Thinkpads Forum

Ive been looking around for a laptop for school and the t60p looks good enough for me but ive heard its bulkier than the t60( which looks good too for my needs)

Both laptops have good processing power and GPUS but, what are the main differences? Id love to see picture comparison between the t60 next to t60p.

Are you looking to compare two specific configurations? If so, please post them.

In general:

Externally, T60 and T60p are exactly the same. For both there exist 14" and 15" 4:3 models and 15.4" widescreen models. The bigger models will naturally be bulkier, but that depends on the exact model, not on T60 vs T60p in general.

The main difference is that the T60p have the more powerful graphics card - FireGL V5200/V5250. Regular T60s come with Intel GMA950 or ATI X1300/X1400.

The downside of the more powerful GPU is extra heat. While it does not seem that the extra heat leads to higher overall failure rate, the T60p, especially in 14" flavor is one of the hottest Thinkpads. Regular T60 will heat less, and the ones with Intel GPU are rather cool.

Another difference is that the T60p 15" 4:3 models were available with 1600x1200 screens, whereas regular T60s weren't. That does not mean that every T60p has this screen, but the option exists.

In general, T60p were configured with more powerful components / more extras. This can mean any of the following - faster CPU/HD, more RAM, extended batteries, bluetooth, fingerprint readers. Some low-end T60s on the other hand could start with even single core CPUs and few features.

Again, that is not to say you cannot find well-specced regular T60s. There is quite a big overlap between the available configurations, but T60p will tend to be on the higher end of the scale.

With that said, given a similar configuration for the rest of the components, I would prefer a regular T60 to a T60p, since the extra GPU power does not matter to me (and is next to meaningless in today's world anyway), and I would be avoiding the extra heat and the price premium.

dr_st wrote: With that said, given a similar configuration for the rest of the components, I would prefer a regular T60 to a T60p, since the extra GPU power does not matter to me (and is next to meaningless in today's world anyway), and I would be avoiding the extra heat and the price premium.

Why do you think that GPU power is next to meaningless in today's world?

Pardon my inaccurate phrasing.

What I meant is that the extra GPU power the FireGL-equipped T60p offers over the Radeon-equipped T60 is next to meaningless, since they are both far behind the average modern laptop GPU when it comes to 3D performance.

And yes, it is still opinion only, so not all will agree.

One place where you may need the FireGL is some CAD applications, which are designed to only work properly with professional graphics cards (FireGL/Quadro), and not consumer models (Radeon/GeForce). Then it is no longer a question of performance, but of plain compatibility.

dr_st wrote:Are you looking to compare two specific configurations? If so, please post them.

I decided no to because I do not know the different configurations on these machines.What I do know is that T60's come with the GMA950/X1300/X1400 and a dual core compatible with its chipset ( t2400 and alike). T60p I do not know what processors are compatible with its chipset. I have a spare t5470 1.6ghz merom and I want to use it if Its compatible.

dr_st wrote: In general:
Externally, T60 and T60p are exactly the same. For both there exist 14" and 15" 4:3 models and 15.4" widescreen models. The bigger models will naturally be bulkier, but that depends on the exact model, not on T60 vs T60p in general.

I want a 14" model of course. If the price is lower with the 15" or 15.4" models(of course meeting my needs which is a Dual Core and X1400/V5200) Id buy the one with the lowest price. Are any of these screens FlexiView or have almost the same quality?

dr_st wrote: The main difference is that the T60p have the more powerful graphics card - FireGL V5200/V5250. Regular T60s come with Intel GMA950 or ATI X1300/X1400.

Well my background in computers is overclocking and alike, My main desktop packs quite a punch when it comes to all that. I do a lot of video edition and GMA950 wont help me at all. Also I do some casual gaming and the game with the highest requirements is Starcraft 2. If x1400 lets me play with the lowest settings I'm perfectly fine

dr_st wrote: The downside of the more powerful GPU is extra heat. While it does not seem that the extra heat leads to higher overall failure rate, the T60p, especially in 14" flavor is one of the hottest Thinkpads. Regular T60 will heat less, and the ones with Intel GPU are rather cool.

Good to know, Ill buy a stand with fans or maybe build one from scratch.

dr_st wrote: Another difference is that the T60p 15" 4:3 models were available with 1600x1200 screens, whereas regular T60s weren't. That does not mean that every T60p has this screen, but the option exists.

Mmh can you give me a few different configurations of the t60 and t60p so I can choose any?

dr_st wrote: In general, T60p were configured with more powerful components / more extras. This can mean any of the following - faster CPU/HD, more RAM, extended batteries, bluetooth, fingerprint readers. Some low-end T60s on the other hand could start with even single core CPUs and few features.

Again, that is not to say you cannot find well-specced regular T60s. There is quite a big overlap between the available configurations, but T60p will tend to be on the higher end of the scale.

Same as above

dr_st wrote: With that said, given a similar configuration for the rest of the components, I would prefer a regular T60 to a T60p, since the extra GPU power does not matter to me (and is next to meaningless in today's world anyway), and I would be avoiding the extra heat and the price premium.

Now Im aware that they are the same size 14" t60 and 14"t60p. Theres more heat output when the GFX card is more powerfull. do they suffer from overheating? all laptops do if you dont clean 'em.

NOTE: What about R60/R61 - Z60/Z61?

