How to get highiest possible sound quality in Lenovo ?

[Wind]

My T60 hybrid has Win7. I would like to get highiest possible sound quality for listening music.
I mean so called "audiophile" quality. How to do that, starting with genuine CD ? I use J. River Media Jukebox and I RIP my CDs with loseless mode (say 800KB/s-1.1GB/s) but I rip using regular desktop DVD player and than transfer my music on laptop with flash usb. I use Audio-Technica headphones, which is icon brand in my opinion. Is that the best way ? OK, I can rip no compression 1 to 1 from CD but does that make any difference that I will hear ? Are desktop computer DVD players capable to do the job-to read CD and send top possible quality music signal ??? Or I should connect HIFI CD player to laptop in some way and "record" on my laptop HDD what CD player reads 1 to 1 ?
I noticed my new Onkyo DVD player (for TV, nothing to do with computers) has some USB in front...did not have time to read the manual to find out what is that USB for, but maybe I can plug something into that and use Onkyo to "read" music CDs with top quality (Onkyo claims my player delivers audiophile quality sound) ? I also noticed there are express card sound cards for laptops (Creative) or even USB sound card (Creative too)-not cheap...its OK if that is the way to get what I want but no idea if that is the way to go...did anybody try ?

[yak]

The audio is stored on a CD in digital form. The quality of a digital signal deteriorates in two cases: during digital-analog conversion and during lossy compression. This means your best option to preserve quality is to rip the disc on a PC which ensures it will stay digital during the process (as opposed for example to connecting a Hi-Fi equipment to Line-In of the PC) and to compress it using a lossless audio compression algorithm like FLAC. The final step to enjoy the quality would be to a use a good sound card. I'm not an expert here but you may want to look at these ExpressCard/USB sound cards, the one built into a ThinkPad is probably nothing special - ThinkPads are business notebooks after all.

[Wind]

Thanks yak !
I am going to try FLAC and will do some research about these sound cards...

[pae77]

I've been wanting to buy an upgraded external sound card for my T61p but I don't want to get something that cannot be used for the next laptop I will be eventually getting. So something that uses PCMCIA is out because as I understand it, it's already an obsolete interface. I'm not sure about Express Card, but maybe that's already on the way out too? I suppose the safest bet would be something that's USB based, but I don't really know. If anyone has any suggestions for an external sound card that would be transferable to the next laptop and would provide enhanced audio quality, I'd be most interested.

[Dale H. Cook]

If anyone has any suggestions for an external sound card that would be transferable to the next laptop and would provide enhanced audio quality, I'd be most interested.

I use a Tascam US-122, which is USB. It has balanced line/mic inputs, IHF outputs, and a 1/4" headphone jack with volume control.

[proaudioguy]

First let me say you are getting good information here. I have had mixed results with various thinkpads, but all in all better results than most other laptops. The world of AUDIOPHILE is full of BS. There is much snake oil sales in that world. I live in the REAL world of high quality audio. Don't waste your money on monster cable, etc. Copper is copper and the short lengths we use in our home theater don't require anything over 12 gauge. Professionals use SJ and SO. The weak links in your setup are
A. any sort of compression, IOW rip the audio as WAV worst case, if you want the best quality.
B. your headphones. Transducers in general are a large variable. I suggest AKG K240S, some of the higher end Sennheisers, Sony 7509HD (what I use for work), or some of the electrostatic varieties. I do not recommend BOSE for ANYTHING. (better sound through litigation) (no highs, no lows, must be bose). The sound from your speakers is NOT supposed to sound like it's coming from everywhere. It's supposed to sound like it sounded int he studio where it was mixed. Hint, they are not using BOSE. As far as home theater speakers are concerned, look for high quality speakers with relatively flat phase response and good axial response with smooth off axis response. You are going to pay for power handling and visual beauty, but the other attributes are just good design. If you are very discriminating, I recommend Meyer Sound HD1s. They make the top of the line sound reinforcement speakers, and each of the HD1s are tuned by an actual human to sound and measure exactly the same as every other HD1. HINT speaker transducers made in Asia tend to sound like crap (unless they are really good copies). You're chance of getting good sounding speakers is increased if you look to Europe, the UK, or the USA.

