Just Scored a T60p, A Few Questions

[bmwman91]

I scored one off of eBay today (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0278666962). My apologies to anyone here who may have been bidding on it as well, I know the other bidder gave me a run for my $. Well, it is also my fault for not having used eBay on so long that I forgot that I should have bid within the last 2 minutes, not 4 hours prior.

Anywho, from all I have read in the TABook & around here, the 15" 1600x1200 UXGA displays on T60p's are all Flexview units, correct? There is only a toss-up on the 15" SXGA+ ones?

How hard is it to source T7600 C2D processors? I have seen them on eBay for $250 at about the lowest. I suppose that is the curse of mobile processors...hard to find, and $$$. Cheaper would be nice. So, ALL T60p's have the Rev3 MoBo which will work with C2D processors, right (may need BIOS update)?

Are there any ownership tips with these? I know some T-models have had issues with GPU's frying/solder joints cracking.

Anyway, I am super stoked that I got one. Even if the display isn't a Flexview one, it seems that I can get them for ~$100 on here. If anyone has a T7600, or Advanced Mini-Dock / Advanced Dock for sale, let me know!

(Sort of unrelated)
What would a fair price for a T41p be on here? It has some wear on the rubberized cover, a small mark on the display from the keyboard (not bad, but can be seen with display off), no dead pixels, 6-cell battery, 1GB RAM, Mini Dock, Mini Dock II + 90W adapter, standard AC adapter, and the rest is listed in my signature. I paid $650 for it last year in a Craigslist deal.

Admin note: Moved as requested .

[RonS]

Congrats on the new T60p!

- The 15" 1600x1200 is definitely Flexview. You have one of the last ones. Baby that unit.
- T7600 chips are easy to find. The upgrade is also fairly easy to do (I did it myself to my T60p). Search this forum for instructions.

[ajkula66]

ALL 15" LCDs on T60p units in the 4:3 form factor are IPS FlexView, regardless whether they're SXGA+ or UXGA.

The issues that you're concerned about belong to the previous generation of T units, T4x series, infamous for cracking solder under the GPU. No such problem on T60/p machines, ever.

My only complaint regarding several T60p units that I've owned is that they were hotter-running than I had expected, but that can be addressed by using TPFC.

Congratulations on a very nicely spec'd T60p that you've picked under the market, even at today's recession prices, I'm certain you'll be pleased with it.

[bmwman91]

Congrats on the new T60p!

- The 15" 1600x1200 is definitely Flexview. You have one of the last ones. Baby that unit.
- T7600 chips are easy to find. The upgrade is also fairly easy to do (I did it myself to my T60p). Search this forum for instructions.

Great, thanks! I am excited to see how the IPS display looks. I am pleased enough with the active matrix screen on my T41p...I suppose I am about to be spoiled.

[bmwman91]

ALL 15" LCDs on T60p units in the 4:3 form factor are IPS FlexView, regardless whether they're SXGA+ or UXGA.

The issues that you're concerned about belong to the previous generation of T units, T4x series, infamous for cracking solder under the GPU. No such problem on T60/p machines, ever.

My only complaint regarding several T60p units that I've owned is that they were hotter-running than I had expected, but that can be addressed by using TPFC.

Congratulations on a very nicely spec'd T60p that you've picked under the market, even at today's recession prices, I'm certain you'll be pleased with it.

Sweet, I am glad to hear that the solder bump issue was resolved. I thought I heard something about the Nvidia 8-series GPU's having that issue (the 570M in the T61 is just a glorified 8600gs, right?), but who knows. I am a thermal/mechanical engineer in the consumer electronics industry, so I like to be on top of this stuff (especially since I have worked on a product with one of the most infamous solder-joint failures out there).

If/When I install a T7600, I will be using some Shin Etsu G751 thermal paste on the CPU & GPU since it is basically the best paste out there (well, and I get it for free at work). I don't know what Lenovo uses, but this certainly won't be any worse.

