Thinkpads Forum

My T60p feeds video to my TV via DB15.

How can I adapt the DB15 to feed DVR video? RCA? RGB? HDMI? S-Video?

JimL

I don't quite understand, but I assume you want to convert the VGA (DB-15) output signal to something that is compatible with your DVR (Component/Composite/HDMI/Svideo)?

If so, then you need active converting equipment. No simple adapter will do, as your T60p simply does not output any of these signals through the DB-15 port.

JimL wrote:My T60p feeds video to my TV via DB15.

How can I adapt the DB15 to feed DVR video? RCA? RGB? HDMI? S-Video?

JimL

For HDMI, you can use a docking station and a DVI to HMDI adapter plug or cable. The signal is the same (digital), its just a different plug. No HDMI audio with the T60 of course. I purchased my DVI to HMDI cables from Monoprice.com for a very reasonable cost.

As dr_st stated, you can't go through the DB15 without active converting equipment. Its probably cheaper to buy a 2504 docking station. That's what I did.

I've learned a little more about this subject. Yes I'm trying to feed video from my computer to my DVR. Audio is simple enough.

Firstly, my only options at the DVR are composite and S-Video. (The only HDMI on the DVR is output) I think that means no dock->DVI. Which I think means an actual converter is necessary.

I understand S-Video is far superior to composite video. So I am looking for a VGA -> S-Video converter box.

Did I get anything right?

JimL

JimL wrote:I understand S-Video is far superior to composite video. So I am looking for a VGA -> S-Video converter box.

Wouldn't say far better, but should be somewhat better indeed, because the signals are somewhat separated, unlike with composite. So there should be less noise in the resulting picture.

dr_st wrote:Wouldn't say far better, but should be somewhat better indeed, because the signals are somewhat separated, unlike with composite. So there should be less noise in the resulting picture.

Actually I wasn't really concerned about an exact comparison of those two.

Am I right in saying, I am looking for a VGA -> S-Video converter box?

Also an expansion of the question.

There seems to be a lot of DB15 VGA video scan converters to feed TV's. They usually have composite and s-video outputs. I understand that a straight VGA -> s-video cable lacks timing, etc., necessary for feeding TV. Are these s-video scan converters for TV going to have the same timing, etc., that will feed the DVR via s-video?

That is, my DVD player (separate unit) composite output will feed either the TV or the DVR so apparently the DVR and the TV take the same input - and on s-video as well?

What is your ultimate objective? Transferring video files from the computer to DVR? Playing computer files on a TV? Converting video files? What precisely? There are multiple ways of achieving any of these tasks, and converting VGA output to S-Video or composite is one of the least desirable approaches toward such ends. So, once again, what is your ultimate objective?

EOMtp wrote:What is your ultimate objective? Transferring video files from the computer to DVR? Playing computer files on a TV? Converting video files? What precisely? There are multiple ways of achieving any of these tasks, and converting VGA output to S-Video or composite is one of the least desirable approaches toward such ends. So, once again, what is your ultimate objective?

Put streaming videos on DVD. My DVR has a hard drive where I can edit them and move them to DVD.

I've read about software that will "Record Flash Movies Easily" to your computer, but I'd as soon have a hardware solution.

JimL wrote:Put streaming videos on DVD. ... I've read about software that will "Record Flash Movies Easily" to your computer, but I'd as soon have a hardware solution.

Capturing streaming videos straight to your computer is far more of a "hardware" solution than what you propose, i.e., converting the digital stream to analog VGA (DB15), then converting scan rate from VGA to S-Video or Composite, then converting that analog signal back to digital, and then recording that to hard disk on the DVR!

What you are proposing is the logical equivalent of receiving via eMail a page of editable text, scanning it to produce a picture of the printed page, faxing that image somewhere, receiving the image on the other end as a fax, OCRing the received fax image in order to recreate an editable text file, and then storing that file as a word processing document! [Come to think of it, this analogy would yield better results than what you propose because there would be no "signal loss" for a text file, unlike files which contain audio/video.]

The most "hardware" solution applicable to your task is to capture the streaming video immediately as you receive it, at the first "point of entry" into your "world". You can then move the recorded file to any device you like, optionally converting the format, i.e., type of encoding, of the recorded file if the captured format is incompatible with the target storage/playback device.

EOMtp wrote: The most "hardware" solution applicable to your task is to capture the streaming video immediately as you receive it,

Just capture it immediately. That really sounds easy. And I bet it is for some people. For a second there I thought you were going to say how.

