Thinkpads Forum

Hi all. It has come time to retire my 15" T42p FlexView workhorse. While I never foresaw it, I seem to be pushing it too hard for it to keep up with me. Investigating my upgrade paths, I decided that the best option would be to build a T60/T61 FrankenPad. The reasons might be apparent to some, but for reference and to list, they are:

---The need for the T61/p motherboard---
- Ability to use Penryn CPUs
- Ability to accept Intel TurboCache mPCIe card
- The Quadro 140M GPU (I would like the 570m of the T61p planar, but cost is a bit prohibitive--that's for a later upgrade)
- Ability to address 8GB of RAM
- The integrated card reader

---The need for the T60/p chassis---
- 15" 4:3 chassis (I find 15.4" machines too large and I don't much care for the 14" widescreen format; 15" is a good balance between workspace and mid-range portability, IMO)
- Ability to house an IPS display
- The look! (specifically the *cough* symmetrical display bezel...)

I will be documenting the whole process here for others to look at in the future (hence the FRUs and extraneous info)

Anxious as I was (and still am!), I have already purchased the following items:

- T60 15" complete machine (sans drives) 1951-58U
- T61 14" 4:3 motherboard w/ Quadro NVS 140M GPU (FRU 42W7873, Base shows 8892-02U)
- T61/R61 PCMCIA/Card Reader Assembly (FRU 42X3831)

Given what I already have, I have a few questions as to the parts that I can and should get.

The T60 that I purchased has an XGA LCD. I plan to replace it with a UXGA IPS display or, if all goes well, a QXGA IPS display. In either case, as far as my understanding goes, I shouldn't need a new LCD cable (FRU 91P6985), right? (Based on what I have been reading, the LCD cable doesn't affect the signaling like it did in the T4x series as this information is done through the LCD's EDID. Please correct me if I'm wrong). I would, however, need a new inverter (FRU 42T0077 XGA to FRU 42T0079 SXGA+/UXGA) for the upgrade to UXGA. Will this inverter also work with a QXGA display should I elect to upgrade further? That reminds me... does anyone know where to get an affordable IAQX10N? Would the IAQX10S suffice? (looking for opinions--is the high refresh rate terribly noticeable? How is the brightness compared to a T42p UXGA IPS?, etc.)

Also, I understand that I will need to flash the EDID of an LCD for it to work properly with the T60/61 [if it wasn't an original T60/61 FRU, that is). Does this mean I can use a T42p UXGA IPS display with this machine (as I have a spare)? Can anyone confirm the steps in Tgun603's post?

Now down to the CPU. Since this FrankenPad will be my new workhorse, I would like one of the newer Penryn CPUs. If the Type-Model code on the T61 base is correct, according to ltwbook.pdf, this board has an 800MHz FSB. Based on a few posts (namely the info in this thread, I am 90% sure I can use a T9300 (SLAQG/SLAYY) or a T9500 (SLAQH/SLAYX). Can anyone confirm this? What hinders me from using a 1066MHz FSB Penryn CPU in the future?

Does anybody have the little bezel for the PCMCIA/Card Reader Slot (FRU 42W2518)? I can't seem to find it anywhere for any reasonable price.

Hmm. I think those are all the questions for now. In short:

- The existing LCD cable in this XGA T60 can stay, right? (Though, I will likely replace it with a bluetooth-capable one)
- Will the SXGA+/UXGA inverter work for a QXGA IPS display?
- Does anyone know where to get an affordable (<$80 USD) IAQX10N display?
- How is the quality of the IAQX10S? Is the higher refresh rate and lower brightness terribly noticeable? (Especially compared to the stock T42p N150U3-L01 IPS display)
- Can I flash my existing T42p N150U3-L01 to work with the FrankenPad?
- Will PonyProg do the job? (explained in Tgun603's post; link above)
- Can I use the T9300/T9500 Socket P 800MHz CPUs with this machine without issues?
- What limits me from upgrading to a 1066MHz Penryn in the future with this planar (FRU 42W7873)?
- Does anyone have the bezel for a T61/R61 14" Widescreen PCMCIA/Card Reader? Would it even fit in the T60 15" chassis? I wouldn't mind modifying it.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