Anyway, thanks for the kind words. It is nice to know that I got a good deal. Based upon what I saw on here, the price seemed almost like a steal for what I got.

[RealBlackStuff]

Congrats on a fine machine.
Go over it with a fine toothcomb, if anything is amiss, you can still send it in under warranty.
And if I were you, I would extend the warranty for at least another two years (for your piece of mind and your wallet).

[bmwman91]

Congrats on a fine machine.
Go over it with a fine toothcomb, if anything is amiss, you can still send it in under warranty.
And if I were you, I would extend the warranty for at least another two years (for your piece of mind and your wallet).

I thought about doing that. However, I sort of want to install a T7600 processor in it which would most likely void my warranty. Hmmm.....which parts on these are the ones that die most commonly?

[ajkula66]

What is most likely to die on any machine is the hard drive, but warranty would take care of that.

Generally, T60/p units are amongst the most reliable ThinkPads that I've owned. Just make sure that the LCD is flawless, and everything else will be a piece of cake...

Honestly, for most people, the CPU that the machine currently has is fast enough...your opinion and needs may be different though...

[dr_st]

What is most likely to die on any machine is the hard drive, but warranty would take care of that.

And the optical drive. Followed by the LCD.

The Flexview LCDs on these models have pretty ridiculous issues. I have replaced two of them under warranty in the past 2 years for developing the "white spot backlight peering through" syndrome. Then two weeks or so after I got the second of these LCDs exchaged for this backlight thing, I had to exchange it again, because of a FRIGGING HAIR that got inside the screen. Not to mention all the dust specs, that these screens seem far more prone to than any other I have seen. Overall Lenovo/IBM probably lost close to a $1000 on me due to these screen exchanges, and I would not be surprised if they refuse to sell me any laptops in the future.

So yeah, extend the warranty for the maximum of 5 years.

Regarding the CPU - oh boy you got the absolute worst one. A T2600 is a very annoying CPU to have, because on the other hand you want a Core 2 Duo, and on the other hand the T2600 is so fast, that the only reasonable upgrade is a T7600. But then again, it's not a reasonable upgrade because due to being the top of its line, it's disproportionally expensive compared to the T7200/T7400. But these would hardly be any noticeable upgrade at all (the T7200 might even be a small downgrade).

[yak]

I wouldn't say the CPU is bad. What's the real benefit of having a 64bit CPU if you cannot extend your RAM beyond 3GB?

[Ck51010]

Congrats on the machine. The price you paid is slightly less than the going rate for these T60p. After using a FlexView screen, it's hard to look at anything else (IMO).

If the machine was well taken care of, it should be free of any major issues, but since you have the warranty I wouldn't worry about it.

The T7600 upgrade isn't difficult, but if you do it, you'll void the warranty and the laptop might run hotter. I would only do it if you insist on running a 64 bit OS.

[Temetka]

Nice score on that T60p you got there.

Man I am so envious of your LCD and GPU as compared to my T60 with XGA and Intel GMA.

May it serve you well.

[dr_st]

The T7600 upgrade isn't difficult, but if you do it, you'll void the warranty and the laptop might run hotter. I would only do it if you insist on running a 64 bit OS.

There is a thread here somewhere that claims that you should change the fan when moving from CD to C2D on a T60, because the original Core Duo fan does not handle Core 2 Duos well, and this is what might cause the machine to run hotter.

[yak]

Man I am so envious of your LCD and GPU as compared to my T60 with XGA and Intel GMA.

Intel GMA graphics have their advantages, like lesser power consumption or cooler operation, both of which are quite important for a mobile computer. That's why I opted for GMA in my T60 and I wouldn't want any ATI graphics instead. Of course it only works for you if you're not gaming, which I'm not.

XGA is too little for serious work thou. Luckily the LCD can easily be exchanged. After lurking at eBay for some time I was able to get a nice deal on a SXGA+ one. After selling my old XGA, the total cost was only about 20 Euros.

[bmwman91]

Thanks for the kind words & helpfuul suggestions everyone.