I'm only guessing, but I suspect I would have to find and buy a bunch of software and hope I could ever get it configured and working - then start over with different software for a different kind of streaming and again after upgrades. Plugging in a converter is something I could do if I could find out what to get.

Said differently, by hardware solution I meant for me not for a software engineer.

So I'm right where I started. No way to do the job and no clue how.

Google "capture streaming video" and take it from there. Here is one good option:
http://all-streaming-media.com/record-v ... corder.htm

EOMtp wrote:Google "capture streaming video" and take it from there. Here is one good option:
http://all-streaming-media.com/record-v ... corder.htm

Believe me I did my Googling long ago. It isn't laziness. I just can't pull everything together anymore. My present ability to multi-task and my short term memory are minus numbers. I realize I don't write like a dummy, because I haven't lost my vocabulary. I get concepts easily, but since the stroke I have to beg for easy ways to do otherwise detailed things. That's why I came here with the question, because _most_ of the folks here don't jump all over me or assume I'm just lazy when I can't do what I used to do or what you geniuses can still do. And I learned long ago it's almost impossible to convince geniuses that anything could possibly be difficult for someone else. Most people who get everything easily really expect everyone else to get it and it gets to be a very long, difficult out process wringing simple information out of a genius who has decided you are just lazy. I get it all the time. "Nothing to it. Just do it. Just capture it immediately. It's simple." I had to wait for years to feed a computer into a TV, because you don't explain easy things to people and I couldn't afford a plug and go TV until a few months ago. Looks like I'm stuck at "it's easy" again. Both frustrating and angering.

DVR is just another storage device, like a USB HDD. Your T60p plus a USB HDD can work just like a DVR. USB HDD are much larger and cheaper than DVR. The Windows Media Player has all he latest decoders built-in and continuously updated.

I usually put an older Thinkpad on the TV to view photo slide show anyway. Currently it is a T43p on a dock plus a DVI-HDMI cable.

@JimL - No one is assuming laziness. It sounds like the forum members are trying to tell you that the DVR method is more complicated and more difficult than capturing the video on your laptop. I've had my share of problems trying to connect PCs to TVs. My sister has a Hitachi with DVI input that I still can't get to work correctly after two years.

If you convert your VGA out to composite or S-video you will lose quality. However, if you still want to go that route, check out this link for a prior discussion: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 58&start=0

JimL wrote:... Believe me I did my Googling long ago. It isn't laziness. I just can't pull everything together anymore. ...

I would like you to know that until you explained, your situation was in no way apparent to me. Answering questions which are simple -- but not easy! -- requires straddling between presenting the relevant concepts and offering specific solutions which get bogged down in too many details.

Your question is very much one that can be categorized as simple, but not easy. The "simple" answer is: record at the source. The not-so-"easy" part of the answer is how to do that in the general case, since there is NO general case answer at the present.

The "tool" one needs to use to capture streaming video entering one's PC depends on the source of the video and its format, e.g., capturing YouTube video is different than capturing a film streaming in from NetFlix, which is different that capturing video that is started up in a web page "frame" for which the URL is unavailable/hidden. That is the reason I pointed you to a host of options, each with particular strengths as well as notable weaknesses depending on the video being captured.

If you tell me precisely what it is you wish to capture the bulk of the time, and from where, then I will give you exact and unambiguous details of how to accomplish that. Feel free to send me a PM (Private Message) if you prefer to take this "off-line".

Location in your profile is required.

sjthinkpader wrote:DVR is just another storage device, like a USB HDD. Your T60p plus a USB HDD can work just like a DVR. USB HDD are much larger and cheaper than DVR. The Windows Media Player has all he latest decoders built-in and continuously updated.

As I said before, that must be easy for somebody.

EOMtp wrote:I would like you to know that until you explained, your situation was in no way apparent to me.

Quoting myself:

Just capture it immediately. That really sounds easy. And I bet it is for some people. For a second there I thought you were going to say how.

I'm only guessing, but I suspect I would have to find and buy a bunch of software and hope I could ever get it configured and working - then start over with different software for a different kind of streaming and again after upgrades. Plugging in a converter is something I could do if I could find out what to get.

Said differently, by hardware solution I meant for me not for a software engineer.

So I'm right where I started. No way to do the job and no clue how.

Your question is very much one that can be categorized as simple, but not easy. The "simple" answer is: record at the source. The not-so-"easy" part of the answer is how to do that in the general case, since there is NO general case answer at the present.

Believe me, I know.

If you tell me precisely what it is you wish to capture the bulk of the time, and from where, then I will give you exact and unambiguous details of how to accomplish that. Feel free to send me a PM (Private Message) if you prefer to take this "off-line".