The sound card D to A (DA) converters AND the headphone amp are pretty much all that's left. A really good set of cans or speakers are going to reveal the problems with your sound card, but it won't matter much if youa re using any compression. Headphone amps are easy, but if you want to get tweaky there are companies that just make high end amps. For an all around good quality laptop unit the Sound Devices USB Pre is fine. I have heard positive remarks about the Tascam unit mentioned above. I use a MOTU 8pre and it sounds quite good. Again if you are listening to mp3s it doesn't matter what else you use, they will sound like crap. In fact you are better off listening to mp3s on lower end ear buds because they will tend to hide some of the issues. That being said I use 320 for my mp3 rips and I use these rips for walk in and walk out music. Of course no one is "listening". It's just background music while people are finding there seats.

Now for a quick rant,......
What ever happened to using the DVD disc for 96K 24Bit stereo audio? Instead of getting higher quality with technology we have gone for lower quality? TBs of storage are CHEAP so why are we stuck with mp3s? Even the guy that invented the mp3 said the project wasn't finished when the format took over and it was never meant to replace high quality audio. I guess it's Napster's fault. My teenager doesn't have a clue what good sound is. She is content listening to her crappy earbuds or the speakers on her laptop. I plugged her iPod into the home stereo and half the mp3s were distorted, but the ones that were clean sounded better than she had ever heard them. Mediocrity isn't necessary.

[bmwman91]

First let me say you are getting good information here. I have had mixed results with various thinkpads, but all in all better results than most other laptops. The world of AUDIOPHILE is full of BS. There is much snake oil sales in that world. I live in the REAL world of high quality audio. Don't waste your money on monster cable, etc. Copper is copper and the short lengths we use in our home theater don't require anything over 12 gauge. Professionals use SJ and SO. The weak links in your setup are
A. any sort of compression, IOW rip the audio as WAV worst case, if you want the best quality.
B. your headphones. Transducers in general are a large variable. I suggest AKG K240S, some of the higher end Sennheisers, Sony 7509HD (what I use for work), or some of the electrostatic varieties. I do not recommend BOSE for ANYTHING. (better sound through litigation) (no highs, no lows, must be bose). The sound from your speakers is NOT supposed to sound like it's coming from everywhere. It's supposed to sound like it sounded int he studio where it was mixed. Hint, they are not using BOSE. As far as home theater speakers are concerned, look for high quality speakers with relatively flat phase response and good axial response with smooth off axis response. You are going to pay for power handling and visual beauty, but the other attributes are just good design. If you are very discriminating, I recommend Meyer Sound HD1s. They make the top of the line sound reinforcement speakers, and each of the HD1s are tuned by an actual human to sound and measure exactly the same as every other HD1. HINT speaker transducers made in Asia tend to sound like crap (unless they are really good copies). You're chance of getting good sounding speakers is increased if you look to Europe, the UK, or the USA.

The sound card D to A (DA) converters AND the headphone amp are pretty much all that's left. A really good set of cans or speakers are going to reveal the problems with your sound card, but it won't matter much if youa re using any compression. Headphone amps are easy, but if you want to get tweaky there are companies that just make high end amps. For an all around good quality laptop unit the Sound Devices USB Pre is fine. I have heard positive remarks about the Tascam unit mentioned above. I use a MOTU 8pre and it sounds quite good. Again if you are listening to mp3s it doesn't matter what else you use, they will sound like crap. In fact you are better off listening to mp3s on lower end ear buds because they will tend to hide some of the issues. That being said I use 320 for my mp3 rips and I use these rips for walk in and walk out music. Of course no one is "listening". It's just background music while people are finding there seats.

Now for a quick rant,......
What ever happened to using the DVD disc for 96K 24Bit stereo audio? Instead of getting higher quality with technology we have gone for lower quality? TBs of storage are CHEAP so why are we stuck with mp3s? Even the guy that invented the mp3 said the project wasn't finished when the format took over and it was never meant to replace high quality audio. I guess it's Napster's fault. My teenager doesn't have a clue what good sound is. She is content listening to her crappy earbuds or the speakers on her laptop. I plugged her iPod into the home stereo and half the mp3s were distorted, but the ones that were clean sounded better than she had ever heard them. Mediocrity isn't necessary.