The reason I was looking at the C2D upgrade was just because I read on some comparisons that the a 2.16GHz C2D versus a 2.16GHz CD would run ~10% faster in media editing. Not that I would probably even notice 10% unless I was timing it, but it is there nagging at my brain since I "know." Having a warranty sounds pretty darn nice though. How much does it cost to extend it? $100/yr or something? Anyway, I primarily use my computers for web development, photo editing (anything from photoshop, to batch-compressing 100+ images with irfanview after a trip with my digicam) & some MCAD work with photo-realistic renders on-occasion. If there is a negligible difference between the CD & C2D, I will leave well-enough alone.

I did read on a wikipedia listing of the various Yonah & Merom processors that the T2600 dissipates 31W peak, versus 34W peak for the T7600. That is an 8.8% increase in TDP, which depending on your operating conditions, could be more than the thermal management system can handle. Should I upgrade, I will certainly look into proper cooling.

[Temetka]

Man I am so envious of your LCD and GPU as compared to my T60 with XGA and Intel GMA.

Intel GMA graphics have their advantages, like lesser power consumption or cooler operation, both of which are quite important for a mobile computer. That's why I opted for GMA in my T60 and I wouldn't want any ATI graphics instead. Of course it only works for you if you're not gaming, which I'm not.

XGA is too little for serious work thou. Luckily the LCD can easily be exchanged. After lurking at eBay for some time I was able to get a nice deal on a SXGA+ one. After selling my old XGA, the total cost was only about 20 Euros.

Don't get me worng, the GMA is no slouch for my uses. It does everything photoshop asks of it, play movies fine and runs all my games fine. WoW and DeusEX are probably the most graphic intensive games that I play.

Ideally i'd have ATI and Intel in this chassis. I love the 15" 4:3 laptops. They are comfortable, and look awesome.

I will be upgrading the LCD when time and the economy permit. At this point in time, my current financial situation does not have room for an LCD upgrade. I do take comfort knowing that it can be done, the parts are available and the forum is here for help should it be needed. Until then: All good things come to those who wait.

[Johan]

Having a warranty sounds pretty darn nice though. How much does it cost to extend it? $100/yr or something?

Since the eBay-T60p you bought (a 2007-94U) came with a three-year warranty (check the ltwbook - see page 136 of 283) you have the option of extending the warranty for another two years, through purchasing e.g. the EZServ extension with Lenovo P/N 41C9180 which is a "ThinkPlus 5-year P&L P/U Depot"; see the lwtbook, lower right corner of the page mentioned above. Links to where the 41C9180 can be found for only $150 is found in the thread T42 and T43/ Extend warranty or not extend warranty. There are also warranty-extension options/upgrades to OnSite-warranty, but that is of course quite a bit more expensive...

Johan

[Cunha]

Beautiful machine. Let me know how usable you find the 1600 by 1200 to be. I think SXGA+ is what I would want for myself with a 15 inch 4:3.

I am looking for a T60 15 inch with XGA for my mother who has a hard time viewing anything but huge text and Icons. Its a shame 15 inch 4:3s and all 4:3s are gone. Just a good size.

[BeeJayEmm]

I believe the eBay listing said your T60P had 1GB of RAM. If you haven't considered increasing it, as yak hinted, I would max it out before deciding whether or not to upgrade the CPU. Nice catch; the machine looks great!

[bmwman91]

Don't get me worng, the GMA is no slouch for my uses. It does everything photoshop asks of it, play movies fine and runs all my games fine. WoW and DeusEX are probably the most graphic intensive games that I play.

Ideally i'd have ATI and Intel in this chassis. I love the 15" 4:3 laptops. They are comfortable, and look awesome.

I will be upgrading the LCD when time and the economy permit. At this point in time, my current financial situation does not have room for an LCD upgrade. I do take comfort knowing that it can be done, the parts are available and the forum is here for help should it be needed. Until then: All good things come to those who wait.

