Thinkpads Forum

Posted: **Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:24 pm**

I was wondering if someone can give me some advice.

My Thinkpad is a 14" T60 with an SXGA+ screen. This configuration is hard to find: all the new laptops seem to have wide screens.

Being reluctant to give up my "work horse", I was wondering if someone could tell me if a Core 2 Duo processor can be swapped out in place of the existing Core Duo processor.

The exact model is 2007-62U. What I would like to do is upgrade the processor to the fastest Core 2 Duo that this machine will support. I already have 2GB RAM, and I am considering swapping the 2x 1GB SODIMM for 2x 2GB SODIMM: am I correct in my understanding that Windows XP will only see 3GB?

If anyone has some ideas how I can give my aging friend a new lease on life, I would appreciate any suggestions.

Please & Thanks....

Robert

Posted: **Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:12 pm**

C2D T7600 is the fastest processor that will work with your T60.

XP will only use 3 gb. 64 bit OS's will recognize all 4 gb's.

Brad

Posted: **Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:12 pm**

The same thing here - used to have T2400, and now it's T7200. The thing is, for Core2Duo processor to work, you'll need to have a revision 3.0 or above motherboard. To see whether you have it - download CPU-Z and run it. Go to Motherboard tab, and after Chipset info you'll see Rev: (mine says Rev: 03) - this is the revision of your board.
I would suggest that you use some of the T7200/7400/7600, since you're already buying a new CPU - T5xxx are also an option, as long as they run on 667 MHz. I'm not sure about stepping limitations, but I think that there aren't any - someone correct me if I'm wrong.
If you want the fastest - go with T7600, but I think that they do tend to generate a lot of heat. Anyway, T7600 is the fastest Core2Duo for T60/p laptops.
You are correct about the RAM - 3gb is the max - I use Value Kingstons PC5300 (or 667MHz) - 2gb+1gb, and they work well. I think you can use PC6400 ones too, but they'll run on 667MHz (because of the FSB of the processor/chipset). You can use 2x2gb, but you'll be able to use only 3gb (but you'll have the symmetric dual-channel which is better than asymmetric (2gb+1gb) about 5% on tests and about 0% in reality).
So far that's it - I don't think that T60s can go further than this with performance...

Posted: **Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:13 pm**

Everything stated above by the others is correct assuming you have BIOS 2.01 or higher. If your BIOS is a lower version, then update the BIOS before you change the processor.

Posted: **Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:15 pm**

Brad wrote:C2D T7600 is the fastest processor that will work with your T60.

XP will only use 3 gb. 64 bit OS's will recognize all 4 gb's.

Brad

A 64 bit OS may recognize 4 GB. However, it still can only use 3GB with a T60(p), see also the sticky in this forum:

the T60 and T60p are based off of the intel socket M processors. no matter how much memory you install in these thinkpads, only 3GB will be addressable regardless of operating system used. this is a physical limitation and there is absolutely no workaround.

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:24 am**

I used to be in exact situration as yours. I've a 14" T60 sxga+ with core solo cpu. I've upgraded to T7200 cpu, 3 Gb ram ( 1 stick of 2 Gb, and 1 stick of 1 Gb ), Hitachi 7k200 100Gb HD. I choose T7200 cpu not only because of price, but also much less heat generated compare to T7600 while real life performance difference is small. As basketb have mentioned, T60 is limited to 3Gb ram due to chipset limit.

Now if you REALLY want to max out this lovely machine, one option is to pop in a ssd. Even with T60's SATA I limitation, you should still see HUGE performance gain.

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:18 am**

Alas, since your CPU is a T2500, you have to upgrade to a T7400/T7600 to see any practical performance gain, and these CPUs are still pricey (especially a T7600).

A T7200 is likely to be a very small upgrade, hardly justifying the price. Anything else (T5500/T5600) would be a downgrade.

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:08 am**

jimmy274 wrote:...for Core2Duo processor to work, you'll need to have a revision 3.0 or above motherboard. To see whether you have it - download CPU-Z and run it. Go to Motherboard tab, and after Chipset info you'll see Rev: (mine says Rev: 03) - this is the revision of your board.
...

