Thinkpads Forum

Hi,

my t41 just died, and I am looking at the T6x series as the last chance to get a sxga+ screen in 14 inch. Therefor I have some questions:

- are there any typical problems with this machine ( as e.g. the flex issue with the t4x)? What to ask to double check on ebay?
- can I freely exchange hard disks, or is there a white list as with the t43?
- is there a screen model better suited for outdoor work?

Thanks!

ralf

With prices the way they are, you may as well buy a T60.
These are the current workhorses in an affordable price range.
For cool and long(er) running, look for Intel integrated GPU models.

Check our Marketforum for reliable machines, rather than eBay.
You may pay a bit more because of higher shipping, but 'our' sellers rarely (if ever) let you down!

T6x XGA LCDs will work in any same size T4x.
SXGA+ or UXGA need an ATI GPU in the T4x.

T4x XGA LCDs will work in any same size T6x.
SXGA+ or UXGA need a special EDID chip, which most T4x LCDs do not have!

Hard disks form a T4x (IDE) will NOT work/fit in a T6x (SATA) unless in a 2nd HDD adapter.

For outdoor work, look into Panasonic Toughbook.

In addition to that:

T60/T61 have no whitelist for hard drives - it will take any SATA drive, HDD or SSD. However - speed will be limited to SATA1 (150MB/s). Not an issue for mechanical drives, which cannot reach that anyway, and only a theoretical bottleneck for SSDs (with marginal effect in real world usage).

T60 can only recognize 3GB of RAM. You'll have to go up to T61 if you need more than that.

T60 (and T61 4:3 14" in some extent) are very nice machines. Very sturdy, good form factor. If not the advantage of the IPS screens in the 15" 4:3 models, I'd say the 14" 4:3 T60 is the ultimate Thinkpad.

Having owned one for the past 3 years and used regularly for my work, I haven't seen a single fatal flaw. A couple of small issues:

* Right palmrest corner may break (happened twice to me)
* If carried regularly in a stuffed bag, the trackpoint will leave a permanent mark on the LCD (especially if the soft rim type is used)
* From some reason, the LCDs tend to develop white pressure points. I've seen 3 of them which had it after ~2 years, all close to the right edge. Probably also affected by carrying regularly in a bag.

I suppose if I were to want just one 14" SXGA+ ThinkPad, I would limit my search to a T61. The 4:3 14.1" T61's are not all that common, but they do exist. And, at this point, used prices are close or overlap used T60 prices (at least in the U.S.)

I'd also limit my search to only the Intel integrated video models, since NVidia GPUs run hot and occasionally separate from the motherboard! Plus these are really good performers, too.

Any of the 4:3 T61's can be upgraded significantly with Bluetooth, SXGA+, fast processors and lots of RAM, which can be fully accessed by 64-bit operating systems.

Bottom line, a T61 will give you a little more upgrading breathing room. Especially important if you plan on keeping it for a while.

I am using a 4:3 14 inch T61 with intel video and SXGA+. So SXGA+ are not limited to Nvidia.

Understood. What I meant was that one strategy could be to pick up any (XGA or SXGA+) Intel video 4:3 T61 since they are somewhat hard to find, then upgrade as you like.

Certainly, SXGA+ equipped Intel video 4:3 T61's exist.

If you're going to look at the T60, you might want to look at the R60 too. It's slightly heavier/thicker than the T60 and lacks the stronger lid, but can be configured the same. I've had two of them. Both have been excellent. If you can find one, it'll probably cost less.

If you're looking for a Thinkpad that can be used outdoors, T400 did offer a 680 nit screen, which will work quite well outdoors, though I suspect will be hard to find and it's WXGA.

In the Dell ATG review, there's an outdoor picture of it here next to a T43. The ATG I believe had a 500 nit screen, which is not as bright as the T400 with the high brightness LCD.

As far as any typical problems a T60 may have, my T60 developed loose hinges again 6 months after being replaced at the depot. I will replace them again right before the warranty expires. In my opinion, T60s are the best usable classic IBM Thinkpad around.

My trusty T60 has a yellowish tone at the VGA port. LCD coloration was fine. Never had it fixed.

A little late to the party, but just wanted to throw in my 2c as a 14" SXGA+ T60 user...

The T61 4:3 is a superior choice if graphics power is not a big consideration. A T61 with nVidia graphics is a problem waiting to happen (that run of GPUs in all manufacturers, not just Lenovo) were faulty when they left the factory. Better not to set yourself up for a highly likely part failure. This leaves you with the best choice in a T61 being the 4:3 SXGA+ with Intel graphics--a somewhat unusual combination. They're out there, but it'll take more work to find a good one than a good T60 that meets your requirements. On the plus side, you can get faster/newer iterations of the Core2Duo processors in one, and don't have the 3GB RAM ceiling that the T60 will give you.

The T60 4:3 14" SXGA+ is far more common, and was available with Intel, ATI X1300, and X1400 graphics. The graphics speed is inversely proportional to the heat generated...but none of the chips were prone to problems like the T61's Nvidia chip. There was also a T60p with a 4:3 14" screen as well; it'll cost you more, and will absolutely run the hottest of any T60. However, if you're looking for the highest graphics performance from a 4:3 T-series, this is it. Whichever you choose, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a good one--The VAST majority of T60s were 4:3, and the SXGA+ wasn't uncommon. On the down side, most T60s shipped with Core Duo (not Core2Duo) processors, so if you want 64-bit, you'll have to upgrade. (No big deal, but an additional cost consideration). Also, the best Core2Duo you can put in a T60 is slower/hotter than the best Core2Duo you can put in a T61 (different chipsets/sockets). A bigger consideration is the 3GB RAM limit--not an issue in a T61.

My choice (as you can see from my sig) was the T60 with ATI graphics...and I'd happily do it again if I had it to do all over. Regardless of which one you choose, so long as you steer clear of the T61s with Nvidia graphics, you should be getting a very solid, reliable machine. If heat is a big deal for you, steer clear of a T60p, and know that the coolest machines will be the Intel graphics ones, regardless of whether it's a T60 or 61. A good balance of heat/performance is a T60 with a slower Core2Duo and ATI X1300/X1400...but your needs may vary.

Good luck and have fun!

Fortunately back in 2008 I was able to get a 'rare' T61 4:3 SXGA+ with Intel graphics.
This is my main machine and have already upgraded it to 4GB of RAM (although I use Windows XP at the moment so only 3GB usable)
Certainly the machine feels solid, the keyboard is not of my liking compared to my old T42p NMB.
The HDD was replaced from 80GB to 250GB (Hitachi 5K500.B single platter - no annoying noises!)
I'm using the slower Penryn based CPU (T8100 @ 2.1GHz), I would probably upgrade to a T9300 when the prices rocket down, no heat whatsoever.
My machine lacks Bluetooth which I will be upgrading this year.

The downsizes I've seen comparing this machine to my old T42p are:
- Volume buttons controlled by software rather than hardware (not sure if this is the case also with the T60) more like an annoyance
- Keyboard not on-par with T4x
- Low brightness screen!!
On a well illuminated room the screen seems as if it's brightness is on the lowest setting (of course comparing this to a Macbook Pro)
It feels like I'm using a 2006 screen! (Which I think it's around the manufacture date of the screen which according to my research it's a Toshiba display)

If you can find a rare T61 SXGA+ I'd say go for it. The last Thinkpad 'gem' that will even support 8GB of RAM.