---Yet To Get---
-Core 2 Duo CPU (hoping for T9300/T9500)
-T61/p Heatsink
-UXGA or QXGA IPS LCD
-T6x Extended Battery
-T60/p 15" 4:3 HDD Cover/Caddy/Rails
-RAM (Thinking 4GB for now)
-Intel TurboCache card - Purchased
-Bluetooth Card - Purchased
-T60 SXGA+/UXGA Inverter w/ BT

-Eddie

Hello Eddie,

Sounds like a very interesting project!
You should be aware that the Quadro NVS 140M is part of the G84 GPU series from Nvidia suffering from a thermal design issue, which may wreck the GPU at some point. See http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia ... ,6121.html . But i'm not sure if all are affected, or if it's a very limited batch of GPUs which would have died out by now either way. Not that the FireGL is free of trouble either, since it runs hot and may experience VRAM corruption at some point.

I'll have to look up informations regarding the LCD cable (i'll do it tomorrow) to be able to answer. XGA only really needs single link LVDS and some connectors are thus not used - so Lenovo might as well manufacture a smaller flex cable with fewer connections for XGA equipped laptops. The SXGA+ and UXGA laptops use the same cable, though.

- The inverter will also work with the QXGA panel, yes.
- Look in the Marketplace Forums, or maybe Ebay - and definitely taobao.com. Paying sellers on the latter site can be a bit cumbersome though.
- I don't personally notice a single difference between 60 and 50 Hz LCDs. They don't really flicker due to Vcom/common voltage correction either way.
- IAQX10N/IAQX10S... doesn't matter. It seems that only IBM supplied the S version, while the N versions were found in some of NEC VersaPro's. Some are manufactured in Japan and the latest batches were manufactured in the Philippines. No difference in image quality (i have seen both, but use one from the Philippines).
- The QXGA is indeed a little less bright, but still bright enough for most uses.
- Yes, you can use your T42p LCD if you want. Chances are that it might already have a complete EDID containing standard and extended timings. This is because the T42p LCDs are a whole new revision compared to the QXGA display. The QXGAs i have experience with contained a more or less empty EDID.

As I understand it, there seems to be some issues with Powerstrip and Nvidia chipsets (or at least obtaining write access to the EEPROM) - if this is the case, then yes, the listed approach is correct.

And yes, PonyProg2000 works a charm. The EEPROM type to select is 24C02.

Oh about the stuff you have to get:
- The T61/p heatsink: Remember that you also need a keyboard spacer/clip - otherwise the keyboard keys around A, S and D won't work due to pad material making direct content to the perforated backside of the keyboard. For some reason this spacer/clip is not included when you order a heatsink. As it seems, they want to sell you these brackets in a set (42W3649) featuring some stuff you probably won't need.
- Battery: Since you're in the US, Lenovo Outlet might still carry the 9-cell batteries for the T6x series, which according to feedback on forums seem to be in perfect working order. Otherwise, take a look at the maintenance manuals for T500, T510, W500 and W510 and part numbers for batteries. Note that all the part numbers for the 9 cell batteries are basically all different. What is more surprising is that they all fit in a T6x series laptop too. So ebay might be of help here.
- Wasn't the Intel Turbocache card pretty overrated when it was released? I haven't followed discussions on how it progressed, but it might not be worth hunting down for too long.

B.R.,
Troels

Sounds like a great project! I have a T9300 pulled from a T61 for sale. PM me if you're interested.

mr.motoring wrote:Sounds like a great project! I have a T9300 pulled from a T61 for sale. PM me if you're interested.

PM Sent.

Thanks for the reply, Troels.

Re: The nVidia issues. Can these issues be prevented with good thermal paste and proper maintenance or is it an internal design flaw? The article mentions thermal cycling, which would induce creep of the BGA--theoretically this can be mitigated if it were well cooled so the temp difference between operating and 'completely off' isn't so extreme-- ooor is it much more severe?

Do you have any images of that clip? I also have a T61 14" WS on my hands for repair; is that clip also in this model?

