What a strange IBM certified t60p bought from ebay!

[lda]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here, but a fan of thinkpad for a longtime. My first one is 600e, then r42 --> r51 --> r52 --> x61. I'm always longing for a t-series with UXGA IPS lcd. Recently, I bought a T60P (2008-Y16) from ebay. It was described as IBM Factory Refurbished Sealed in Box With IBM Warranty. Well, it did be shipped in original box and seemed never been opened before. However, I was so surprised to find that the monitor is not 15"UXGA IPS FLEXVIEW as described, but one with max resolution of 1024*768. Below is what I've done for it.

1. Checked the type of laptop. It should have UXGA Flexview lcd.

2. Got information below after running PC-Doctor 5.
*Mode*1024 x 768 (32-bit) (60 Hz)
*Preferred Mode*1024 x 768 (60 Hz)
*Manufacture Date*Week 49, Year 2007
*Signal Type*Digital
*Windows Properties*
*Windows Driver Key*{4D36E96E-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0006
*Manufacturer*(Standard monitor types)
*Windows Hardware IDs*Monitor\HSD1527

3. Downloaded drivers for video, monitor, and bios from IBM website, updated them in that computer. The max resolution is still 1024*768.

4. Recovered windows system to factory, updated system and drivers for video and monitor. Still 1024*768.

BTW, the monitor seems no to be a wide view angle LCD when I try to look at it from different angles. It shows image pretty clear in 1024*768 resolution, suggesting that is the native resolution of monitor.

Now the problem is what I can do? There are several options,

1. Ask for an exchange from the seller. It would cost about $170 for sending it back and getting the return one. According to seller’s return policy, I have to pay that costs.

2. Ask IBM to fix it. However, the 3 months warranty for IBM certified used notebook, it doesn’t work outside the US. There is a 1 Year Extended Warranty Option (EWO) for Notebooks selling on IBM website. Is it an international warranty?

3. Accept that laptop, buy a uxga lcd, and swap it myself. It would cost about $150.

4. Other options I don’t know yet.

I really hope to get suggestions from you, and very appreciate for your help.

[Dale H. Cook]

Now the problem is what I can do?

What was the eBay item number? I'd like to see if you have a legitimate gripe with the seller. If the item was misrepresented, you do have a gripe, and eBay can help you with that gripe.

[lda]

What was the eBay item number? I'd like to see if you have a legitimate gripe with the seller. If the item was misrepresented, you do have a gripe, and eBay can help you with that gripe.

Thank you. Here it is,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... TQ:US:1123 (eBay seller is ibmfactoryoutlet)

Admin edit: Added eBay seller's name as the linked auction will soon be purged from eBay's system.

[RealBlackStuff]

From the Lenovo website:
Product: ThinkPad T60p 2008-Y16 [change]
Operating system: All [change]

Original description: Based on 2008-CTO: T2600(2.16GHz), 2GB RAM, 100GB 7200rpm HD, 15in 1600x1200 LCD, 256MB ATI FireGL V5200, CDRW/DVD, 802.11abg wireless, Bluetooth/Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, 9c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

Seller very clearly states everywhere "IBM THINKPAD T60P 2.16GHZ 2GB 100G 15"UXGA IPS FLEXVIEW"
and:
Display
External display supported: Yes
Simultaneous external display: Yes
Screen type description: TFT
Viewable image size (diagonal): 15" inches
Screen illumination: Backlit FlexView
Max colors or grey shades: 16777216

In my opinion a very clear case of gross misrepresentation!
There are no 1024x768 IPS Flexview screens.

I would suggest first contacting the seller and ask for a refund to the value of you getting a real IPS screen.
If he doesn't, escalate the case to eBay and tell them you want your money back, with seller paying for the return shipping as well!

[ajkula66]

Well, well, well...they've done it again...

It's been quite a while since we've last heard the complaints about this particular seller...

Return the darn thing ASAP...and don't take "no" for an answer, get your money back and spend it someplace else.

[lda]

I would suggest first contacting the seller and ask for a refund to the value of you getting a real IPS screen.
If he doesn't, escalate the case to eBay and tell them you want your money back, with seller paying for the return shipping as well!

Thanks for your suggestion! I've contacted the seller. He offered an exchange and would cover the shipping fees at first. Then he sent me another message suggesting a partial refund because the high fees of shipping. It is a $50 discount. Should I accept it? It would cost at least $150 to have lcd swapped if I'm lucky to find a uxga ips lcd locally.

