Thinkpads Forum

Hey there. I was on the fence for a little while deciding on which Thinkpad I wanted as my primary machine; either my T60p, or my X61s. It was a tough decision as both are excellent machines, but I decided to keep using the T60p for my 'go anywhere, do anything' notebook. However, I have a few questions:

1. I need a lot of hard drive space. 1TB or more would be ideal. I know there are 7200RPM 500GB units out there, but I also see that 5400RPM 640GB drives aren't that much more expensive. SSDs are completely out of the question as I need space a little more than I need speed, and SSDs in capacities I need are far out of my budget. Would I be best off using a 7200RPM 500GB as the primary drive with a 640GB in the Ultrabay, or would there be a benefit to using two 500GB, 7200RPM drives? Storage space is a little preferable than speed, but I'd like some performance. Also, will the Ultrabay SATA device recognize a 500+GB drive?

2. Where would I find/purchase utilities/instructions to clone my current hard drive to a new drive?

3. I'm eventually looking to use the T60p as a full desktop replacement, driving three external displays. I'm assuming the only way to do this would be to use an Advanced Dock with a dual DVI video card? Are there any currently manufactured video cards that can fit and do this(ie: not discontinued models that will be hard to find)? Are there any surprises as far as drivers go, or hiccups if I have an Nvidia card in the dock with the ATI V5250 in my T60p? I'm running Vista x64 and have no plans to upgrade to Win7. Also, any recommendations for decent monitors that won't break the bank, as well as recommendations for keyboards/mice? I've been using notebooks pretty much exclusively for the past six years so I'm very behind on desktop hardware.

4. This is mostly a subjective question I'm posing to T60/p users, but do you feel that this machine still has a decent lifespan ahead of it? I use this system primarily for Internet/Office apps, but use it for slightly older games(Oblivion, Doom 3, Far Cry 2, and a few others) and watching videos as well. I'm also going to start using this system to learn programming(C++, Visual Basic, possibly some Java) on, but I want to make sure I've got at least a few more years' use out of this system before having to move to something else. I know this is a really subjective question, but for those true power users among us, what do you think?

Once again, thanks in advance for any information/advice!

1. The 640GB WD hard drive, despite being 5400rpms, is only marginally slower than a 500GB 7200rpm drive. This is because both hard drives have 2 platters... The 500GB has (2) 250GB platters, and the 640GB has (2) 320GB platters. The data is more tightly 'packed' on the 640GB drive, which means less seeking and similar real world performance. And there are people on here that are using 500GB SATA drives in the Ultrabay Adapter. Since you want to use it as a desktop replacement, have you thought about buying an external hard drive? You can get 1, 1.5, or 2TB, and have it connected via a USB port. If you want similar speed to having an internal HDD, you can opt for a eSATA ExpressCard instead.

2. Norton Ghost is an excellent program for creating a mirror image of your current drive.

3. I'm not familiar with the Advanced Dock, but from my experience, nVidia drivers don't get along well with ATi drivers. Usually when switching from a nVidia to ATi card, or visa versa, I recommend a fresh install of windows. Look on newegg.com or eBay for a half height/low profile ATi video card. Some of them will come as a half height card, others will include separate brackets.

4. The T60p still has a good lifespan ahead of it. The only limitation you face is the 3GB limit on RAM. The dual core CPU is able to handle most games, HD video, and modern flash/java apps. And your graphics performance will depend on the card you install in the advanced dock. For what you want to use it for, it should last another few years.

-Chris

Rofflesaurrr wrote:1. The 640GB WD hard drive, despite being 5400rpms, is only marginally slower than a 500GB 7200rpm drive. This is because both hard drives have 2 platters... The 500GB has (2) 250GB platters, and the 640GB has (2) 320GB platters. The data is more tightly 'packed' on the 640GB drive, which means less seeking and similar real world performance. And there are people on here that are using 500GB SATA drives in the Ultrabay Adapter. Since you want to use it as a desktop replacement, have you thought about buying an external hard drive? You can get 1, 1.5, or 2TB, and have it connected via a USB port. If you want similar speed to having an internal HDD, you can opt for a eSATA ExpressCard instead.