For parts, I'm definitely an avid eBay user

I'll definitely keep a lookout for affordable T5xx batteries (The Z6x batteries will also work in the T6x). As far as the TurboCache goes: Yes, it won't speed up every operation like it was originally touted to, but it works the way any cache should. I do a lot of repetitive things with many of the same programs, so operations like that would benefit from the 1GB of HDD cache that the TurboCache card provides--it's basically a significant boost for the usual 8-32MB of cache that hard drives have on-board.

I'll also have a look at the Marketplace and taobao.

If anyone has a UXGA IPS notebook AND a QXGA IPS notebook, can I get a photo comparison of the two at maximum brightness? It might also be helpful to me if I knew the equivalent brightness level in IBM's OSD terms (i.e. is the QXGA at maximum (7) brightness equivalent to the UXGA's brightness at 6?). Just trying to get a frame of reference here as the T42p IPS's brightness is surprisingly important to me once I thought about it.

EDIT: Is there an English option for Taobao? Google Translate is VERY rough on the site and I can't find a language option. Ideas?

Thanks,

-Eddie

As promised: The LCD cable for XGA and SXGA+ and UXGA in T60/p is identical. One cable with bluetooth connector and another version without.

Nvidia issues:
It's an internal design flaw. A good heat-sink would theoretically help some, since it has so much mass and carries a more constant temperature over time, compared to the little GPU. In practice, I'm not sure how much this helps. Nobody except Nvidia has the knowledge regarding this.

Just realized that there are two clip designs depending on whether it's an 14.1"/15.4" or 14.0" (WS). I forgot that there are actually two clips/brackets.
For the 14.0" (WS), there are two brackets, illustrated at page 84/92: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 67760.html
For 15.4" and 14.1" seem to have common brackets, shown at page 88/96: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 67980.html and http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 67979.html (pg 84/92)
I'm not sure, but i think the brackets from the T61 14.0" WS won't fit.


Intel Turbocache:
Ah OK... initially i thought it was just plagued by bad drivers and optimizations and fixes to these that didn't work. But i guess this could also have been caused by Vista after-all and that they've had enough time to iron out the problems.

I have access to a 15" SXGA T42 that should be very close in brightness to the UXGA display. Only problem is that it's defective and may/may not boot. But if it boots, I'll try to make a head-to-head comparison tomorrow and also try to make the T42 equal in brightness. All CCFLs in LCDs lose brightness as time goes by - the SXGA+ is from sometime in 2004 and has seen considerable amount of use. The QXGA is from week 22, 2005 but has not been used as much yet.

Taobao:
Hmm, not sure about that. Tried babelfish.av.com, but that didn't help either. When i found an item i wanted, i clicked the link for the auction and looked in the auction text for an email address. All of those who sell computer equipment ought to know a little English at least so they would be able to reply back. But indeed, it doesn't feel as comfortable as ebay

Taobao Field Guide helps English-speakers buy from China's Taobao.com, or find a good Taobao Agent.
www.taobaofieldguide.com

Sorry for the delay in response... Here's a comparison (QXGA left, SXGA+ right, both flexviews and from Idtech):

http://users.telenor.dk/~dsl35822/P1010034.JPG (Picture warning - 360 KB)

The SXGA+ is indeed a little brighter, but has a green tint in comparison to the QXGA.

http://users.telenor.dk/~dsl35822/P1010036.JPG (Picture warning - 394 KB)
My external monitor (left) with the QXGA at right - there's more agreement regarding what "white" means between these two monitors than between the SXGA+ and the external monitor.

Subjectively, i'd say i needed to turn down the display brightness by 1 notch on the T42 for the two displays to be equally bright. Perhaps ½ more notch is ideally needed, but 2 notches is definitely too much. So 5.5/7 levels on the SXGA+ to make it look identical to 7/7 on the QXGA.

Anything new? Definitely interested in this topic. Subscribed.

I found a source for the QXGA . I'd love it if you can order 2 of them and test the LCDs if they are working (I'll pay you for the second). Since I cant be doing this project right now, I just want to acquire a working LCD Panel.

Sorry for not keeping you guys posted. I'm working with a few budget constraints this week, but I hope to be ordering a parts machine with a T9300 that I can use. Once I have that, I'll resume the project.

