Thinkpads Forum

I recently sold my X200s, and am looking for a new ThinkPad to replace it.

Browsing through the outlet store, three possibilities strike my fancy:

T61 w/ 1280x1024 (4:3!!!) display
T61p w/ 1920x1200 display
X301

Now obviously these would all fill different roles -- the first two acting as desktop replacements/mobile workstations, the last as an ultraportable -- but with that in mind, I'd like to request guidance on several points:

1) I know that the 4:3 is likely not FlexView. That said, how does the quality compare to the wide-screen panels in other T61s? Is it drastically better/worse?

2) Do both the widescreen (15.4") and non-widescreen (14.1") T61s have lid roll-cages to protect the screen?

3) Is there any difference in durability between the widescreen and non-widescreen T61s? (reviews and anecdotes alike are both welcome)

4) (Long shot) How does the T61 keyboard stack up against the X30x keyboard or the X6x keyboard?

5) Are there any major problems with the T61s that I need to know about?

I figure I've got 8 or so hours to decide, so any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks!
-Rob

1) It cannot be 1280x1024 - only 1024x768 or 1400x1050. If it is the latter, then I have a similar panel in my T60. What can I say, it's a pretty crappy display as far as viewing angles / colors go. For text work head on it's fine. Comparable to the widescreen 14.1" T61s. The 15.4" 1680x1050 is said to be better - among the nicer TN displays ever seen in a laptop.

2) Yes.

3)

4) T6x and X6x keyboard to me are comparable in feel. They are both fairly solid, don't flex and give good feedback. T4x keyboard is still better. Have no experience with X301.

5) The only major thing may be that the nVidia-equipped models are said to be prone to sudden death because of the faulty nVidia GPUs, which also happens in other laptops from other manufacturers. How serious it is I cannot say.

As far as minor things go:

* Compared to T60, it has no stereo mix. You will only care if you want to record the playback or mix several sources.
* Compared to T60, it has no embedded controller for the volume control buttons - these are software/driver based now. I don't see why anyone would care, as it only means they won't work during the boot process.
* Compared to T40/T60, it is said that the Cardbus controller offers lower performance (this is something I only recently discovered through a thread on these forums). You will only care if you need high-performing CardBus (PCMCIA) devices.
* Compared to T400, it doesn't offer SATA2 (chipset supports it, but BIOS-locked to SATA1 speeds). You will only care if you use high-performance SSDs, and even then, the practical difference won't be big.
* Compared to T60, it has no InfraRed port.

There may be a few other things, which will also be quite minor. In most cases, the advantages over a T60 (8GB memory support over 3GB in T60), Firewire, optional built-in cameras, faster CPUs, etc. will far outweigh those.

But then again, the T400/T500 offer just the same, only even better and faster, so unless the T61 is much cheaper, they would be better buys.

Most of my problems with the T61 are purely aesthetic - I don't like the way it looks, and I don't like the clumsy batteries for the 14" widescreen model (standard screen 14" and 15.4" wide models use the same batteries as T60, which are OK).

dr_st wrote:1) It cannot be 1280x1024 - only 1024x768 or 1400x1050. If it is the latter, then I have a similar panel in my T60. What can I say, it's a pretty crappy display as far as viewing angles / colors go. For text work head on it's fine.

From the outlet description:

14.1” SXGA+ (1280 X 1024) TFT

The 15.4" 1680x1050 is said to be better - among the nicer TN displays ever seen in a laptop.

I'll take a look. When I said "widescreen", I was actually referring to the 1920x1200 panels -- but that's not really a big deal, as either would be fine now that I think about it.

T6x and X6x keyboard to me are comparable in feel. They are both fairly solid, don't flex and give good feedback. T4x keyboard is still better. Have no experience with X301.

Good to know. I'm quite happy with the X6x keyboards. I can't compare them to the T4x, having never owned one of those series, but I can say that they compare quite well to the X4x ones -- better in some areas, worse in others. If the T6x keyboards are similar to the X6x ones, then I should be happy.

The only major thing may be that the nVidia-equipped models are said to be prone to sudden death because of the faulty nVidia GPUs, which also happens in other laptops from other manufacturers. How serious it is I cannot say.