Good post! I share your frustration with the direction audio has gone. Quantity over quality...I never used to think MP3's were any different than lossless if they were at least 256kbps, but wow was I wrong! Once I got into real audio stuff, I heard the difference, deleted all my MP3's & started buying used CD's & ripping to FLAC!

In the past year I have gotten heavily into "hi-fi" audio, and have ended up constructing my own 2-way monitors & am finishing a sub that is flat in response to 17Hz. My FIRST considerations regarding any of this were with respect to the source. Using the onboard Analog Devices audio processor was not an option. Way too much EMI is transmitted into the analog audio stream from the other components in the laptop. At first I was looking at the Echo Indigo cards, but the design was really optimized for headphones (look into them), not connection to a large home hi-fi setup. Finally, I determined that I would like to have something via USB so that it could plug into my dock & not need disconnecting every time I removed the laptop. After much research, I settled upon the M-Audio Fast Track Pro (got one on Craigslist for $100, barely used). Granted, I can also plug my guitar into it & it is overkill for headphone use, but it is a very nice unit! There is NO hiss or other noise when turned all the way up with nothing playing. You should watch out when it powers on/off though as it shoots some nasty transients. Make sure that any amp's plugged into it are off when it turns on/off, & that headphones are unplugged.

Cliffs:
- Ditch MP3's, AAC, any other type of LOSSY format. LOSSLESS or uncompressed only! Don't spend a dime on anything until you do this. And NO, you cannot convert an MP3 to FLAC/lossless. Once the data is gone, it is gone. You'll need actual CD's to rip or listen to. This is one of the many ways audio gets pricey as a hobby!
- Use an external DSP unit to convert the digital audio information into the analog signal for your cans.

[Marie-Anne]

Folks, I need your expert advise!

I've basically chosen for the purchase of the Beyer Dynamic DT770 Pro, which seems to be aurally equal or better than the Sony 7509HD.

However, this unit is available in a 250 Ohm and 80 Ohm version.

Please advise which version is required to be connected to my dedicated sound card of my PC or my Thinkpad T60.

Anyone there who has any experience with the DT770 Pro, and willing to inform me about his/her experiences?

Thanks in advance for your expert advise!

Best regards form The Netherlands,

Marie-Anne

[blueangel9]

A headphone having that amount of resistance would probably need an additional amp. If you don't want the expense of an amp get a 32ohm headphone. I know Beyerdynamic has a 32ohm model.

[Marie-Anne]

@blueangel9

Thank you for your advise, blueangel9

I'll contact the Dutch distributor for the 32 Ohm version.

What is your opinion of these cans? Strengths/weaknesses?

[proaudioguy]

Folks, I need your expert advise!

I've basically chosen for the purchase of the Beyer Dynamic DT770 Pro, which seems to be aurally equal or better than the Sony 7509HD.

However, this unit is available in a 250 Ohm and 80 Ohm version.

Please advise which version is required to be connected to my dedicated sound card of my PC or my Thinkpad T60.

Anyone there who has any experience with the DT770 Pro, and willing to inform me about his/her experiences?

Thanks in advance for your expert advise!

Best regards form The Netherlands,

Marie-Anne

250 Ohm will work great if you plug it straight into the speaker terminals on a 100Watt per channel amp! IOW, you need to go with the 80 Ohm or lower if you can.

[blueangel9]

I happen to own a beyerdynamic dt880. It's great for vocals and jazz, but for classical music I find it lacking. I personally use a AKG k701 (with an amp) exclusively for listening to classical music. When it comes down to it, it's really a matter of personal preference.

[Peak2Peak]

...starting with genuine CD ? I use J. River Media Jukebox and I RIP my CDs with loseless mode (say 800KB/s-1.1GB/s) but I rip using regular desktop DVD player and than transfer my music on laptop with flash usb.

For ripping CD's directly from your notebook's/PC's CD/DVD drive straight to HDD, try out Exact Audio Copy (EAC) - It will allow you to rip & store your CD tracks in .WAV or .flac, accurately reading each CD's sector.