@Crashnburn: How much are these panels?

I'm interested in these panels as well. I have a T60p with the 1680x1050 15" wide LCD but want an IPS so I've also been toying with the idea of making a frankenpad like yours. How much have you budgeted/priced out for this frankenpad?

I've been thinking of buying a 15" 4:3 with the IPS just so I can swap the T7200/FireGL 5250 mobo into it so I can have the best of both worlds. Is this pretty straightforward and/or the 5250 compatible with the IPS LCD?

The donor machine is a T2600/FireGL 5200 and while it's a minimal downgrade, I'm not sure I want to make that sacrifice.

Your mobo is compatible with any LCD, incl. a 4:3 IPS.
I don't know if a 15" widescreen mobo fits in 15" 4:3 chassis without major modification. Probably not.
See this photo-comparison of the 14.1" T60/T61: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 99&start=0
I know that you can use the motherboard and fan from a 14.1" 4:3 T61/p in a 15.0" T60/p chassis.

Any T60 experts know better?

The motherboard connector for the ultrabay drive sticks out too far too the right, and so does the SATA connector for the harddrive. So not really a great idea fitting a 15.4" motherboard to a 15" chassis.

See this http://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/04/f7/db4b_12.JPG versus http://www.cnsunnyit.com/product_images ... _00005.jpg

That's what I figured. So my best bet now is to hunt for parts like the OP or just stuff a 15" LCD in here and cover up the edges

It still won't fit because a 15" 4:3 screen is taller than a 15.4" widescreen. It's about the same height as a 17" widescreen. If you want to do this you'll need a 4:3 ThinkPad and a suitable screen.

Talking to guy to arrange a Group buy. The price would be super nice.. to the point that each of us might buy 2 a piece as backup.. maybe even 3 .

PS: I am currently travelling out of the US but have a +972 number I can be reached on. Would anyone be interested in helping me arrange a Group buy here?

I may be interested if I can find a 4:3 with a T7x00 card and 5250 since everything else I can upgrade.

My current setup with the T7200 and the v5250 w/ 512mb vram and a swapped out NMB keyboard is pretty nice but if I could find the dream machine as reviewed on Notebook Check, then I'd be set.

I hope it's ok to tack my questions on, as then they'll be available to others searching on the t60p frankenpad topic.

I'm thinking of moving beyond my still working T42 SXGA system.

Is there any reason this (below) would be a poor choice to base a frankenpad on?

IBM Thinkpad T60P Core Duo 2.16Ghz
Type: 2007-93U

This has a 15.1" 1600x1200 Flexview LCD Screen.

I like the idea of a 15" UXGA, and think well of the screen in my T42, and I also think well of the idea of going to a Core2Duo and 8G of RAM and a real 64 bit OS.

Any warnings or encouragements?

Thanks,
Bret

There's no 8GB of memory on the T60, which is chipset limited to 3GB. If you want 8GB, you'll have to do the FrankenPad.

Other than that, the T60 is an excellent machine for daily usage. In my experience most people don't need 8GB of memory unless you've got a specific need, like running VMs.

Yes, I will very definitely be running VMs, and the machine will be doing heavy development work for several platforms.

Is this a good base for a frankenpad?

Cheers,
Bret

I have a standard UXGA T60p and also a modded UXGA T60. I prefer the T60 rather than the T60p simply because it runs much cooler, quieter and has better battery life because it uses intel integrated graphics. I would recommend an integrated graphics motherboard for your frankenpad.

In my opinion the QXGA panel isn't worth, it does not match the quality of the UXGA panels used in the 15'' 4:3 T60p.

obarriel wrote:and also a modded UXGA T60. I prefer the T60 rather than the T60p simply because it runs much cooler, quieter and has better battery life because it uses intel integrated graphics. I would recommend an integrated graphics motherboard for your frankenpad.

by 'modded' do you mean a frankenpad T60?

I focused on the 15" T60p in order to get the UXGA display. I've already been thinking I would want the integrated graphics in order to avoid reliability issues. My Fujitsu tablet has Intel integrated graphics and I'm not bothered about it.

bwaldow wrote: by 'modded' do you mean a frankenpad T60?

