Thinkpads Forum

While doing some corrections to a maintenance system, my employer gave me a T60 to use. I am looking into replacing my T43 with a T60 sometime during this year, so it is very interesting to be able to use and test the T60 properly this way. I really like this laptop, and the things I like about the T43 seems improved. But I have a couple of questions:

-It seems to have the same nice Flexview screen as I have on the T43, but I believe those are limited to the T60s running 4:3, and not available on the Widescreen ones?

-This T60, and a couple of others I have found for sale here in Norway are all T2400 1.83GHz Dual Core machines. (I believe this is Core Duo and not Core 2 Duo?) That is a bit slower than the fastest CPUs the T60 was available with, which are up to 2.33GHz. Should I rather wait for a faster CPU'd machine to come around for sale, or isn't this such a big difference? I am planning to run Win7 on it. With maxed out RAM, I believe even a 1.83GHz T60 will be faster than my 1.7GHz single core T43, but I am planning to keep the T60 for a while, so I would like to buy something that stays up to date.

-Another option would be to upgrade the processor myself, if that's a plug n play operation. I don't know the limitaions there; if all motherboards can run all kinds of processors, need for BIOS upgrades, etc. I am not too keen on doing "fixes" to make it work.


Thank you for any answers!

Yes, only the 15" sxga+ or uxga resolution screens are flexviews.

The cpu on the T60 are socketed. You can upgrade the cpu up to the T7600. The T7200 probably offers the best value, though most things aren't very processor intensive. I don't know that a T7200 offers much of a difference over a T2400 for listening to music or surfing the internet.

If you're looking for a performance bump, a SSD, particularly the Intel versions, are more likely to offer it than the cpu unless you've got a need to run the cpu at high capacity frequently.

Ok.

I am still debating a little bit if I should go with a 4:3 or a widescreen. I really like the Flexviews, but I don't know if the non-Flexviews are that bad. My T42 non-IPS/Flexview vs. my T43 IPS/Flexview is a huge difference, but that's probably not a valid comparison. I suspect that evolution has made the T6x non-IPS screens better than the older T4x ones. Anyone with a direct comparison here?

So if I understand you right, the fact that I move from a single core to a dual core alone gives a significant improvement, and that the speed of the processor don't nescessarily matter that much? Anyway, if a CPU upgrade can be done easily, I have the option of doing that later if I see that is nescessary. I don't use that many processor intensive applications, so maxing out the RAM and using a SSD could probably give more increase in performance than a faster CPU, like you suggest.

You are correct about the performance, I would say that nearly any T60 will outperform nearly any T43. It just a newer, faster generation of everything, from the CPU to the bus speed to the video system to the disk system. The T60's perform very well.

Regarding the widescreen question, I must say that the 15.4" format has grown on me. I now use a T60 or T500 15.4" widescreen everyday, plus I have a Z61p 15.4" widescreen test machine. Both the WSXGA+ and WUXGA resolutions are excellent.

Regarding widescreen quality, it varies quite a bit from machine to machine. Lenovo used many manufacturers and even models from manufacturers varied over time. Some appear washed out with poor viewing angles, but some are bright with very nice colors and good viewing angles. I have a T60p with a really nice 15.4" display. It is very bright, great colors, has even lighting and very good viewing angles.

While there is some variation with IPS displays, all look great compared to any other LCD. If you go for a 15.4" widescreen, make sure you see very good pictures of it first OR see it in person.

That makes me more confident in settling with a 1.83GHz if I don't find any faster ones for sale.

I am more confused what to do with the monitor. My initial thoughts tell me to stick with the 15" 4:3 Flexview. On the other hand I know that the IPS monitors and the 4:3 format died with the T60, so the next time I am buying a newer Thinkpad, widescreen will be my only choice. And just like you mention, I am pretty sure the widescreen format will grow on me as well over time. So I am not quite sure what to do here. I guess a combination of price and availability will eventually decide what I end up with.

Norway Pad wrote:I am more confused what to do with the monitor

While I haven't seen a T6* WUXGA screen in person, I have seen several T6* WSXGA+ screens and they looked exceptionally nice for TN screens. Not as good as IPS, but still very decent. And from what I have heard, the WUXGA panels are very nice too. So, if I were you, I would pick a screen simply based on its resolution, disregarding whether it's IPS or non.

Ever since I started using 1920x1200 screens (first on a 15.4" Dell Inspiron 6000, and subsequently on a bunch of Dell 2407WFP and 2408WFP desktop LCDs) four years ago, I have found UXGA and WSXGA+ to be too low for serious work. If you come across a T6* with 1920x1200, go for it -- you will find the extra real estate very useful.

On the other hand, if you aren't a resolution freak like I am, both 1680x1050 and 1600x1200 would probably be adequate. But it's impotant to realize that 1680x1050 actually has *fewer* pixels than 1600x1200, specifically, 1,764,000 versus 1,920,000 pixels. Nonetheless, if you tend to view two windows/documents side by side and/or if you watch a lot of widescreen videos, the 1680x1050 may still be the better choice, whereas if you prefer to have more vertical real estate, then the 1600x1200 would obviously be better.

