Thinkpads Forum

Hi,
I'd like to optimize my T61's idle temp (so as to have the fan turned off in idle mode and have a nearly silent notebook).

1. Is there some kind of manual for doing this in the case of the T61 (i've already assembled desktop PCs and applied thermal grease there - i always used a razor blade to apply it very thin and evenly) or can you give me some hints, like how to best access the CPU and detach the heat sink?
2. Do I need a new Lenovo specific heat pad or something of that kind?
3. Where else is thermal paste applied in my machine, beside the CPU? Motherboard chip, nvidia Chip i suppose? I probably should change it there too.
4. Can you recommend a specific kind of thermal paste, like arctic silver 5? What would achieve the best results?

Thanks for the discussion.
Steve

Arctic Silver 5 is fine. The application procedure is identical to a desktop CPU with a similar diameter die. See the maintenance manual for removal procedures. I am not aware of thermal paste being used anywhere else in a T61.

thanks
does it void the warranty to reapply thermal paste? It's a well known fact that the automatic application of paste during the assembling process is often sub-optimal.

I've never had a problem with warranty work on a Thinkpad with Thermal paste reapplied. Technically speaking, any change to a non-Customer Replaceable Unit in the machine voids the warranty. The CPU fan is a non-CRU.

Harryc wrote:I've never had a problem with warranty work on a Thinkpad with Thermal paste reapplied. Technically speaking, any change to a non-Customer Replaceable Unit in the machine voids the warranty. The CPU is a non-CRU.

ok but is reapplying Thermal Paste really a "change" to the CPU? I'm just improving the thermal condition.

Steve06 wrote: ok but is reapplying Thermal Paste really a "change" to the CPU? I'm just improving the thermal condition.

They might see it that way because you have to remove a non-CRU part (the fan) in order to reapply the paste.

Chris

so if one day i had to send the machine to lenovo b/c of maybe some other hardware problem, they might become aware that the thermal paste looks different from the original one, conclude that the machine had some non-CRU work done and declare the warranty as void?

Probably not...if you are looking for validation that what you are about to do is 100% within warranty guidelines, then you are not going to get an affirmative answer here. Just do it ...

What you are going to do is 100% against the warranty guidelines, period.

Whether the service people will notice/care?

For a non-mobo related problem? They are 95% sure not to notice and 99% sure not to care. It will be very hard for them to claim that the screen / DVD / hard drive failed because you applied thermal paste to the CPU.

For a mobo-related problem? Hell, I've heard of people who had whole mobos replaced, and the service people never noticed that the CPU is different.

"ok but is reapplying Thermal Paste really a "change" to the CPU? I'm just improving the thermal condition."
So you say. Now, defend yourself in front of Intel, who require assemblers to demonstrate proper heat control in the entire system including the CPU.
Is your thermal paste the same conductivity? Does it migrate out of place? Does it have the same thermal expansion/creep? Is it electrically conductive, and if so, could your application be generous enough to create a short elsewhere?
Did you clean the old material properly, or have you created a mixture of compounds with unknown results? Can your process and procedures be ISO9000-certified, as many manufacturers are?

I've spoken ton Intel's internal sales and engineering support staff over the years and in their remarks about CPU failures (and why OEM versus retail CPUs are sold with different warranties) they've never mentioned a problem with manufacturer's applying heat paste improperly.

They--and AMD--have made a big point about the way lots of "two guys" shops and home builders just don't pay atttention to thermal management as a whole, and they've put out lots of material on proper thermal managment for the entire computer--designed as a system.

But if you really think you are going to "improve" the already proven and certified heat sink goo in a brand-name Centrino-certified machine..."Homey don't think so".

There are better ways to ensure a computer runs cooler, without voiding the warranty. First, turn on the air conditioner and remember the computer is designed to be used in a limited environmental range, typically centered on 74F 45%RH. Without the vents being blocked, or the components overclocked.<G>

Personally, I've consistently seeing up to 10 degree drop in cpu temp just by replacing the thermal compound with AS5.

Didn't believe it either until I see it myself.

Tony, I don't doubt any one incident can be an improvement. But what have bought?

A properly designed and implemented integrated circuit has a lifetime of about 1000 years, according to USAF testing. Assuming that yours was running 10C too hot to begin with, it would have had a life of 500 years. Congratulations, you've gotten back the other 500 years.<G>

I'd call that a non-issue unless there was a gross assembly error in the first place.

I am thinking along the line of more comfortable, less noise, and maybe a bit longer battery time. I really hate that when my laptop burns my lap.

hellosailor wrote:"ok but is reapplying Thermal Paste really a "change" to the CPU? I'm just improving the thermal condition."
So you say. Now, defend yourself in front of Intel, who require assemblers to demonstrate proper heat control in the entire system including the CPU.
Is your thermal paste the same conductivity? Does it migrate out of place? Does it have the same thermal expansion/creep? Is it electrically conductive, and if so, could your application be generous enough to create a short elsewhere?
Did you clean the old material properly, or have you created a mixture of compounds with unknown results? Can your process and procedures be ISO9000-certified, as many manufacturers are?

I've spoken ton Intel's internal sales and engineering support staff over the years and in their remarks about CPU failures (and why OEM versus retail CPUs are sold with different warranties) they've never mentioned a problem with manufacturer's applying heat paste improperly.

They--and AMD--have made a big point about the way lots of "two guys" shops and home builders just don't pay atttention to thermal management as a whole, and they've put out lots of material on proper thermal managment for the entire computer--designed as a system.

But if you really think you are going to "improve" the already proven and certified heat sink goo in a brand-name Centrino-certified machine..."Homey don't think so".