Aaaaah hahahaha.....and I thought I was the only one left with a love for Deus Ex! I don't play games at all anymore, haven't in years. BUT, I still play Deus Ex through probably once a year. Check out the Zodiac expansion for DX if you haven't already. It is free, as big as the original Deus Ex game, and as well built (I think the map makers for DX made the pack). Super awesome storyline!

[bmwman91]

Beautiful machine. Let me know how usable you find the 1600 by 1200 to be. I think SXGA+ is what I would want for myself with a 15 inch 4:3.

I am looking for a T60 15 inch with XGA for my mother who has a hard time viewing anything but huge text and Icons. Its a shame 15 inch 4:3s and all 4:3s are gone. Just a good size.

I had a UXGA T43p at my last company. It seemed a little small at first, but I came to love it. The 1980x1220 or whatever screen on my T61p at my current job is DEFINITELY too small. I should have gone with the 1680x1050 screen, oh well. The viewing angle on the T61p is less than that of my personal T41p, and generally is not as vibrant. I guess they are finding cheaper suppliers for their LCD's these days or something, because my T41p's TFT screen looks a lot better. Well, that and the T41p's screen is not loose, and the battery doesn't jiggle like the T61p's. I sort of wish IBM still owned Thinkpad sometimes.

[bmwman91]

I believe the eBay listing said your T60P had 1GB of RAM. If you haven't considered increasing it, as yak hinted, I would max it out before deciding whether or not to upgrade the CPU. Nice catch; the machine looks great!

Yeah, an upgrade is planned. I will be heading to my local electronics store (Fry's) once I get the unit. 2GB of name-brand PC5300 DDR2 is <=$30US, which is pretty reasonable.

[Temetka]

Don't get me worng, the GMA is no slouch for my uses. It does everything photoshop asks of it, play movies fine and runs all my games fine. WoW and DeusEX are probably the most graphic intensive games that I play.

Ideally i'd have ATI and Intel in this chassis. I love the 15" 4:3 laptops. They are comfortable, and look awesome.

I will be upgrading the LCD when time and the economy permit. At this point in time, my current financial situation does not have room for an LCD upgrade. I do take comfort knowing that it can be done, the parts are available and the forum is here for help should it be needed. Until then: All good things come to those who wait.

Aaaaah hahahaha.....and I thought I was the only one left with a love for Deus Ex! I don't play games at all anymore, haven't in years. BUT, I still play Deus Ex through probably once a year. Check out the Zodiac expansion for DX if you haven't already. It is free, as big as the original Deus Ex game, and as well built (I think the map makers for DX made the pack). Super awesome storyline!

I was unaware of that expansion. Thanks for pointing it out to me. One of the reasons I still play DeusEx is because of the storyline, and I am a bit of a conspiracy theory guy myself. It's like someone wrote a game just for me!

[jimmy274]

Ok, T60 rules when compared to T4x series, but... It seems that IBM/Lenovo never really understood how ATi Radeons work - Driver issues on T60s are the only downside. So, depending on which driver you install, you might see the issue I'm talking about - when starting any kind of DVD/DivX etc. the laptop freezes to death (black screen, only power button helps). I've been able to fix the issue only with Mobility Modder software, which converts standard ATi drivers to Mobility drivers... Good luck.

[bmwman91]

Ok, T60 rules when compared to T4x series, but... It seems that IBM/Lenovo never really understood how ATi Radeons work - Driver issues on T60s are the only downside. So, depending on which driver you install, you might see the issue I'm talking about - when starting any kind of DVD/DivX etc. the laptop freezes to death (black screen, only power button helps). I've been able to fix the issue only with Mobility Modder software, which converts standard ATi drivers to Mobility drivers... Good luck.

Hmm, well I guess that'll feel just like my T41p. I had to mes around with the ISV drivers a bunch. Eventually, I ended up using the Omage driver packs to get higher resolution output for an external monitor, and everything worked almost perfectly from there (lets you use the latest catalyst drivers). The only issue I had was that it caused Thinkvantage System Configuration to hard-lock on startup, but there really isn't anything super important in there anyway.