While I agree that WSXGA+ LCDs seen on T60/p and later models are quite nice for a standard TN panel, I have yet to see a WUXGA LCD on a ThinkPad that I would deem acceptable.

If you need the horsepower, W500 with WSXGA+ is the way to go. Should the LCD be more important, T60/p with an IPS screen is your last resort...unless you're up to building a FrankenPad.

Good luck.

Up to now I have worked only with the 4:3 format, so it's hard to tell how the widescreen will work for me. I have used my wife's Dell Latitude widescreen (Ugh, did I just admit that?) briefly, but the 16:9 format feels unfamiliar for me at this point. I also tend to use my Thinkpads with a port replicator and an external monitor, so I'm not that dependent on being able to view two windows next to each other on one screen. The ability to see more of the vertical area without needing to scroll is just as useful.

Of course, I will most likely learn to like the widescreen, and for any newer Thinkpad I buy in the future, I will be forced to go with WS anyway. So the question is if I am going to let the T60 be my last 4:3 and let technology/screen quality come a bit further before I jump on to WS. I am actually typing this on a T60 with IPS, and I feel I could live with this screen for many years to come.

Thank you, the input from you guys will definately help me make a more informed choice.

Ajkula: Nice "portable" computers, but the W-series is probably overkill for me.

The T500 also has the WSXGA+ option, and I believe it is the same LCD as a W500. I had one for a bit and it was a very nice LCD.

Norway Pad wrote:I feel I could live with this screen for many years to come.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree becaue IPS panels become dim much more rapidly than TN screens, like twice as fast. So, take that into account when you try to decide between IPS and widescreen.

Just as FYI

I have been running my T60P (2623-DDU) with an upgraded (installed myself) T7600 for 6 months now... Before the CPU upgrade, I installed an early SSD (Samsung RBX series). My OS is WIN 7 64 bit...

I am VERY happy with this set up.. really love the flex view and the overall performance is outstanding.

I use the computer to datalog in my drag/street car and I edit / render BluRay HD video with zero problems.

I have considered upgrading to a W series but ... am very satisfied with the modified T60p

Good luck

I just picked up a T60p with the 1600x1200 IPS screen. I've never seen a better laptop screen. Its comparable to my PVA and IPS desktop monitors.

As far as performance, its fine. There's not much wrong with any of the t60 processors. The only thing that any laptop needs is an SSD and maxed RAM and you're flying.

Cheers,
Mitch

pianowizard wrote:Unfortunately, I have to disagree becaue IPS panels become dim much more rapidly than TN screens, like twice as fast. So, take that into account when you try to decide between IPS and widescreen.

I wasn't aware, but I have noticed that my old T43 Flexview is a bit dimmer than other and newer laptops I have used. I guess that has given me the habit of working with pretty dark screens. My brand new Lenovo S10-2 (Awfully bright screen) is turned down to 1/3 brightness.

So far I have only found 15" T60s for sale, but this has no hurry, so I will keep on watching the market for a while. I do have a suspicion that I want to go with an IPS, though.

Thanks for all the advices and input!

If you get a good 15" T60, even with XGA, there's a guy selling brand new 15" IPS Flexview LCDs for T6x in the Marketforum!
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 1&p=579160

To let you guys know what I eventually decided to do, I can mention that I ordered a T60 today. I played "safe" and went with what I am used to, ie. the 15" screen. I ordered it from a company here in Norway that has bought up loads of T60 14" and 15" from Statoil (An oil company) and they give 1 year warranty on them. I told that the computer MUST have a Flexview, and they would double check before it shipped. Other specs are 2Gb RAM, 1.83Ghz Processor and 60Gb HDD. So I would like to max out the RAM to 3Gb, and I guess these probably have 2 x 1Gb modules, which means I need to swap one for a 2Gb. Over time this will get a W7 install, so will also need a bigger hard drive, or maybe even a SSD if I have a lot of money to spare. Uhm ,not likely..

So finally I am taking the step up to the T60 club, and the T43 can enjoy it's retirement years as my backup computer.

I think you'll be very happy with a T60 with a flexview. My T60p is awesome, especially the screen. The only thing I don't like is the GPU, the FireGL5200 is just too hot and power hungry for a laptop application. And its very hard to underclock/undervolt as well.

If I had to choose again, I would go with a T60 + flexview.

Cheers,
Mitch

FYI, you can swap the ATI 5200 T60 mobo with any other T60 mobo and use all of your other parts. You can even use an Intel GPU motherboard for a very cool running machine. (I'm considering that "downgrade" myself for one of my T60p's.)

Very interesting. Would the 945GM drive a UXGA 1600x1200 flexview fine?

I wonder if an intel GPU mobo swap would go nicely with one of those socket-P merom U7600 10w core 2 duos on ebay... $80...

Cheers,
Mitch

I don't know about the U7600, but the Intel GPU will definitely drive the UXGA.

U7600 will NOT work and pin-modding has exploded in the faces of several users around here...

Yes for UXGA.
No for U7600.

As a runner up option, the 965GM with the UXGA and the T7600 seems like a fast and cool combo.