[ajkula66]

Heck, no.

Insist on full refund, or file the complaint with PayPal and/or your credit card company.

[lda]

Well, well, well...they've done it again...

It's been quite a while since we've last heard the complaints about this particular seller...

Return the darn thing ASAP...and don't take "no" for an answer, get your money back and spend it someplace else.

Many thanks for your words! Now the big problem is my return shipping. It’s difficult to get a laptop shipped outside the country for the safe of Expo 2010 Shanghai. Couldn’t believe it!

[olsogafar]

Hello,
If I may add my 2 cents to the discussion... I've bought a T60p flexview from the EXACT SAME Ebay VENDOR. When I received the laptop, the LCD was almost dying : the whites were pink, and the screen was very dim. Also the laptop was dirty like crazy, the keyboard was totaly worn (several markings on the letters were erased), and someone has tried to put a screwdriver to remove the screen bezel, destroying it. Well, after contacting the vendor, he sent me a first email, whose content led me to believe he was trying to screw me. Usually, I'm a very polite person, but I was so furious that I sent a very aggressive email ordering him to take his piece of junk back. Then he behave in a normal way : he sent me an UPS return box and I returned the laptop. Anyway, I decided to try again (I really like the flexview screen), so he sent me another laptop. Alas, I had to return it again : while he was in a much better shape, the screen was very dim, especially in the corners...

Bottomline : it seems that this vendor is having some bad pieces of equipment, but I don't see why you would have to pay for the shipping costs for a mistake he made: he has to send you a prepaid return box!

Cheers,

[underclocker]

It's a very unfortunate situation. It's also unfortunate that the seller has no quality control process. Judging by their feedback, they do sell some OK items, but big problems keep popping up.

Either way, considering where you are and the shipping costs and risks involved, I'd ask the seller to either 1) ship a new or excellent IPS UXGA display, or 2) ship a complete IPS UXGA display assembly, or 3) submit a $150 to $200 partial refund. And, if the seller wants the XGA returned, included a prepaid shipping label, otherwise, it's yours to keep or sell.

You'll still have to swap the LCD, but it's not that hard - or perhaps can find some help.

Again, sorry, that seller uses very misleading ads.

[sktn77a]

Agree with Underclocker. Unfortunately, the display is a high value component of your system. Without it, the computer is worth about $150 less than with it. The item was clearly misrepresented in the e-bay ad and both e-bay and PayPal would support your position: Refund with seller paying return shipping, replacement UXGA screen, or partial refund of ~$150 and you keep the existing computer (unless you really wanted the UXGA display). Personally I'd go for the last one - UXGA on a 15" screen is way too small for me to read!

[lda]

Thank you all, for your suggestions and sharing experience with me.

I was informed by IBM Certified Pre-owned Equipment Department and Hotline IGF Customer Support that the unit was sold in Nov. 2009, and is no longer covered under the 90 day warranty. Considering the problem of that notebook, I asked for a partial refund of $190 to cover the cost of LCD replacement and lost of warranty.

The seller claimed that he is an IBM dealer and he can extend the warranty from the date of purchase. However, I doubt if it will be an IBM warranty. The seller refused my request, and refunded me $85 for shipping it back to him, or keeping it.

Should I accept refund and keep the notebook? I’m tired of endless argument with that vendor. Just want to finish it. I’m going to order an uxga lcd later…

[ajkula66]

File a dispute with PayPal and your credit card company, if possible. Yesterday. Then escalate it to a claim.

Keep us posted.

[lda]

Bought a uxga lcd, swapped it myself. Here is a pic of the original screen coming with t60p. 150PX1A-A02, definitly a xga lcd.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/448 ... 764f_o.jpg

Admin edit: Removed inline image as it was > 50KB. Please keep the images small (thumbnail link to larger picture is nice) and put a warning in the original subject line (i.e., *PIC*).

[bomgd3]

I wish I had seen this topic before I bought my T60p from them. Mine is nearly unusable because it seems like the mobo is fried or something. Every time I do anything slightly intensive in Ubuntu, the computer crashes completely (black screen, totally unresponsive). Also, the screen has lots of dark splotches that were not described in the listing, and the speakers are broken.

Anyone had success getting their money back?

[Crunch]

The seller's feedback seems to be pretty excellent at 99.4%, and then almost all 5 stars in all categories on the Detailed Seller Ratings page. The seller is an authorized IBM partner, so since they've made a mistake, definitely either get your money back or work something out, whichever you prefer!