There are also a whole host of other feature's which include: Automatic detection of drive features, whether a drive has an accurate stream and/or does caching, Sample offsets for drives with no accurate streams, including the option of filling up missing samples with silence, Hidden sector synchronization (jitter correction) etc.

[proaudioguy]

try out Exact Audio Copy (EAC) -

+1 I totally forgot about EAC.

[Marie-Anne]

Thank you all for your replies!! It was very helpfull and triggered me to look after a dedicated amp!

I've decided now for the Beyer Dynamic DT770 Pro 250 Ohm to be combined with a dedicated amp: the HeadRoom Total BitHead

This amp is offered by http://www.headphone.com
This company is specialised in audiophile headphones, earphones and peripherals.

The emailmessage of one of the very knowledgeable salesmen of this company has helped me with my final decision:

"The impedance rating is based on the efficiency on the audio source you will be using; If employing a dedicated headphone amp, the 250-ohm is desirable for best sound quality performance since it offers the lowest background noise floor. As the impedance drops, the headphones become more sensitive but also more prone to hiss, hum, static, and other line-level signal background noise issues (which depends strictly on your source).
I would suggest using the 'high-gain' setting on the BitHead for best sonic match with any full-size headphone -- regardless of headphone impedance."

[proaudioguy]

Thank you all for your replies!! It was very helpfull and triggered me to look after a dedicated amp!

I've decided now for the Beyer Dynamic DT770 Pro 250 Ohm to be combined with a dedicated amp: the HeadRoom Total BitHead

This amp is offered by http://www.headphone.com
This company is specialised in audiophile headphones, earphones and peripherals.

The emailmessage of one of the very knowledgeable salesmen of this company has helped me with my final decision:

"The impedance rating is based on the efficiency on the audio source you will be using; If employing a dedicated headphone amp, the 250-ohm is desirable for best sound quality performance since it offers the lowest background noise floor. As the impedance drops, the headphones become more sensitive but also more prone to hiss, hum, static, and other line-level signal background noise issues (which depends strictly on your source).
I would suggest using the 'high-gain' setting on the BitHead for best sonic match with any full-size headphone -- regardless of headphone impedance."

That's at worst a LIE, and at the very least misleading. I told you the audiophile world is full of snake oil and BS.
The HISS you would hear in the cans from the SOURCE would be the same at a given SPL no matter what. Higher impedance cans simply need MORE gain at the amp. If the source has a noise floor of x, and it takes 1 watt per channel to get a particular SPL in a 32 Ohm set, and takes 100Watts (@8Ohms) to get the SAME SPL in a set of 250 Ohm cans, the noise floor of "x" will still be whatever SPL it would have been. You cannot increase the signal to noise ratio of your SOURCE by changing the impedance of the cans which aren't even connected to the source. This doesn't mean you won't increase your sound quality by using a high power headphone amp instead of a built in 50 cent part. One of the main reasons for high impedance cans was for studio use. Back in the day, when I was working in that world, we would drive the foldback system with normal power amps. Just about any number of musos could plug in without over loading the amp. The cans we used (and I still have 2 sets) were AKG K240DF, and K240m. These are both 600 Ohms. You could plug in 64 sets before you started loading the amp down too much, but you are also splitting the power available by that number. In practical application we never had more than 12-15 cans connected at once.

I have a good friend that tours with the likes of John Couger, The Who, Coldplay, Earth Wind and Fire, The Killers, Jamie Foxx, etc. He's also an audiophile with a pair of $40k speakers biamped with tube crossovers and class A tube amps in his listening room. He is VERY discriminating. If you PM me, I'll be happy to hook you up with his email. He's a competent audio engineer, and also keeps up with the audiophile community. Perhaps he can give you a recommendation before you spend your hard earned money.

[Dale H. Cook]

That's at worst a LIE, and at the very least misleading. I told you the audiophile world is full of snake oil and BS.

I agree with both of those sentences, based on my 40 years of experience in installing, maintaining, and measuring the performance of audio equipment in a professional environment (broadcasting).

