... 04#2715804

I have an X40 and I set MSN to boot up immediately. No issues and never froze there.

[jdhurst]

I had a couple of random freeze-ups while I was building up my T61. After I did the latest recovery (some months ago now), applied SP1, all updates, installed Office 2007, all updates, then ipSec VPN, Adobe 9, WinZip, VMware 6.5 and a whole plethora of other tools, and then put this thing in production, I have had zero freeze-ups - none of any kind.

I put the one or two early ones down to my ruthless experimentation with Vista whilst learning.

I am very pleased my T61. I wish I were as pleased with Vista.
... JDH

[runbuh]

Let me get this straight - with two different operating systems, you get a freeze up when loading MSN at boot time, and the unit does not freeze up if you load MSN after boot? If so, I don't think that necessarily points to a laptop problem. The other post you linked to is pretty vague.

We deploy a lot of T60's and T61's at work, and I have not seen a problem such as yours.

For example - my machine is a T61 with Vista Ultimate SP1, Office 2007 Enterprise (full install), Communicator 2005, Live Messenger, HyperSnap 6, Nero 8, WinZip 11, UltraEdit 14, PDF-XChange 4, NAV 10, TeraTermPro, PuTTY 0.6, WinDVD 5, FireFox 3, QuickTime 7, Adobe Reader 8, SecureClient VPN, and probably some smaller stuff I've forgotten. I don't have any lockups, regardless of how I start Communicator and/or Live Messenger (you *ARE* using the latest version of Messenger, aren't you? MSN Messenger is the old version)

I also have a second hard drive configured with the following:
XP Pro SP3, No Office, Nero, Live Messenger, TeraTerm Pro, Putty, AirMagnet Survey/Spectrum Analyzer/Wi-Fi Analyzer, WireShark, WinDVD, GPSGate, HyperSnap, UltraEdit, WinZip, PDF-XChange, Cisco's Offline Course Player, Quicktime player, Acrobat Reader, Network Stumbler, drivers for two different USB GPS receivers , two different USB to serial adapters, one PCMCIA to Serial card, and modem drivers for my Q9h (for tethering). No problems, regardless of how I start Communicator and/or Live Messenger.

I had this same config running on my older T61, and my two previous T60's (except they were running XP SP1 and Vista with no SP). No problems.

Perhaps what helps me is that I don't load any of the Lenovo software, except for Power Management, Sound, and Hotkey. Everything else is just the drivers (video, fingerprint, wireless LAN, etc.)

[Marin85]

Hrm. Nice dodge there. It still doesn't answer the question of why there are so many T61s with this problem. I don't even know how your reply even helps this thread at all and I want more people out there who are considering a T61 laptop to take this into account.

It wasn´t my intention to "dodge" anything! I have a lot of friends having ThinkPads ranging from T60s to Tx00s and I have never seen or heard about what you describe as a "common problem" of T61 and even if there is one I don´t think msn starting with windows could be regarded as a proof or even a hint for that. The reasons why a laptop BSODs can be various and not necessarily hardware-related (e.g. think of OS, drivers, programs...). Also, in forums like this one you will rather find complaints and problem reports, but they are in general not representative for a whole model line (unlike the nVidia + 4GB problem in T61(p), which I believe has been solved for some time now). And last but not least, if there is really some widespread issue with the T61s, that is why there is such thing like warranty

Cheers

Marin


P.S. I can well understand your frustration about your problem, but I don´t think this is the right attitude to solve it. Also, if there are really so many people experiencing this issue, they would post here, right? Just my 2 cents...

[sktn77a]

I really hope that more people will speak up. It is quite clear that this is actually a flaw that is in MANY T61 laptops and it's just unacceptable. So far, there hasn't been ANY clear and concise explanation as to why this happens and why so many people are experiencing this!

I think you are assuming several different hardware issues with the T61 series are the same:

1. Turbo memory crash
2. 3D memory crash with 2DIMMS (T61p only)
3. Nvidia 8600/570M GPU problems

These are all issues with the T61 series but they are all different.

Your problem appears to be quite distinct from these known hardware issues and looks like a software issue. I realize this isn't a solution to you problem but, frequently, solving a problem involves eliminating issues that AREN'T the problem first.

[Marin85]

@sktn77a: Correct me if I´m wrong but 1. and 3. are not isolated only to ThinkPads. Regarding 3, are there any confirmed cases with T61p-s (like with Apple, DELL, ASUS notbooks featuring the 8400/8600 nVidia card)?

[sktn77a]

True, although the turbo memory issue appears to be particularly thorny with the thinkpad T61series. The Nvidia 8600/570M issue has been difficult to assess as Nvidia and laptop manufacturers have been pretty tight-lipped about it. The T61p 3D issue appears to be unique to the T61p and due to poor power tolerances on the mainboard when two memory DIMMS are drawing power and the GPU is working overtime on 3D games.