Thinkpads Forum

Presently it has 1.5GB RAM. I have an extra 2GB DDR2 667MHz 200 pin SODIMM, so I can boost it to 3GB (I assume this is appropriate memory??). It's still running XP Pro. I never availed myself of the "free" upgrade to Vista (got it just before Vista shipped), and when I tried a few months ago they said I was SOL, because my warranty had expired.

Can I run Windows 7 on this? Presumably I'd be running what? 32 bit is best? Or am I limited to Vista (again, I suppose 32 bit)?

You can run Windows 7 on it. Definitely put in the other 2GB to make a total of 3GB. Only a few of the T60s can run 64bit anyways so you are fine. Download the Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor to see what's not compatible with 7 but it should run just fine since it did on my system before i upgraded.

XP works but 7 just makes life easier for me anyways I moved away from XP as soon as i could!

I just moved to Windows 7. It works great. If I had the extra memory to take it up to 3Gb I would - However, I have 2.5Gb and it works fine.

Given there's no direct upgrade path from XP to 7, you'll need to do a clean install, so backup etc etc.

I did a clean install of 7 and found that sound wasn't working even though all drivers were installed. Once I installed and ran ThinkVantage and System Update 4 (make sure it's 4 as it 'know' windows 7) and got all the T60 specific drivers installed, everything ran perfectly. It seems that sound will work once the hotkey drivers are installed.

I'm running W7 Enterprise 32-bit. I just happened to have a 'spare' key available to me. I suspect that Home Premium wold work just fine.

The T60 has a max memory size of 3Gb so there doesn't seem to be any real advantage of using the 64-bit version. In addition, I don't think 64-bit will work on a Core Duo processor. You'll need a Core 2 Duo which has the 64-bit extensions on it if you absolutely need to run on a 64-bit o/s.

The T60 will run Windows 7 32-bit. If that is what you have, go for it. If you have any flexibility, a 64-bit machine, lots of RAM and a 7200-rpm hard drives will leave its 32-bit counterpart in the dust choking for breath. .. JDH

jdhurst wrote:If you have any flexibility, a 64-bit machine, lots of RAM and a 7200-rpm hard drives will leave its 32-bit counterpart in the dust choking for breath. .. JDH

If one is running 64-bit, how much ram are you talking about?

Cheers...

3-4GB and up is what i'd say for 64bit. 8GB would be sweet obviously.

I use 4Gb on my T61p and Windows 7 Pro 64-bit runs very, very fast. I also use a 7200-rpm hard drive that helps no end. I would prefer 8Gb but it was too expensive when I went to 4Gb (Vista at the time). I mean to purchase a Windows 7 desktop and it will come with 8Gb. ... JDH

With 2.5Gb, my T60 runs just fine with 32-bit Windows 7. I use it for silverlight development when I'm on the road and email/browsing in the evenings etc. I have vs2008 and sql server 2008 installed on it and it performs just great - much better than Vista ever was - and I'm very happy with it.

My main desktop development system has a triple AMD 3.2ghz processor, 8gb ram and 64-bit home premium installed. I run that with the paging/swapfile turned off. Now that puppy is a real flier...

Hey all,

As steyoung said, T60's are limited to 3 gigs of ram, it is a physical limitation. In my t60p, I have 4 gigs installed but only 3 are available because of this limitation. I went with the 4 gigs because it enabled the RAM to run in dual channel mode, which is a very slight performance increase. See the link below for the topic that discusses memory limitations.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=49703

The reason that I bring this up is you would be better off running 32 bit (IMO), because the only true advantage to 64 but is the ability to support much more ram. Since we are limited to 3 gigs, and 32bit can do 3 gigs, there is no significant benefit to 64 bit in this situation. I am running 64 bit on mine, and compared to when I had 32 bit installed it uses MUCH more memory.

Example,

32 bit Installed: Running programs -Outlook, Autocad 2010, DWG trueview 2010, itunes, Firefox, Dropbox = roughly 60% ram usage

64 bit Installed: Same programs = 80% RAM usage (I notice some page file usage at this point)


With that said, I LOVE WIN7 ON MY T60p. You should be able to run it fine, but the more ram the better!