[dr_st]

I also use Radeon Omega Drivers on both the T42 and the T60. They work fine, except on the T60, for some reason, they conflict with the presentation director, and do not allow me to set extended desktop through Fn+F7, only by manually going to the Windows desktop properties.

[bmwman91]

I also use Radeon Omega Drivers on both the T42 and the T60. They work fine, except on the T60, for some reason, they conflict with the presentation director, and do not allow me to set extended desktop through Fn+F7, only by manually going to the Windows desktop properties.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Luckily, docking & un-docking worked properly so I didn't have to mess with Fn-F7 much.

[Troels]

Well, that and the T41p's screen is not loose, and the battery doesn't jiggle like the T61p's. I sort of wish IBM still owned Thinkpad sometimes.

AFAIK, the fit of battery on T4x series only depends on who the manufacturer of the battery pack is. If it is Sanyo it jiggles, Panasonics do not. I have a Sanyo in my T60p and it jiggles slightly. The Sanyo i had in my T42 also jiggles. I don't recall how well Sony battery packs fit.

Ok, T60 rules when compared to T4x series, but... It seems that IBM/Lenovo never really understood how ATi Radeons work - Driver issues on T60s are the only downside. So, depending on which driver you install, you might see the issue I'm talking about - when starting any kind of DVD/DivX etc. the laptop freezes to death (black screen, only power button helps). I've been able to fix the issue only with Mobility Modder software, which converts standard ATi drivers to Mobility drivers... Good luck.

AMD/ATi does not seem to understand how to write efficient drivers for their Radeons either. My findings for the FireGL is that the current drivers are slow and buggy, while the best is over a year old. It's somewhat of a disgrace to sit with such powerfull hardware with 256 bit ring bus memory controller and GDDR3 and be limited by AMDs willingness of creating extremely efficient drivers. nVidia has a great lead here - it's impressive how relatively well a low-end 64 bit memory interface can perform with their drivers...

[bmwman91]

Well, that and the T41p's screen is not loose, and the battery doesn't jiggle like the T61p's. I sort of wish IBM still owned Thinkpad sometimes.

AFAIK, the fit of battery on T4x series only depends on who the manufacturer of the battery pack is. If it is Sanyo it jiggles, Panasonics do not. I have a Sanyo in my T60p and it jiggles slightly. The Sanyo i had in my T42 also jiggles. I don't recall how well Sony battery packs fit.

Ok, T60 rules when compared to T4x series, but... It seems that IBM/Lenovo never really understood how ATi Radeons work - Driver issues on T60s are the only downside. So, depending on which driver you install, you might see the issue I'm talking about - when starting any kind of DVD/DivX etc. the laptop freezes to death (black screen, only power button helps). I've been able to fix the issue only with Mobility Modder software, which converts standard ATi drivers to Mobility drivers... Good luck.

AMD/ATi does not seem to understand how to write efficient drivers for their Radeons either. My findings for the FireGL is that the current drivers are slow and buggy, while the best is over a year old. It's somewhat of a disgrace to sit with such powerfull hardware with 256 bit ring bus memory controller and GDDR3 and be limited by AMDs willingness of creating extremely efficient drivers. nVidia has a great lead here - it's impressive how relatively well a low-end 64 bit memory interface can perform with their drivers...

Interesting...can you recommend a specific driver version that ou have found to be stable, and faster than current stuff?

[Troels]

I tend to forget the driver versions, but i believe this is overally the best: http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/p ... -1-xp.html

Either that one or the most current driver:
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/firepro-xp.html (per today)

All driver versions inbetween miss a certain call, which stops http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=50127 (the non-Ati fix version) from running. http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=50144 really illustrates the difference between different drivers - the 8.391 seems to fair best overall, while the current driver is much more sluggish in the scenes half-way into it.

Any of these drivers from ATI must be modified by the mobility modder - since it is normally up to the OEMs to equip laptop owners with drivers: http://www.driverheaven.net/modtool.php