Darn. I actually had an MBP bite the dust not too long ago, thanks to that very issue. Hmm. This may be an issue...

As far as minor things go:

Lacking the requisite talent to be a musician or a singer, I can't say I've ever used line-in on a notebook of mine.

I already know about the hardware/software differences with the T/X6x series volume -- tpb and thinkpad_acpi seem to handle 'em just fine, so no worries there. I actually rarely use the volume buttons anyways.

I don't use Cardbus, so that's not a problem.

SATA1/SATA2 is good to know. I do use high-performance SSDs, but I rarely do massive sequential transfers, so it's not a big deal.

Re: the T400/T500 -- I've considered them, but I feel that engineering-wise Lenovo made too many compromises; the keyboard flex, lid changes, and body tweaks are not to my liking.

Thanks for all the great feedback! You've given me much to consider...

Unless the T61/p with nVidia GPU has warranty remaining, your best bet is to avoid it altogether. Although Lenovo has been downplaying the issue, it is real, and it is beyond serious IMHO.

If you're looking at 15.4" workstation laptop, W500 is much better machine than any T61p will ever be. It's quiet and cool, and much faster. WUXGA screens are quite horrible, WSXGA+ ones should be better by quite a margin.

The only T61s I would consider would be the ones with Intel graphics, which would make a great daily beater.

My $0.02 only...

ThinkRob wrote:I recently sold my X200s, and am looking for a new ThinkPad to replace it.

Browsing through the outlet store, three possibilities strike my fancy:

T61 w/ 1280x1024 (4:3!!!) display
T61p w/ 1920x1200 display
X301

Now obviously these would all fill different roles -- the first two acting as desktop replacements/mobile workstations, the last as an ultraportable -- but with that in mind, I'd like to request guidance on several points:

1) I know that the 4:3 is likely not FlexView. That said, how does the quality compare to the wide-screen panels in other T61s? Is it drastically better/worse?

2) Do both the widescreen (15.4") and non-widescreen (14.1") T61s have lid roll-cages to protect the screen?

3) Is there any difference in durability between the widescreen and non-widescreen T61s? (reviews and anecdotes alike are both welcome)

4) (Long shot) How does the T61 keyboard stack up against the X30x keyboard or the X6x keyboard?

5) Are there any major problems with the T61s that I need to know about?

1) Display quality is about the same.

2) Unknown

3) No, I’ve had them all and durability is quite good. Not to be confused with build quality as I find the T60/p 4:3 a bit higher build quality than the T61’s I’ve had.

4) All of these have good keyboards with the only differences being subtle depending on the supplier.

5) Nothing major that I’m aware of.

Based on what you’ve said I would suggest a T500 if you can live with the offset display.

archer6 wrote: Based on what you’ve said I would suggest a T500 if you can live with the offset display.

And that's just what I did. Got a nice config (can't remember the exact specs, but it did have dedicated graphics and WSXGA+) for $731 incl. taxes + shipping.

Not a bad deal, I think.

I won't be able to actually check out the machine for quite some time (I'm abroad at the moment), but I'm already shopping for T6x/R6x keyboards as a safety measure...

Doesn't the Middleton BIOS unlock SATA-2 speeds in T61s?

Yes, it definitely does. You replied in a 6-year old thread, in case you missed it. Lots of things changed since then, including Middleton's BIOS.

I had a T61p with a 1920x1200 display. It's the dimmest display I've ever encountered - one of the reasons I've mostly switched to Dell laptops, which seem to have brighter screens.

If you still have it, get a Sharp LQ154M1LW2A or LQ154M1LW02.
Absolutely fabulous 1920x1200 screens, even if used (on some Dell machines).
You'll need to carefully cut off some metal brackets, but otherwise it's a drop-in, drop-dead gorgeous replacement.


PS: also fits in T500/R500 and other T6x/R6x 15.4" models.

I know a lot of folks here aren't huge fans of some of the WUXGA screens in the T61p, but I've got to say that the Samsung WUXGA panel in my T61p is fantastic - it's fairly bright and the high pixel density is a real treat. Watch out for the dim ones though; I had one of those and it was pretty lackluster.