Best ThinkPad T6x(p) graphics card for games?

[ArrayInteractive]

Hey Folks,

First off I realize that ThinkPad's aren't the best bet for gaming and many of the graphics cards are tweaked for rendering/CAD as opposed to gaming. However, I want a ThinkPad because they are the best! My failing Toshiba Qosmio G15 will cost about as much for me to get new parts as it would to get a refurbished Thinkpad T6x (that might even be still under warranty). And frankly after using this Toshiba, I'm ready to go back to a ThinkPad and never look back.

This will be my primary work machine, I push my machines hard, I use a lot of photoshop and multimedia applications and generally have a ton of applications open at one time. I'll need a 15.4" screen probably running around 1440 x 900 (ish). I'm not a high end gamer, but I play Dungeons and Dragons Online which is a little more graphics hungry than WoW. I know I'll have to turn game settings down some to get good performance, but currently I'm playing on a GeForce Go6600 (128mb). I figure I should be able to at least get a little more performance out of the T6x graphics cards, worst case at least equal.

From what I've read it sounds like people prefer the T60's over the T61's? I'm kinda thinking my best bet would be a T60 with the ATI FireGL? That seems to be the least common card from what I can find, the Radeon x1400, and nVidia Quatro NVS 140m, seem to be easier to find. I'm guessing I wouldn't want to bother with the integrated graphics cards.

Any suggestions? Right now I'm eyeing a system with a nVidia Quatro NVS 140m, 128mb (pushes up to 512 using system memory). I would hate to get it and discover that I would have been better off with the x1400, 128mb (which is about $100 cheaper). Or should I hold out for a more rare system with the FireGL?

I'm sooo looking forward to getting back to a slick black thinkpad, and oh how I've missed the trackpoint nub!

Big thanks!

[richk]

Welcome to the forum.

First question: Do you want a wide-screen model? Most of the T60 machines are the traditional 4:3 "tall" screen, while most of the T61 machines are wide models. Wide T60 and non-wide T61 are hard to find. Your answer will generate more questions. By the way, none of the 15 inch models have any resolution like you are describing. The tall machines with the better graphics card will have SXGA+ or UXGA. The wide models will be WXGA, WXGA+ or WUXGA. The 1440X900 screen only comes on the 14" wide model

[ArrayInteractive]

I would like a wide screen. Good to know that wide screens are rare on the t60's, didn't realize that.

I know some of the graphics cards offer larger resolutions, like 1600ish and 1900ish wide. I just assumed if they could go that high, I would be able to use a lower resolution on them, like 1440. Maybe that's not the case?

Thanks!

[richk]

LCDs are not like CRTs. They have a native resolution, because there are that many addressable points. If you use anything else, they look blurry. If you don't want a REALLY high resolution, like WUXGA, you will need to choose between WXGA (1280X800) and WSXGA+ (1680X1050). The WXGA screens are a lot more common. I hadn't seen a T61 WSXGA+ screen for a while, but I just got one in that I need to test out and install base software to sell it.

[ArrayInteractive]

Hmmm interesting, strange though because the lcd on my current laptop gives me a pretty wide range of resolutions. But it sounds like you are saying that if I had 1680x1050, then that is not the max but more so the only option.

I think 1680x1050 would make things too small, since I build web sites I need to be pixel perfect. I guess I would probably have to go with WXGA then.

[SHoTTa35]

No, what he was saying is if you get WSXGA+ then that will be the max but anything below that will look blurry since LCDs are designed for 1 resolution only. They can surely display any other (lower) resolution but you probably wouldn't want it as things aren't as sharp. For lower resolutions, the monitor uses more pixels to represent each corresponding pixel. You can think of it as designing a site for 1024 x 768 then zooming into the corners on a JPG or BMP image and you get the blocky look. It wont be nearly as bad but that's the basic idea.

[ArrayInteractive]

Ahh gotcha, thanks!