2. Norton Ghost is an excellent program for creating a mirror image of your current drive.

3. I'm not familiar with the Advanced Dock, but from my experience, nVidia drivers don't get along well with ATi drivers. Usually when switching from a nVidia to ATi card, or visa versa, I recommend a fresh install of windows. Look on newegg.com or eBay for a half height/low profile ATi video card. Some of them will come as a half height card, others will include separate brackets.

4. The T60p still has a good lifespan ahead of it. The only limitation you face is the 3GB limit on RAM. The dual core CPU is able to handle most games, HD video, and modern flash/java apps. And your graphics performance will depend on the card you install in the advanced dock. For what you want to use it for, it should last another few years.

-Chris

Excellent... thanks for the info. As far as an external drive goes, I do need some speed out of it and I use my ExpressCard slot all the time. Since I almost never use my optical drive I was figuring I could use a second HDD more than I would my DVD/CDRW. I'm planning on using the T60p as a desktop replacement that's on the move quite a bit, so having more internal data storage is a better bet for me.

I did forget about the data density=speed equation, which definitely helps. If a 5400RPM 640GB is going to be about as fast as a 7200RPM 500GB, it might be beneficial for me to get the larger drives.

As far as the Advanced Dock goes, with some searching on here there seems to be two video cards that seem to work... the FireGL V5200, and a Lenovo-branded ATI X1300. I'm trying to figure out which GPU would be better for a three monitor setup. Both seem to be reasonably priced. I'm not looking to turn this into a blazing gaming system while in-dock; I'm just looking to have lots of screen real estate.

It's also good to see that I can keep onto this system for a while and expect decent performance out of it. It still does about 90% of what I need a computer to do, and I can take it with me as well.

I am currently using a T60p but I think its seen better days. I am currently waiting for my W510.

But some things about the T60p.

- Sata only runs at Sata 1 speeds so you dont' get full speeds on the drives. This was by design to save power which sucks.

- I use mine as my desktop at work with 3 monitors, 2-21" and 1 - 24". I connect the 24" to the dock's DVI and the other two I use usb-dvi connectors. Works great.

- I am running Windows 7 with 4 GB of memory.. working great for me. In fact the power management of Windows 7 alone is a reason to upgrade to it.

tzmueller wrote: - I use mine as my desktop at work with 3 monitors, 2-21" and 1 - 24". I connect the 24" to the dock's DVI and the other two I use usb-dvi connectors. Works great.

Very interesting... I have a couple of questions about that. Firstly, do you have the USB-DVI adapters plugged into the dock, or the T60p itself? Also, what brand/type are you using, and what sort of maximum resolutions do they support? If I can get three monitors up with that setup it'd definitely be easier than trying to find just the right video card to get it to work through the dock. Would be less expensive than getting an Advanced Dock and getting a video card to go along with it. Hmm...

tzmueller wrote:I am currently using a T60p but I think its seen better days. I am currently waiting for my W510.

But some things about the T60p.

- Sata only runs at Sata 1 speeds so you dont' get full speeds on the drives. This was by design to save power which sucks.

Do you have a cite for your claim about the SATA version being kept at ver. 1 to save power? I'd be interested in that as, TTBOMK there is little difference in power requirements for the two types.

Very few if any 2.5" mechanical HDDs can sustain higher than 150GB/second which is the max for SATA 1. [Read; None] Also even mid-range SSDs aren't going to be significantly held back by a SATA 1 interface.

tzmueller wrote:- I am running Windows 7 with 4 GB of memory.. working great for me. In fact the power management of Windows 7 alone is a reason to upgrade to it.

Why are you using 4GB of memory? T60/p's are unable to address more than 3GB. Is it for the infinitesimally small advantage that running in symmetrical dual-channel mode gives?

If your T60p has "seen better days" and you're upgrading your hardware surely it's hardly worth upgrading to Windows 7?

Regards,

tzmueller wrote:- Sata only runs at Sata 1 speeds so you dont' get full speeds on the drives. This was by design to save power which sucks.

By whose design? Lenovo or Intel? Lenovo does state SATA300 support for the ICH7M chipset in the Tabook, but any formal source I've seen mentions that SATA300 was never really supported.