Yes.

In my case I only had to swap the XGA panel for a UXGA panel. A really simple operation.

Hi,

You've obviously done a ton of excellent research - I'm just getting started on the same quest and wonder if you'd share your opinion regarding what the best possible combination of components would be to put a FrankenPad together, irrespective of cost. It would be great to see a component list of the 'optimum' FrankenPad.

Thanks!

An observation - you won't choose between a 14" & 15" screen because one is "the best" but rather because of your own preferences.

Much of the rest of the choices fall out from an identified need - integrated graphics because it's more reliable (if that's of value to you) or accelerated because that's of greater importance. Driver compatibility might be a reason to choose between the two accelerated graphic chipsets, and for someone that needs one, there's no other option.

But "best"? For who, and for what?

Once I've identified what's important to me, I can narrow down other selections to support that, but I don't think there's an identifiable "best" for everyone. I think that is the wrong way to look at the matter.

Not to discourage, but rather to suggest you (and others) identify your "sure" requirements, as they are special to you. Then the rest falls in from that. This is the essence of design.

I've already chosen 4:3 ratio IPS 15", and a desire to get to a Core2Duo with 8G of RAM, but not because everyone should. From this I'll have a narrower selection of motherboards and CPU chips, and the other bits will be what is needed to support that. I want reliability, so I'll try to identify a motherboard with Intel graphics.

But that's because it's important to me.

There's some merit in finding out what the limitations are and naming those, I'll admit. If anything's outright trouble, I'd like to hear - kind of the opposite of "best".

Cheers,
Bret

If you want a 14" screen, you are limited to XGA and SXGA+, and very important: NO IPS.
Some people have managed to get a 14" UXGA working, but at enormous expense, and the quality of the LCD is only so-so.

15" offers it all, XGA, SXGA+, UXGA, QXGA and several IPS options.
The T60 is limited to 4GB RAM max. of which only a little over 3GB is usable due to chipset limitations.
The T61 supports up to 8GB.
A 64-bit OS is required to use 3.5GB or more RAM.

Thanks for the responses - and you're quite right; 'best' is a relative term and doesn't provide a context. So, bear with me please, and I'll try to provide it.

I do software architecture and occasional development and frequently travel. I've always used T-Series ThinkPads, the last (personal) of which is a T60P with 15" UXGA Flexview. In my view, probably the best screen for development ever made. I didn't realize until reading this forum that there even was such a thing as QXGA - so that interests me greatly. I frequently work with several VM's running simultaneously, so memory is a serious matter - which is why I'm currently using a T410 running W7x64 with 8 GB, and have 'retired' the beloved T60p. The FrankenPad possibility gives me the chance to leave the T410 at home with it's sad display capability.

'Best' to me, then, is the following:

1. Ability to support 8GB (minimum); fastest possible bus speed
2. Screen resolution and size, with perfect dimension being 15" and resolution being greatest possible
3. Maximum possible CPU speed without compromising reliability
4. Maximum GPU speed without compromising reliability

I never use dial-up, and I don't use the machine for music or playing games. I have no need for a PCMCIA slot and don't need or want internal WWAN.

If I assume a Penryn T9500 is the fastest CPU available to me, which compatible MB is 'best' from a reliability and bus speed standpoint? Is the QXGA LCD as sharp and viewable as the inherent UXGA Flexview?

I do appreciate the responses and hope this helps to provide better context.

My first post as a newbie..

I have two T60's that I am currently using.

The FrankenPad looks very promising. My question is >> The Intel X9000 CPU looks like it would work. Anyone have thoughts with this CPU?

Alright, it's time to revive my thread!

My budget is back on track, but I'm still hunting down a T9300/T9500. Without a CPU, I was unable to test my rather pricey T61 motherboard, and because the seller's warranty is long gone, I'm hoping it works okay. I have, however, managed to get a TurboCache card as well as a Bluetooth card.

Pictures will be coming soon!

Hi. Will 14.1" mobo non 4:3 work for this swap or its only 4:3 t61 mobo that fits?