Do not let the seller talk you into any kind of deal that you are not comfortable with.

Let us know how this proceeds, so that we can better help you. Good luck!

[RealBlackStuff]

Every time I do anything slightly intensive in Ubuntu, the computer crashes completely (black screen, totally unresponsive).

Sounds like overheating.
If you are going to keep the machine, you probably need to replace the thermal paste between CPU and cooler (get Arctic Silver 5).

[vinuneuro]

Based on what I've read recently from others, splotches on the screen indicates video memory corruption= you need a new motherboard. Not to mention the broken speakers.

Tell them to refund your money. If that doesn't work, open a claim with paypal. If that doesn't work dispute the charge with your credit card company.

[bomgd3]

I'm pretty certain the screen is just a physical defect. I did get an RMA from the seller, and they were courteous though very defensive. However, I found that the Thinkpad is perfectly happy running Windows XP. Seems like a heat issue with Linux power management, then. Under XP, GPU idle temp is around 70 degrees C, which is high, but not horrible. I'm going to install Windows Server 2008 and use it as my workstation instead of returning it. After graduation this week, I'll work on modding the heatsink assembly to hopefully reduce operating temps.

The speakers also work fine under XP. It's strange that 10.04 has such spotty reliability on this machine, since it runs perfectly on my friend's T60 as well as on my T61.

[ajkula66]

bomgd3 wrote:

Under XP, GPU idle temp is around 70 degrees C, which is high, but not horrible.

Make no mistake, that is hot for V5200 just idling, by at least 20 degrees. I would not be comforable seeing such temperatures if the machine were mine.

Good luck.

[GrandMasterKhan]

You should get your money back from the seller for any incremental costs and time inccurred.

[eatbuckshot]

wow, am I lucky? i seem to have no problems with mine and it was in great condition...
I just posted about this maybe i'll give a heads up but here are some unboxing pics for me..

http://i.imgur.com/74dA6.jpg
http://imgur.com/iMTYw.jpg
http://imgur.com/YZGdi.jpg
http://imgur.com/WszTB.jpg
http://imgur.com/E7Mn5.jpg
http://imgur.com/7wMz4.jpg
http://imgur.com/RmYA0.jpg
http://imgur.com/tdwTK.jpg

[vinuneuro]

You mean apart from the missing screen bezel?

[eatbuckshot]

err if you only looked at the last picture, then I was in the process of replacing the uxga with the qxga

[GrandMasterKhan]

I get agitated reading stories where a customer gets ripped off.
1) Did you ever call IBM to verify the eBay seller is indeed associated with IBM? Other than selling used Thinkpads what is the actual nexus to IBM? Ask yourself, would IBM "certify" a machine with faults like the ones you folks got? I mean a missing bezel? Somehow I think its not the IBM we know.
2) By all means get your fair refund back from the guy. You don't have to negotiate. You dictate what makes you whole again after being ripped off.
The "real" IBM store has actual machines, that have been tested.


http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/americas/we ... logId=-840

[rambo47]

Wow, lots of problems from this seller. I was on the verge of buying from him when I happened upon this discussion. I ended up getting a T60P from somebody else and it should arrive this week. Phew!

[billp117]

He is selling the same model now for $395...buyer beware. You can do better buying from the forum.

[GrandMasterKhan]

If you guys got ripped off by the guy you should shut him down.

Seems to use area code 732. That is New Jersey. You can contact the BBB and file a complaint with the BBB in that area code. Also the New Jersey Attorney General handles consumer cases. Both organizations I am sure will be delighted to hear from you.

The other thing that I noticed is he uses "IBM Factory Outlet." That is really bad for the naive. I don't think IBM ever let anyone sell their hardware as an outlet but themselves. Lenovo ceritainly did not authorize this guy as they have their own outlet. It's irritating that eBay doesn't clean up the flea circus too.

[GrandMasterKhan]

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-Ta ... /m-p/20061 Past review.
http://www.cbronline.com/news/ibm_opens ... ed_returns Read the last sentence.
http://www.thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopi ... 18&start=0 Past reviews and tips.

If you got ripped off, here are people that can help you:
https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx
http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/ocp/ocpform2.htm

[ThinkRob]

http://www.cbronline.com/news/ibm_opens ... ed_returns Read the last sentence.

For the most part a good post, but I can't help but notice that's a... erm... well that's a 16 year-old story.