The motherboard revision number has been repeatedly addressed when the topic of upgrading T60/p to C2D is discussed. But so far I'v never seen and heard that any T60/p has a different motherboard revision number other than Rev: 03. Interesting.

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:24 pm**

Thanks for all the answers.

Now my dilemma is whether it is Worth the investment? Checking eBay, i can get T7600 CPU for about $250USD. With the Canadian dollar falling in value, that will push the price up to about $300. As for more memory, I can get that cheap.

As for a solid state drive, I pretty much use the entire 360GB that is presently installed. A solid state drive is simply not practical.

What I would really like to find is a T61 with a 14" SXGA+ screen and a faster processor. I spend a lot of time on the road, and the size, weight and battery life make this the ideal travel companion.

For a second extremely portable machine, I have an Asus Eee. It is the 1000 series with 40GB SSD and it is upgraded to 2GB RAM. However, while it is great for watching movies during a flight, or for running from meeting to meeting, it just doesn't have the chops to do all of the tasks of a real day's work.

I don't imagine I am the only IT consultant that prefers a standard 1400x1050 screen in a 14" size. With what I do, I already drag enough along. I neither want nor need the extra weight.

So the question is - "is it worth the price of the upgrade" and "what sort of performance gains will I see?".

Thank you to everyone who has replied to this topic

Robert

BTW - I do have a Rev.3 motherboard and the newest Bios.

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:55 pm**

Well, T61 supports T9xxx processor which also comes with 6Mb, so you should see noticeable performance gain. It also supports 4Gb ram ( 2 x 2Gb sticks ), and likely 8Gb ( 2 x 4 Gb sticks ). If you plan to swap in a SATA II SSD in future, both T60/T61's HD interface is tune down to SATA I standard and you won't realize the full potential of the latest SSD drives ( but still much faster than traditional hd ).

If I plan to run XP in forseeable future, then I'll probably stay with T60, but if I plan to upgrade to Vista and Windows 7 ( 64bit ), then T61 or even T400 would be a better fit. I've also moved from 14" sxga+ T60 to T400 and one thing I missed most is 4:3 high res screen. The trade off is T400 offers faster processor, cooler running, longer battery run time, (much) brighter screen, and full SATA II, and roll cage on the LCD screen.

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:40 pm**

I guess to be more specific, will I see a noticeable improvement in speed (and battery life) if i upgrade from my existing T2500 CPU to a T7600?

Would there be a noticeable difference? Can anyone make an educated guess as to how much faster a T7600 CPU is versus my current T2500?

Spending $300 to get a some better performance doesn't seem like to much of an investment, if, and only if there is a noticeable difference.

Thanks again to everyone for their input.

Robert

Posted: **Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:10 am**

I think you will see any performance gain from T2500 to T7600 only if you game or program a lot (because of the larger L2 cache). However, again because of the greater L2 cache, your battery life may get slightly shorter (maybe about 10-20 min

). Now, regarding the cpu performance gain, you can try following: if your machine is still equipped with the T2500, run 3DMark06 and take a note of the cpu scores. I´ll run it on my machine and will post my results (I have a T7400, but the difference to the T7600 is AFAIK marginal in this test). Then you will have some exact numbers (I think although this test is designed for gaming, it would be suitable for your purpose because it likes L2 cache...). I only hope that the OS won´t make a big difference to the cpu results (it does to the gpu results though...).

As others have already pointed out, one advantage of the Core 2 Duo is the ability to run x64 OS. It will not change the amount of addressable RAM, but might bring for you some other performance benefits proceeding from the x64 architecture.