The best place to obtain basic hardware descriptions on various Thinkpad models is to download a copy of the Personal Systems Reference You can find the main index at:

http://www.lenovo.com/psref/

For older systems like the '60 and '61 series (in Lenovo-speak they are called "withdrawn" systems), you can find them here:

http://www.lenovo.com/psref/psref_withd ... aimer.html (read the lawyer-speak and click the "Continue" link)

The document you want is the one at the "ThinkPad Notebooks; 2005 to present (withdrawn models)" link. Titled, "ltwbook" (Lenovo Thinkpad Withdrawn (???)), it's currently a 14MB file, not the 3.18MB that is says in the listing. This document lists the basic hardware features of each model, includes options that were available and has examples of some of the more popular model types that were sold. It is not a complete listing of every variation. For that, you would need to look at the specific Hardware Maintenance Manual (HMM) for the system in question. An index for the HMMs is here:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 39298.html

Assuming you have the seven-character TYPE code for a system, then you can plug it into the "Quick Path" box at this site:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... OME-LENOVO

and obtain a brief description of the configuration. For example, entering 8741-C4U gets you this:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... ry=8741C4U

T60 and T60p take exactly the same CPUs. T5470 is not compatible.

Only 15" 4:3 SXGA+/UXGA screens are Flexview. 14" 4:3 are nowhere close in quality, but are usable.

The 15.4" wide WSXGA+ screen is said to be quite good for a TN screen.

There is no sense in me giving you possible configurations "to choose", because you have to choose from what's available, on eBay, on these forums, Craigslist, whatever.

Hardware-wise: R60/Z61 are same as T60, Z60 is older (same as T43). R61 is same as T61.

All very good and accurate info so far. I regulary use three T60's, so i will add a little info. One is a 15.4" T60p with an UXGA LCD and a T7600 CPU, one is a T60p with a 15.4" widescreen LCD and a T7200 CPU, the other is a T60 with the Intel integrated video and a T5500 CPU.

My first comment is that for non-resource intensive apps, like Interent, Outlook, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc., I really can barely tell the difference between them. In fact, the one with the fastest hard drive is always faster. I've moved an Intel X-25 SSD between them and that makes more of a difference than any CPU or GPU for my needs. Even the T60 with a T5500 and a good hard drive is a snappy machine.

Second, you might want to consider battery life, the V5250 GPU (both of my T60p's have this one), use about 20Wh, so a good 6 cell battery lasts about 2.5 hours. The Intel video board machine is closer to 15Wh.

Regarding the heat, I've owned several, maybe 2-3 dozen T60's and T60p's. I just can't figure out the fan use. Identically configured machines will have different fan performance. Some will be cool and quiet and some fans will run early and rarely shut off. The fan in one of my T60p's runs less than the fan in some of the base T60's I've seen. And yes, I make sure the BIOS is up to date, fans are clean and Arctic Silver is applied. Either there are slight revision differences for motherboard chips that control the fans or the fans themselves may have production variation. It seems to be luck of the draw. All that being said, in general, as you move up in GPU performance, you decrease battery runtime and increase heat/noise.

Finally, regarding 15.4" LCD's, I've owned three T60's with WSXGA+ units, and they ran the gamut from barely acceptable (poor colors and viewing angles) to excellent (deep colors and very good viewing angles). You won't mistake the LCD for a FlexView, but you won't feel like your missing anything when using it either. Again, luck of the draw.

A surprise to me is that I use the 15.4" T60p with a 6 cell battery (to keep the overall weight down) the most. The great screen and wide format LCD really help with spreadsheets and Outlook.

underclocker wrote:All very good and accurate info so far. I regulary use three T60's, so i will add a little info. One is a 15.4" T60p with an UXGA LCD and a T7600 CPU, one is a T60p with a 15.4" widescreen LCD and a T7200 CPU, the other is a T60 with the Intel integrated video and a T5500 CPU.

My first comment is that for non-resource intensive apps, like Interent, Outlook, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc., I really can barely tell the difference between them. In fact, the one with the fastest hard drive is always faster. I've moved an Intel X-25 SSD between them and that makes more of a difference than any CPU or GPU for my needs. Even the T60 with a T5500 and a good hard drive is a snappy machine.

Yes, the only upgrade ill do is a 64gb SSD. I do know the advantages of these drives.. They are amazing!

underclocker wrote: Second, you might want to consider battery life, the V5250 GPU (both of my T60p's have this one), use about 20Wh, so a good 6 cell battery lasts about 2.5 hours. The Intel video board machine is closer to 15Wh.

Regarding the heat, I've owned several, maybe 2-3 dozen T60's and T60p's. I just can't figure out the fan use. Identically configured machines will have different fan performance. Some will be cool and quiet and some fans will run early and rarely shut off. The fan in one of my T60p's runs less than the fan in some of the base T60's I've seen. And yes, I make sure the BIOS is up to date, fans are clean and Arctic Silver is applied. Either there are slight revision differences for motherboard chips that control the fans or the fans themselves may have production variation. It seems to be luck of the draw. All that being said, in general, as you move up in GPU performance, you decrease battery runtime and increase heat/noise.

Perfect, battery life is not that important on my day to day but it is needed. I think there is not a big gap in performance between (correct me if Im wrong of course) the x1400 and the FireGL on the t60p.

underclocker wrote: Finally, regarding 15.4" LCD's, I've owned three T60's with WSXGA+ units, and they ran the gamut from barely acceptable (poor colors and viewing angles) to excellent (deep colors and very good viewing angles). You won't mistake the LCD for a FlexView, but you won't feel like your missing anything when using it either. Again, luck of the draw.

A surprise to me is that I use the 15.4" T60p with a 6 cell battery (to keep the overall weight down) the most. The great screen and wide format LCD really help with spreadsheets and Outlook.

The display is not very important, aslong as it does its job and its durable. I like the 14'' t60, do you know the weight of this laptop?

@rkawakami
Thank you, ive been looking at this document for the past hour.
z61m is quite nice too.

@dr_st
Thank you, 14" is the way to go I guess.

14" T60 weighs a bit under 2.3kg with 6-cell battery, about 2.45kg with 9-cell.