So given that I'm used to 1440 on a 17" lcd, I guess 1280 on a 15.4" monitor would be about a close as I could get.

[richk]

I suggest looking at a 14" wide-screen also, if you can find one.

[ArrayInteractive]

Yeah, I've actually been seeing a lot for sale. 14" would be nicer for portability and power consumption, but I'm thinking too small especially after working on a 17" bohemith for the last couple of years.

[AIX]

You can find a comprehensive benchmark here.

It seems there are no such big differences between Go 6600, X1400 and NVS 140m - but NVS 140m is a DirectX10 card so it's better than other two when is 3d Mark 2006 compared.

[eyestrain]

I'd expect 14" ws all day long would be rough if you're used to 17. Or is it just for a couple hours here and there?

External monitor maybe? There's a deal on a 24" NEC IPS for $280 shipped after coupon code right now from Newegg. IPS easy on eyes and good color.

1080p, high res, but you could split into 2 windows, and have more there to work w at once. With a high end vid card, should have no trouble at all driving the monitor, I'd think.

[Yacek]

LCDs are not like CRTs. They have a native resolution, because there are that many addressable points. If you use anything else, they look blurry. If you don't want a REALLY high resolution, like WUXGA, you will need to choose between WXGA (1280X800) and WSXGA+ (1680X1050). The WXGA screens are a lot more common. I hadn't seen a T61 WSXGA+ screen for a while, but I just got one in that I need to test out and install base software to sell it.

Yeah, it's true when we're talking about 2D applications. In 3D games things are a bit different. Honestly, each resolution up to native will be perfectly displayed in 3D (DX or OpenGL), the quality depends on 3D graphic card and game settings (level of details, textures quality etc.). I'm not a high-end gamer too and I play from time to time (Heroes of M&M II and IV and similar games... mostly in 1280x1024 and my native res. is 1920x1200 UXGA+ and the quality is perfect.). I have NVidia Quadro 570M with 256 MB and it much more than enough. Some people claim here that this chip is pretty vulnerable to overheating and is pretty defective, but my t61p works for almost 2 years with no single problem with NVidia.... other t61 come also with Intel chip (much worse in 3D) while t60s with ATI chips (also enough for non high-end games..)

[ArrayInteractive]

I do have a desktop with a dual monitor set up, so I do have it as an option... But, who wouldn't rather be on the couch with a laptop? The transition from dual 17" monitors to a single 17" widescreen wasn't too bad, but I think 15.4" is going to be an adjustment, and I don't think a 14" would be realistic. Now if I could afford a second for pure portability that would be sweet.

The NVidia Quadro 570M sounds like a great card, however native resolution of 1920x1200 sounds pretty wild. One hand I'd have lots of screen real estate, but how small is everything? Can you read text at 10px?

I guess what I really need to do is get out somewhere where I can see the resolutions up and running.

Thanks for the inputs so far!

[eyestrain]

I love very high resolution screens, and for my main computer, am unsatisfied with low resolution. Even though I have problems with <my avatar>.

But it is a very personal thing! If you don't like high res, don't be talked into it because it is popular here!

What I usually do, is adjust most text sizes so maybe they are almost as large in actual inches as they would have been, had I been using a low res screen. So my screen is not filled with tons of itty bitty text. Instead, it has somewhat more text than "normal".

But, because of the high res, the fonts are formed more perfectly, making them much easier to read. In fact, this makes it possible to have the font sizes a little (or a lot) smaller than I would want them on a low res screen, in inches in real life.

So I go for some combination of easier on the eyes, and more on the screen.

In Windows, if you try to make certain text sizes too big, things can break (become impossible to see or press) but with each new generation, this becomes less of a problem as M$ adjusts to some very hi res screens being out there.

I find it less of a problem in Linux, perhaps because I'm not on win 7 yet.

Surfing as a user, easy, hit Ctrl-+, or use a firefox extension to automatically scale, very easy. There are also some tools meant for disabled people that can help.