Marin

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:28 am**

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I was hoping to confirm that my motherboard's revision number is 03 in my T60p before I take the plunge and buy a T7400 or T7600 processor. I'm running Ubuntu 9.04 currently and don't have a dual boot. So I ran the CPU-Z tool in a VM running WinXP. These are the screenshots:

Screenshot of Motherboard tab

Screenshot of cpu tab

However, in linux, running the lshw command, I get a lot of info displayed, with this section of the output being of interest:

Code: Select all

     *-pci
          description: Host bridge
          product: Mobile 945GM/PM/GMS, 943/940GML and 945GT Express Memory Cont
roller Hub
          vendor: Intel Corporation
          physical id: 100
          bus info: pci@0000:00:00.0
          version: 03
          width: 32 bits
          clock: 33MHz
        *-pci:0
             description: PCI bridge
             product: Mobile 945GM/PM/GMS, 943/940GML and 945GT Express PCI Expr
ess Root Port
             vendor: Intel Corporation
             physical id: 1
             bus info: pci@0000:00:01.0
             version: 03                       <----------------------------------------------------------------
             width: 32 bits
             clock: 33MHz
             capabilities: pci pm msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list
             configuration: driver=pcieport-driver
           *-display UNCLAIMED
                description: VGA compatible controller
                product: M56GL [Mobility FireGL V5200]
                vendor: ATI Technologies Inc
                physical id: 0
                bus info: pci@0000:01:00.0
                version: 00
                width: 32 bits
                clock: 33MHz
                capabilities: pm pciexpress msi bus_master cap_list
                configuration: latency=0

There are a lot of other sections where the version is 02, such as these:

Code: Select all

        *-pci:2
             description: PCI bridge
             product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) PCI Express Port 2
             vendor: Intel Corporation
             physical id: 1c.1
             bus info: pci@0000:00:1c.1
             version: 02
             width: 32 bits
             clock: 33MHz
             capabilities: pci pciexpress msi pm bus_master cap_list
             configuration: driver=pcieport-driver
           *-network
                description: Wireless interface
                product: PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network Connection
                vendor: Intel Corporation
                physical id: 0
                bus info: pci@0000:03:00.0
                logical name: wmaster0
                version: 02
                serial: 00:19:d2:76:39:a8
                width: 32 bits
                clock: 33MHz
                capabilities: pm msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list logical ethe
rnet physical wireless
                configuration: broadcast=yes driver=iwl3945 ip=192.168.0.100 lat
ency=0 module=iwl3945 multicast=yes wireless=IEEE 802.11abg
        *-pci:3
             description: PCI bridge
             product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) PCI Express Port 3
             vendor: Intel Corporation
             physical id: 1c.2
             bus info: pci@0000:00:1c.2
             version: 02
             width: 32 bits
             clock: 33MHz
             capabilities: pci pciexpress msi pm bus_master cap_list
             configuration: driver=pcieport-driver
        *-pci:4
             description: PCI bridge
             product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) PCI Express Port 4
             vendor: Intel Corporation
             physical id: 1c.3
             bus info: pci@0000:00:1c.3
             version: 02
             width: 32 bits
             clock: 33MHz
             capabilities: pci pciexpress msi pm bus_master cap_list
             configuration: driver=pcieport-driver
        *-usb:0
             description: USB Controller
             product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB UHCI Controller #1
             vendor: Intel Corporation
             physical id: 1d
             bus info: pci@0000:00:1d.0
             version: 02
             width: 32 bits
             clock: 33MHz
             capabilities: bus_master
             configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=0 module=uhci_hcd

Does anyone know of any other linux tools that explicitly state the motherboard's revision number like cpu-z in windows does? I'm hoping the VM (VirtualBox) executed CPU-Z tool misreported the revision number of my motherboard. I've tried other linux commands like dmesg, hinv, lspci, dmidecode and could not deduce a rev number. Short of cracking open the TP and looking inside, I'm not sure what else to do.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:44 am**

What does 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' show?
'sudo dmidecode —type 2' ?

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:25 am**

creed wrote:Short of cracking open the TP and looking inside, I'm not sure what else to do.

Have you tried CPU-Z under Wine? It has a bronze rating.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:11 am**

With 99% probabilty your board is OK for the Core Duo swap. Ver. 03 in CPU-Z under windows relates to the i945PM Chipset itself. Besides, ver. 02 is very rare.

I can report of successful T2500-- T7200 upgrade. I'm not sure if it is worth the money, but I feel happier

I can see the difference in Lightroom. The 7600 is hot, expensive, and unobtainable. The 7400 is probably the best choice, but I could not find it in time. Besides, there are reports of overheating 7400 with standard fan T60p on this board. My idle temps are 48-52, up to 90 under load - a bit hot really. Fan noise is as before - runs constanly on low and does not bother me for now. I have not noticed an increase in noise. Mine is a 15" btw.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:26 am**

I have done the upgrade from a t2600 to a t7600...my idle temp is 45 without any undervolting etc.