[Marie-Anne]

Well, it took some time, but finally I've done next things:

I've purchased the Shure SE535 earphones and I've heard details in audio tracks I've never heard before, whether it is classical music, jazz, pop, live recorded concerts or whatever. The SE535 contains 3 drivers!

But this is just part of the story. I wanted bit-perfect (WAV-) rips. So I started purchasing the Plextor PX-L890UE drive (it has some flaws, however), and dBpoweramp CD Ripper (which is an audiophile CD-ripper). This combo enabled me to rip at 4x speed. And the rip results are fabulous.

Last but not least: JRiver Media Center. An audiophile frontend, replacing all other audio and video software, I was using in the past. I removed Quick Time, iTunes, VLC Media Player from my system, and I'm not any longer using Windows Media Player. It is possible to choose with JRiver Media Center from different audiophile drivers (such as WASABI, bypassing Windows Media Player's driver). JRiver Media Center processes internally the music stream in 64 bit.
And this also makes a big audible difference!. It makes speed, punch and dynamics of the music clearly audible . It differentiates the bass drum from the bass guitar as well! Deep bass!

So, the combination of this all, makes that I'm enjoying my preferred music more than ever before!

[cadillacmike68]

First let me say you are getting good information here. I have had mixed results with various thinkpads, but all in all better results than most other laptops. The world of AUDIOPHILE is full of BS. There is much snake oil sales in that world. I live in the REAL world of high quality audio. Don't waste your money on monster cable, etc. Copper is copper and the short lengths we use in our home theater don't require anything over 12 gauge. Professionals use SJ and SO. The weak links in your setup are
A. any sort of compression, IOW rip the audio as WAV worst case, if you want the best quality.
B. your headphones. Transducers in general are a large variable. I suggest AKG K240S, some of the higher end Sennheisers, Sony 7509HD (what I use for work), or some of the electrostatic varieties...

Now for a quick rant;
What ever happened to using the DVD disc for 96K 24Bit stereo audio? Instead of getting higher quality with technology we have gone for lower quality? TBs of storage are CHEAP so why are we stuck with mp3s? Even the guy that invented the mp3 said the project wasn't finished when the format took over and it was never meant to replace high quality audio. I guess it's Napster's fault. My teenager doesn't have a clue what good sound is. She is content listening to her crappy earbuds or the speakers on her laptop. I plugged her iPod into the home stereo and half the mp3s were distorted, but the ones that were clean sounded better than she had ever heard them. Mediocrity isn't necessary.

Amen to most of this post!

Except for the part on Bose. I'm not a fan of their headphones (I use AKG K240) but their car audio is quite nice and powerful. And I LIKE the 15 speaker surround sound in my STS!

On the MP3s, yes you can really hear the crappy result of too much compression. I accidently copied a few wrong versions of some songs to some CDs and man i had to go back and re-do the the discs.

[Marie-Anne]

In addition to my Shure ES535, my next purchases will be:

1. FiiO E17 USB DAC Headphone Amplifier (bypassing Thinkpad's built-in audio device)

2. Cowon 2, for mobile listening of my favourite audio files (to be connected to the FiiO E17 as well!)

[ThinkRob]

Except for the part on Bose. I'm not a fan of their headphones (I use AKG K240) but their car audio is quite nice and powerful. And I LIKE the 15 speaker surround sound in my STS!

The main issue I (and others) take with Bose (aside from the ridiculous prices) is that they don't produce accurate equipment. Even mid-range Polk gear will absolutely blow away comparable Bose stuff as far as faithful reproduction is concerned. For a home theatre or a listening room, that makes them a very bad, very overpriced choice.

But car audio is different, compared to those environments. In a car, you have inherently pretty poor acoustics. You have tons of ambient noise. You have wacky listening positions. All of these conditions together mean that inaccurate, really-bloody-far-from-reference sound is something that you *want* if not need to make your listening experience enjoyable. In this case, Bose does a really good job; sure, their car speakers are still pretty screwy as far as quality of reproduction is concerned, but they're inaccurate in a good way and really do a fine job of producing pleasing sound when driving down the interstate at full bore.

So yeah, Bose for car audio? Good choice (pricey, but good.) Bose for anything else... eh, save your money.