I like several crime and Syfy shows that I can't get on TV. They appear on several online viewing sites. Altho there are a number of viewers on my machine, including Windows Media, I'm beginning to think everything I have watched is showing on Shockwave Flash. I have a thing called Download Helper, which I don't think enters into the equation, and a pitiful excuse called QuickTime, that are browser addons.

I would point out again that not only is editing software complicated and expensive, I already have very workable editing in the DVR which I use to remove commercials from TV recordings.

As for the matter of converting this way and that, everything I have watched has been on my Sanyo flat screen TV _through the DB15 port_ per TV manual instructions (in addition to using it as a 30 inch monitor for the laptop). It's WAY ahead of watching it on an 8 inch screen, so I don't understand the concern about using the _same_ port to feed the DVR. That is, just plug in a converter, assuming it is possible, which I have been trying to find out. I haven't heard anyone say it is impossible, only that the engineering isn't ideal. It seems to me that if Sanyo chose to use it and it works great for me, what's the big deal?

I'll return to one question no one answered:

There seems to be a lot of DB15 VGA video scan converters to feed TV's. They usually have composite and s-video outputs. I understand that a straight VGA -> s-video cable lacks timing, etc., necessary for feeding TV. Are these s-video scan converters for TV going to have the same timing, etc., that will feed the DVR via s-video?

Will the TV converters feed a DVR? On seller told me yes and another told me no about the same converter.

sjthinkpader wrote:Location in your profile is required.

Looks to me like it's in there.

JimL wrote:As for the matter of converting this way and that, everything I have watched has been on my Sanyo flat screen TV _through the DB15 port_ per TV manual instructions ... so I don't understand the concern about using the _same_ port to feed the DVR.

If your DVR accepts VGA through a DB15 connector, then you are done! However, I bet your DVR does not accept the same signal that your Sanyo flat screen accepts, and therein lies the rub ... the fact that your DVR accepts only some form of an NTSC signal, not computer VGA.

That is, just plug in a converter, assuming it is possible, which I have been trying to find out.

One needs a VGA to NTSC scan converter. There is more to such a device than meets the eye. If you are interested in the details of the problem and its solutions, then read the following:
http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2t ... iques.html

If you don't care about the details, but you just want a "solution", then know that one can buy "boxes" which do the conversion that cost from $25 to over $1000, and the price is directly correlated to the quality of the output. Below is a device (under $200) which will not disappoint you. Perhaps even a $50 device will suffice.
http://www.ambery.com/uxtotvprscco.html

I'll return to one question no one answered:
There seems to be a lot of DB15 VGA video scan converters to feed TV's. They usually have composite and s-video outputs. I understand that a straight VGA -> s-video cable lacks timing, etc., necessary for feeding TV. Are these s-video scan converters for TV going to have the same timing, etc., that will feed the DVR via s-video?

Will the TV converters feed a DVR? On seller told me yes and another told me no about the same converter.

To keep this simple, let's categorize devices as passive (e.g., a cable) and active (e.g., a scan converter box). Passive devices, i.e., those that don't use power, will not work; active devices will work.

The answer to your last question is, "Yes, the active VGA-to-TV scan converters will feed a DVR." If an active device puts out Composite and/or S-Video, and your DVR accepts one of those, then your DVR will receive the signal it needs to record. Your eyes will tell you if the scan converter is of adequate quality for your needs.

Please let me know if you would like more details on any of the above.

EOMtp wrote:If your DVR accepts VGA through a DB15 connector, then you are done!

Not a chance. As I indicated early on, the DVR's only available inputs in this regard are composite and s-video. I think I read that s-video is digital. But having no HDMI or DVI outputs on the laptop (I think that was what was referred to) I'm left with the DB15 which runs the TV.

If you are interested in the details of the problem and its solutions, then read the following:
http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2t ... iques.html

Oh I don't mind reading about it. (I was working on a double computer programming/engineering degree when the stroke called a halt.) I just can't remember enough of what I read to follow through on. (Before that I retained 80% of what I read.) I can follow step-by-step how-to instructions, but I gave up on asking for anything like that years ago.

one can buy "boxes" which do the conversion that cost from $25 to over $1000, and the price is directly correlated to the quality of the output. Below is a device (under $200) which will not disappoint you. Perhaps even a $50 device will suffice.
http://www.ambery.com/uxtotvprscco.html

I think that's what I was asking about. This is apparently my answer.