Max temp has been 79.

So I am not seeing heat as an issue. I have the 14 inch t60p.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:43 pm**

Speaking of which, my T61P has a T7250 @2GHz Core 2 Duo.

Is it feasible to upgrade that, and if so, how much faster does a how much more expensive C2D cpu run? From what source?

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:25 pm**

Upgrading the CPU is almost never worth the time/effort unless you've got a need to run CPU intensive apps all the time. For general usage like Internet, Office and Media, the better CPU will make little difference as those don't push the CPU enough to where you'd notice a difference. Though your system is capped, a SSD upgrade is more likely to make your system seem more responsive than a CPU upgrade. Aside from that, the CPU upgrade is easy enough to do. You just need to remove the palm rest, keyboard and keyboard bezel to gain access to the CPU. The CPU is socketed. There should be no trouble replacing it. You could go up to the T7700.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:33 pm**

Thanks, Fred. The 7700 isn't all that much faster. SSDs are still a bit pricey and (oink) I keep half of my 500GB drive for media so I'm not in a hurry to upgrade to a smaller SSD drive. Time to be patient and wait a bit longer, I guess.

The only things that really bug me about speed are odd ones: Sometimes Windows Mail will take forever to open or to open something. (ok, 5-10 seconds, but that's forever compared to what it usually takes) and almost ALL the time, Adobe's [censored] Acrobrat (9, full) takes forever the first time a PDF is opened. Preloaded, prefetched, or not, it can take 30? seconds to open a PDF the first time and of course the whole system bogs down during that time if I try to do anything else.

For lack of a better solution (and for the times when i really am doing four things at once) I thought I might be able to throw more cpu at everything, but I guess not just yet.

Posted: **Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:36 pm**

Those things are more likely the hard drive as it waits for data to be read from the drive than the CPU. One option would be if you're not using the optical drive much, would be to buy a smaller SSD, then put your 500GB drive in the ultrabay.

Posted: **Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:24 pm**

Fred, I appreciate what you are saying but there's no way these delays could be from hd reads. Way way too long to be a drive read issue. In Adobe's case I'd suspect it is going out on the web--they do that even when told not to--but for Mail...no idea what's up, only that it bears looking into "one of these days" around here.

Posted: **Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:36 pm**

Any disk errors in the event log? eventvwr.msc->Custom Views->Administrative Events

Posted: **Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:17 pm**

Very interesting. I have no idea if it was related to one of those times, but I did see a recent error that is related to Windows Mail, I think, from the edb file? :

Windows (3584) Windows: A request to write to the file "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Search\Data\Applications\Windows\Windows.edb" at offset 167108608 (0x0000000009f5e000) for 8192 (0x00002000) bytes succeeded, but took an abnormally long time (20658 seconds) to be serviced by the OS. In addition, 0 other I/O requests to this file have also taken an abnormally long time to be serviced since the last message regarding this problem was posted 285951 seconds ago. This problem is likely due to faulty hardware. Please contact your hardware vendor for further assistance diagnosing the problem.

Any idea what that means besides "play stump the stars with Lenono support" ?

Posted: **Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:26 am**

It's new HDD and clean reinstall time

Seriously, your drive is about to go south. Backup now, no, yesterday. A new 7200 drive will be a better performance improvement than a new proc. btw.

Posted: **Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:14 pm**

Ah, thanks but this IS a new drive, a Seagate Momentus only 3-4 months old. The problem existed on the previous drive as well.

Not that a new Seagate means anything...it took them a total of four drives before one would format up and verify properly on installation.

Posted: **Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:18 pm**

So I pulled the trigger and picked up a Core 2 Duo T7600 on ebay for a good price. Installed it a few days ago and it was immediately recognized and shown in the POST display. No issues so far and am running x86_64 Xubuntu 9.10 quite nicely. I also installed an Intel X25-M 160GB SSD and maxed out the memory to 3GB. Wow, this machine runs fast!

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