There are better ways to ensure a computer runs cooler, without voiding the warranty. First, turn on the air conditioner and remember the computer is designed to be used in a limited environmental range, typically centered on 74F 45%RH. Without the vents being blocked, or the components overclocked.<G>

Well you are right, of course, about other ways to ensure your computer runs cooler, but I know of major brand laptops that had overheating problems because there was too much thermal grease applied.

I will be putting AS5 on mine soon as well. If you can keep the fan from running (much more prone to failure than a non moving part) then you will be much better off.

Real story here. An HP laptop purchased from CC 3 years ago developed a 1 inch column down the middle of the screen that went black. No problem, I thought the extended warranty would cover it. No. The only time it has been opened is to blow clean the fan assembly so it wouldn't run all the time (dusty old house). Service denied. If they want to deny you service they will find ANY reason (I hope thats not true with lenovo factory service) but I know with HP is was. Took it to local HP shop in town, had Display replaced and was able to obtain letter stating this was not due to 'customer' care. Guess where I went then?

Now that my T61 gets so hot on the Adv Mini Dock.. I think Might need to do some HEAT mods as well.

"because there was too much thermal grease applied. "
Which is probably the reason some vendors are using thermal tape instead, it can be precut so there's no question of how much is applied.

Odd that a minidock would make a computer overheat, but this is an odd planet. No doubt there's a way to cool both.<G>

Tony Chan wrote:I am thinking along the line of more comfortable, less noise, and maybe a bit longer battery time. I really hate that when my laptop burns my lap.

I entirely agree, I highly appreciate a minimal noise working environment when doing my research.

I have a question: What do you think about applying Coollaboratory Liquid Pro thermal paste which has been tested to perform even better than Arctic Silver 5. Only problem: It must not get in touch with aluminium, otherwise it could react with the latter and oxidate. Does the T61's heatsink have an aluminium part there around there or is there a way to find out from spec sheets? (didn't find this kind of information on Lenovo/IBM's part information page).

Steve06 wrote: I have a question: What do you think about applying Coollaboratory Liquid Pro thermal paste which has been tested to perform even better than Arctic Silver 5. Only problem: It must not get in touch with aluminium, otherwise it could react with the latter and oxidate. Does the T61's heatsink have an aluminium part there around there or is there a way to find out from spec sheets? (didn't find this kind of information on Lenovo/IBM's part information page).

My only concern with this product was with a writeup/ review I had read recently. Here is an excerpt...

"Removal of the liquid is a bit more trickier. You are probably left with a processor that can't be cleaned completely. The instructions manual says that you simply need to wipe it off. But your left with a processor still shining like a mirror. I was left with a processor still a bit shiny, with the letters and numbers gone. So that's the warranty issue that comes into play if you are going to use this product."

http://www.burnoutpc.com/modules/smarts ... itemid=263

Also Steve, check out the second page of this review for a comparison to AS5. You may be surprised...

Eating away lettering on the CPU? ... Yikes, that is bad mojo.

ok, i agree that a paste that scrambles the letters on your processor should be avoided.

what about the Liquid MetalPad, also from Coollaboratory? I heard it is easier to apply, maybe it is also easier to remove?

Has anybody tested it?

Steve06 wrote:ok, i agree that a paste that scrambles the letters on your processor should be avoided.

what about the Liquid MetalPad, also from Coollaboratory? I heard it is easier to apply, maybe it is also easier to remove?

Has anybody tested it?

Steve, I'm not trying to discourage you. Will it be worth it? Best I've seen is about 1-2 degrees cooler than AS5 and you have to go through a forced burn-in period for bonding that is (IIRC 70 degrees) higher than AS5. Since everyone from newegg to Radio Shack carries AS5, it is just easier to obtain, clean and reuse what I now consider a 'mainstream' product.

I see a lot of posts that imply that new thermal compound will do more than simply assure proper heat transfer. That said, my T61p runs quite cold. I feel the HD warmth after prolonged disk activity but that is about all.

So what makes you think a new machine, better engineered than earlier machines, old problems ostensibly thought through, will run vastly cooler by renewing an already decent and in-place compound.

The only time I have replaced thermal compound was when I replaced the CPU, and in that case (my T41) the computer ran at the same temp before as after.

I suppose I am just cynical, but I fail to see the value in the rush to replace thermal compound. ... JDH

crashnburn wrote:Now that my T61 gets so hot on the Adv Mini Dock.. I think Might need to do some HEAT mods as well.

Same here. Before my mini dock, I had my T61 on a Antec cooler. Now in the dock the temps go up, and if I put the dock on the cooler, it can't cool since the vents don't line up.

hellosailor wrote: Odd that a minidock would make a computer overheat, but this is an odd planet. No doubt there's a way to cool both.<G>

Like I said, unless there's a way to mod the dock with a fan, I'd guess no.

I rather undervolt my CPU than reapply thermal paste. You can find the undervolting guide at NotebookReview forums.

agarza wrote:I rather undervolt my CPU than reapply thermal paste. You can find the undervolting guide at NotebookReview forums.

I guess I might do that until I get more adventurous.

I have just reapplied the thermal paste (Arctic Silver 5) on my low-end T60 (T2400, GMA950). The idle temp dropped from around 60 to 50. The cooling seems a lot more effective and if I do something CPU intensive, the temp drops much faster after I'm done.

I can only recommend this.

Harryc wrote:I've never had a problem with warranty work on a Thinkpad with Thermal paste reapplied. Technically speaking, any change to a non-Customer Replaceable Unit in the machine voids the warranty. The CPU fan is a non-CRU.

IBM will send you a new fan that you can replace yourself. I recently did this for an in-warranty 60p. However, they will warn you that if you break something while fixing it that is not covered under warranty. It will not void your warranty so long as you don't damage your laptop while replacing the fan yourself.

Is Arctic Silver 5 the best paste that can be used for this?