The answer to your last question is, "Yes, the active VGA-to-TV scan converters will feed a DVR." If an active device puts out Composite and/or S-Video, and your DVR accepts one of those, then your DVR will receive the signal it needs to record. Your eyes will tell you if the scan converter is of adequate quality for your needs.

Please let me know if you would like more details on any of the above.

Thanks much. I think I can get there from here now. There are quite a few converters around with s-video output. (I wonder if there are enough connections in the DB15 to actually have reached a digital signal from some of these converters... ...)

JimL wrote:... But having no HDMI or DVI outputs on the laptop (I think that was what was referred to) I'm left with the DB15 which runs the TV....

Yes, no connector on the T60p, but a dock likely cost less than the other boxes or software you will need via VGA. In the end, VGA conversion will not give you pixel accurate picture that DVI, HDMI can.

sjthinkpader wrote:... a dock likely cost less than the other boxes or software ...

The perfect solution, far superior in every regard to anything suggested thus far. If your DVR accepts HDMI, then you need a DVI-D to HDMI cable and the Lenovo Advanced Mini-Dock, which has a DVI-D output port ... and you are in PC-to-DVR Heaven!

The Advanced Mini-Dock:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=%28Thi ... m270.l1313
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 61297.html

The cable:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=DVI-D+ ... m270.l1313

EOMtp wrote:The perfect solution, far superior in every regard to anything suggested thus far. If your DVR accepts HDMI, then you need a DVI-D to HDMI cable and the Lenovo Advanced Mini-Dock, which has a DVI-D output port ... and you are in PC-to-DVR Heaven!

The only inputs available on the DVR are composite and s-video. Even component is output only.

sjthinkpader wrote: In the end, VGA conversion will not give you pixel accurate picture that DVI, HDMI can.

Moot when there is no alternative.

In the end the cheaper solution may be to buy a more up-to-date DVR with DVI and/or HDMI input.
Then use the dock and a DVI-DVI or DVI-HDMI cable.

RealBlackStuff wrote:In the end the cheaper solution may be to buy a more up-to-date DVR with DVI and/or HDMI input.
Then use the dock and a DVI-DVI or DVI-HDMI cable.

Your point is well enough taken, but this is the fourth DVR I've had in as many months and I understand it to be made less than a year ago. It seems to be rather difficult to get anything nowadays that works at all, let alone one that has everything you need. I've returned more units than I've used. Perhaps it adds to the difficulty that I need a DVR with a tuner, which this is. Magnavox H2160MW9A with firmware updated. Magnavox, Toshiba, Phillips, everything is made by Funai and Funai makes junk.

Then there's cost. A couple bills for another DVR. Several weeks or months to get it replaced with one that works. A couple more for a super dock (mini docks don't have HDMI OR DVI). Then I have to remember that none of this is essential.

Fine. Here is another "perfect" solution:
Get a T42[/p] for $100 or less -- it has Composite video-out! No docking stations, no changing DVRs, no scan converters ... it is precisely what you want: video via a dumb RCA cable from PC to your present DVR.

Here are some T42[/p] units on eBay:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=%28Len ... m270.l1313

EOMtp wrote:Fine. Here is another "perfect" solution:
Get a T42[/p] for $100 or less -- it has Composite video-out! No docking stations, no changing DVRs, no scan converters ... it is precisely what you want: video via a dumb RCA cable from PC to your present DVR.

Interesting. I already have a T42. What does (/P) mean? Mine has no composite video out. Although it does appear that it has s-video. I read that Lenovo had yanked that from later models. If I could ever get wireless to work for more than 2 days that could be an answer.

Any clues about reliable modems and routers? I can never get a response with that question on the NG's.

You are correct: T42 and T42/p (which has an with ATI video chipset) have S-Video output. You can connect that directly to and S-Video IN connector on the DVR (or you can use an S-Video to RCA/Composite cable, but why bother if you have S-Video IN on the DVR?!)

Regarding "reliable modems and routers" ... it is difficult these days to find a modem or router that is not reliable! Modems are different than routers, although the two could be combined in one "box". The type of modem one needs depends on the connection type: dial-up is different than DSL, which is different than cable ... and we'll assume you don't have ISDN! Routers come in all kinds of "flavors" with respect to features, but even the most basic router is perfectly reliable. If you doubt your router's "goodness", then get a D-Link DI-604 on eBay for under $10 -- they are perfectly reliable and excellent at what they do:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=%28DLi ... m270.l1313

Short answer: Unless you tell me of a specific problem you wish fix, the modem and/or router you have now are likely to be perfectly fine ...