Regards

steyoung wrote: In addition, I don't think 64-bit will work on a Core Duo processor. You'll need a Core 2 Duo which has the 64-bit extensions on it if you absolutely need to run on a 64-bit o/s.

My T60 has the Intel Core 2 Duo processor T5500, so maybe (?) it would run x64 Windows 7. I don't presently know that I have a "need" to run it over 32 bit.

jdhurst wrote:The T60 will run Windows 7 32-bit. If that is what you have, go for it. If you have any flexibility, a 64-bit machine, lots of RAM and a 7200-rpm hard drives will leave its 32-bit counterpart in the dust choking for breath. .. JDH

Um, well I heard (reading a thread or two here) that the T60's chipset insures that only 3GB of installed RAM is addressable. Also, posts I've read seems to indicate that 64 bit Windows 7 needs 4GB. The HD is presently 5400 RPM 60 GB but I am eyeing a Hitachi 500GB 7200. Would 64 bit Windows 7 make sense then with 4GB? Or is Windows 7 32 bit the way to go?

Edit: Reading kelehman's post above, evidently 32 bit is smarter, will be more RAM efficient.

One of the main practical reasons for moving to a 64-bit version of windows is to be able to have more than 4gb of memory usable in a machine. So if you have a pc that can have 8gb installed, you would be wise to run 64-bit so you can use all 8gb. Given the physical limitation on the T60 is 3gb of memory, there is no real benefit of installing 64-bit. In fact, as kelehman outlined, there is a downside to running w7 64-bit on a low memory system such as a T60 and that is that you will use more memory for the same amount of stuff you're running which therefore has the potential of kicking off paging earlier which may well lead to a slower system.

Bottom line. Unless you're just looking for the 'bragging rights' of using w7 64-bit, use the 32-bit version - you'll most likely be better off.

Don't forget that a T60 is not a 64-bit system and cannot run Windows 64-bit. ... JDH

jdhurst wrote:Don't forget that a T60 is not a 64-bit system and cannot run Windows 64-bit. ... JDH

That's true if you have a core duo processor in it such as a t2400 or t2500. However, if it has a core 2 duo such as a T7200, T7400 or T7600 then it can.

Regardless however, imho, the t60 is not really suitable for running w7 64-bit.

Don't forget that a T60 is not a 64-bit system and cannot run Windows 64-bit. ... JDH

That's true if you have a core duo processor in it such as a t2400 or t2500. However, if it has a core 2 duo such as a T7200, T7400 or T7600 then it can.

Regardless however, imho, the t60 is not really suitable for running w7 64-bit.

Mine has a core 2 duo T5500, however I believe the chipset has 3GB addressable RAM limitation, so maybe 32 bit is better.

Here's a question maybe someone can answer: I have a 32 bit Windows 7 upgrade disk for my newish Acer Aspire 6530-6522, bought before Windows 7 shipped. Haven't installed it yet, it came with a key. I installed 2x 2GB in the Acer (came with 3GB), so I suppose I can run 64x Windows 7 in it OK. Can I use the 32 bit Windows 7 upgrade disk I have in the Lenovo T60 instead, later installing Windows 7 64 bit disk in the Acer when I get it?

steyoung wrote:<snip>
Regardless however, imho, the t60 is not really suitable for running w7 64-bit.

Suitability in the case of the T60 is not an issue. The T60 *cannot* run a 64-bit OS so far as I know. ... JDH

jdhurst wrote: Suitability in the case of the T60 is not an issue. The T60 *cannot* run a 64-bit OS so far as I know. ... JDH

Sure it can. Any T60 with a Core 2 Duo processor in it can run a 64-bit o/s.

Early model T60 systems shipped with a Core Duo processor which is 32-bit only. Late model T60 systems shipped with a Core 2 Duo processor which has the 64-bit extensions and can therefore run a 64-bit o/s. Plus, anyone should be able to upgrade a Core Duo system to a Core 2 Duo system by putting in one of these {T5500, T5600, T7200, T7400 or T7600} - there may be another one but this is from memory.