Similar for office type apps, most of the time, at least for light use.

However, as a developer, your issues will be different. Also, not everyone works the same way. I've seen posts over the years, tho not on this forum so much, of people very unhappy with high res.

So yes, good idea to try it out in a store, and if not sure, go with your gut, rather than expect you can adjust to what people here often think is better.

[Yacek]

I do have a desktop with a dual monitor set up, so I do have it as an option... But, who wouldn't rather be on the couch with a laptop? The transition from dual 17" monitors to a single 17" widescreen wasn't too bad, but I think 15.4" is going to be an adjustment, and I don't think a 14" would be realistic. Now if I could afford a second for pure portability that would be sweet.

The NVidia Quadro 570M sounds like a great card, however native resolution of 1920x1200 sounds pretty wild. One hand I'd have lots of screen real estate, but how small is everything? Can you read text at 10px?

I guess what I really need to do is get out somewhere where I can see the resolutions up and running.

Thanks for the inputs so far!

Indeed... 1920x1200 on 15,4inch screen looks impressive, but it's a bit hard to work on daily basis... some things are definetely too small

Personally I use my thinkpad as a desktop with external 21inch wide monitor with 1920x1080. For me it's perfect combination - but as I sais - my tp61p serves as a desktop with the lid closed all the time
If you wanna play on the couch, go for T60 with ATI card.

[ArrayInteractive]

I just noticed this one, going for $499

Lenovo ThinkPad T60 laptop 15.4" Widescreen LCD - 1680 x 1050 Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 @ 2.00 GHz 2GB RAM Ati Radeon X1400-512MB

Sounds like a good way to go for the money, although they didn't mention any warranty left on it.

[eyestrain]

I have one of those, planning to sell at some point soon. Glad to hear it goes for that much! Mine is in fantastic shape, never left home.

The screen might be too high res for you, and the card to slow though. And it maxes out at 3gb.

Not trying to tempt you with mine, not really ready to sell yet.

But I might be able to answer specific subjective or objective q's about the unit. Mine is a 8743-CTO.

Interesting portions of my parts shipped:

29R7074 NOTAFRU COA LABEL, WINDOWS XP-HOME EDITION:LABEL
41A1274 41W1411 FRU ASM INTEL CORE-2 DUO PROC T7200 2GHZ
42T0328 0000000 15.4 INCH LCD DISPLAY:FLAT PANEL DISPLAY
42T0852 42T0853 GOLAN WLAN ADAPTER CARD FRU
42T3109 42T3143 KEYBOARD FRU
42X6929 44C3714 PLANAR FRU (ati 1400)
92P1142 42T4777 SONY 6 CELL BATTERY FRU

It's a recalled battery, I believe. I've got to get around to sending it, and selling the new one, before the value drops any more.

If you had your heart set on this model, I would part with it sooner than planned for a good price, but I'm really not sure if it's the right one for you, as stated above.

Not right one for me because I'm overly sensitive to noise, and am building quiet intel-graphics systems. Also found I prefer 4:3 screens, which is purely a personal preference. If you like/need widescreen for work or preference, stick with it.

Edited: model info, etc.

[ArrayInteractive]

Thanks for the offer! I'm still not totally sure, as you point out, if that resolution would be right or the card powerful enough. I'm leaning a little more towards the wxga. The resolution seem a bit low, but I have to keep reminding myself that I'll be going to a smaller screen overall. I wonder why they don't do a 15.4" screen at 1440? Seems like a big step from 1280 to 1680.

In the mean time I'll keep drooling over the W500's...

[eyestrain]

Really think if you can, you should go to big stores that have laptops sitting out, and try out those that have similar monitors to the ones in TPs you're considering. Similar size, shape, resolution, matte/glossy, etc. You might quickly decide against or for something, make your decision easier.

Just don't get sold on some other brand!