In the LTWBOOK, there are many models of T60's and T60P's with Core 2 Duo CPU's. In each instance they are listed as having "Intel 64 Technology". I have run Windows 7 64bit on a Core 2 Duo T60P, so I know it works.

Edit: steyoung beat me to it ...

steyoung wrote:<snip>
Early model T60 systems shipped with a Core Duo processor which is 32-bit only. Late model T60 systems shipped with a Core 2 Duo processor which has the 64-bit extensions and can therefore run a 64-bit o/s. <snip>

Thank you. Therein lies my confusion about the T60. ... JDH

jdhurst wrote:<snip>
Early model T60 systems shipped with a Core Duo processor which is 32-bit only. Late model T60 systems shipped with a Core 2 Duo processor which has the 64-bit extensions and can therefore run a 64-bit o/s. <snip>

steyoung wrote:Thank you. Therein lies my confusion about the T60. ... JDH

So, I suppose those 64 bit extensions don't do you any good in those systems because the chipsets will not address more than 3GB memory. I presume that's equally true if you run Linux.

Muse wrote: So, I suppose those 64 bit extensions don't do you any good in those systems because the chipsets will not address more than 3GB memory. I presume that's equally true if you run Linux.

Yep. The ability to run a 64-bit o/s and the amount of memory the hardware on the t60 can address are separate from each other. Or to put it another way...

- The 3gb memory limitation is true for all T60 systems.
- The ability to run a 64-bit o/s is true for any T60 with a Core 2 Duo processor

I'd like to probe a little more deeply into the 32-bit vs 64-bit question. I own a T60p and am contemplating upgrading from Vista 32-bit to Windows 7 64-bit, so your thoughts would be helpful.

Kelehman saw no great advantage to 64-bit versions of Windows on the T60 series, given their inherent memory limitation to 3GB. I quote him:

The reason that I bring this up is you would be better off running 32 bit (IMO), because the only true advantage to 64 but is the ability to support much more ram. Since we are limited to 3 gigs, and 32bit can do 3 gigs, there is no significant benefit to 64 bit in this situation. I am running 64 bit on mine, and compared to when I had 32 bit installed it uses MUCH more memory.

I'm not sure it is strictly true that there is "no significant benefit" to running a 64-bit OS. I can think of two:
1) For CPU-intensive tasks, there should be a noticeable performance gain. But, how much?
2) A 64-bit OS "future-proofs" your system, although I grant that this is probably of marginal benefit for an aging system such as the T60.

Finally, a question. Can Windows 7 64-bit be "tweaked" in any way to use less memory?

Thanks.

Muse wrote: So, I suppose those 64 bit extensions don't do you any good in those systems because the chipsets will not address more than 3GB memory. I presume that's equally true if you run Linux.

steyoung wrote:Yep. The ability to run a 64-bit o/s and the amount of memory the hardware on the t60 can address are separate from each other. Or to put it another way...

- The 3gb memory limitation is true for all T60 systems.
- The ability to run a 64-bit o/s is true for any T60 with a Core 2 Duo processor

Maybe someone can answer this question:

I have a Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit upgrade disk with key that was provided by mail for my August-bought Acer Aspire laptop, which is running Vista Home Premium 32 bit. The system came with 3GB, but I yanked that and installed 2x 2GB for 4GB. I figure I should hold off and get 64x Windows 7 for that machine. Can I instead install that Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit upgrade disk with key on my Lenovo T60 currently running XP Pro? I will first take the 2GB I took out of the Acer and put it in the T60 for a total of 3GB.

If you have a windows 7 32-bit installation/upgrade disk (I assume it's a dvd?) with a valid key, then I cannot see any reason why you cannot install that onto your T60. There is no 'upgrade' path from xp to 7 so you will need to do a clean install. You will need to back up any data you have on your t60 and be prepared to re-install programs onto 7 and restore your data. If the key for w7 is already used on the acer, you may have to jump through some hoops with msoft to get the t60 and w7 activated - I don't know as I haven't bumped into that issue yet. Maybe someone else has some insight into that potential problem.

steyoung wrote:If you have a windows 7 32-bit installation/upgrade disk (I assume it's a dvd?) with a valid key, then I cannot see any reason why you cannot install that onto your T60. There is no 'upgrade' path from xp to 7 so you will need to do a clean install. You will need to back up any data you have on your t60 and be prepared to re-install programs onto 7 and restore your data. If the key for w7 is already used on the acer, you may have to jump through some hoops with msoft to get the t60 and w7 activated - I don't know as I haven't bumped into that issue yet. Maybe someone else has some insight into that potential problem.

Yes, thanks for this information. I haven't used the key yet. I was curious about just that circumstance, though, in case I decided to install on the Acer first and then move it to the Lenovo T60 if and when I get a copy of 64 bit Windows 7.

I'm wondering about how I can avail myself of Lenovo programs. Right now, I have pretty much the original setup that came with the T60 with its XP. Can I download Lenovo utilities and other programs supplied with the T60 to install over a clean Windows 7 installation? The T60 has a restore partition, I believe, but I've never used it. Seems that if I take the T60 out of suspend if it hasn't been used for a couple of days, I am asked if I want to "Restore."

steyoung wrote:<snip>
Regardless however, imho, the t60 is not really suitable for running w7 64-bit.

So now: A T61p 64-bit with 3Gb of memory ran Vista Business 64-bit like greased lightning. I saw no difference in adding 1Gb (although I did so).

So why is a T60 64-bit with 3Gb of memory so unsuitable for Windows 7 Pro 64-bit? I would expect it to be nearly as fast as what I have. The only thing I can see is a different CPU.

... JDH

jdhurst wrote: So now: A T61p 64-bit with 3Gb of memory ran Vista Business 64-bit like greased lightning. I saw no difference in adding 1Gb (although I did so).

So why is a T60 64-bit with 3Gb of memory so unsuitable for Windows 7 Pro 64-bit? I would expect it to be nearly as fast as what I have. The only thing I can see is a different CPU.

... JDH

It's cool that a 64-bit Vista running on 3Gb is working out for you. My experience is that Windows 7 runs faster than Vista, so for you and what you're using it for, it'll probably work out too.

My point on the 32-bit vs 64-bit is simple. If all things are equal, and you're running the same software, then byte for byte, 32-bit generally uses less of your available memory than 64-bit does. So, if you have a fixed and limited memory size such as the 3gb on a T60, and you're running a bunch of programs which are pushing the memory size limit, then the 64-bit version could well run slower or perhaps even appear sluggish.

The only reason I personally use for deciding whether to use w7 64-bit is if I have a system with at least 4gb on it that has the capability of expanding beyond that if I need it to, otherwise, why bother.

So will w7 64-bit run on a 3gb T60? Sure it will. Should you do it? sure - feel free. You'll probably be happy with your decision. Would I do it? No.

I have read a lot about Vista and although I no longer use it, I have come to the conclusion that I was the only person in the world with the capability to take a machete, rip the guts and heart out of Vista and make it work fast, efficient and unbreakable like an OS should. When I was finished, there was nothing about Vista left except the 64-bits.

So I took my T61p, replaced the hard drive and installed Windows 7 Pro 64-bit. It runs really fast, but no faster than Vista. Windows 7 is vastly less reliable than Vista. Even though Windows 7 doesn't ever crash, it runs a Reliability Index of about 3 versus Vista which also didn't crash and ran a reliability index of about 9.

To your point about the same software, this is perhaps where I won on Vista where no one else could. I do not have a single piece of software running in 64-bit that ran in 32-bit. 100% of my software had to be ugpraded at very great cost. The cost of 64-bit software easily exceeded the cost of the machine itself.

I have not found any limit to the number of programs I can run. I am ready to shut down for the evening, but 30 minutes ago I had 3 complete machines running simultaneously (Windows 7, Windows Vista, and Windows 98) along with Excel, IE8 and other things. Free memory was still available. I could do that in Vista as well (let's say Vista, XP and Windows 98).

So all in all, we are probably on the same page, and have just come at it from different perspectives.
... JDH