T60 Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo

[Muse]

Most of the machines I'm seeing for sale are Core Duo. Is there any circumstance where that's preferable to Core 2 Duo? For instance, where a T2400 would be preferable to a T5600?

[richk]

No. The Core2Duo will run 64-bit OS. If you are running 32-bit, any difference would be minimal.

[Muse]

No. The Core2Duo will run 64-bit OS. If you are running 32-bit, any difference would be minimal.

Well, my thinking is that the T5600 would give you wiggle room to run 64 bit in the future. Would it be preferable to run Windows 7 64 bit to running Windows 32 bit on a T60? Or would it make little or no real difference?

[ThinkPadophile]

A Core 2 Duo processor will be slightly faster than a Core Duo processor of the same speed, but the difference is probably imperceptible in normal use. The Core 2 Duo also allows you to run 64-bit operating systems. However, because the T60 line can only recognize 3GB of RAM due to hardware limitations, the 64-bit OS gives no additional memory capacity.

The main advantages of a Core Duo are that it runs cooler and quieter than the Core 2 Duo. Check this link.

[Muse]

A Core 2 Duo processor will be slightly faster than a Core Duo processor of the same speed, but the difference is probably imperceptible in normal use. The Core 2 Duo also allows you to run 64-bit operating systems. However, because the T60 line can only recognize 3GB of RAM due to hardware limitations, the 64-bit OS gives no additional memory capacity.

The main advantages of a Core Duo are that it runs cooler and quieter than the Core 2 Duo. Check this link.

Are there advantages in running a 64 bit OS in any case? Or would the advantage just be the support or more RAM (e.g. if using a capable machine, say a T61)?

Thanks for the link to that thread, it's right on topic. It was started approximately a month after I got my T60 with Core 2 Duo T5500 (Nov. 2006). I'm going to read it carefully in hopes that:

1. It will help me quiet my T60.
2. Guide me well in choosing another.

[dr_st]

Are there advantages in running a 64 bit OS in any case? Or would the advantage just be the support or more RAM (e.g. if using a capable machine, say a T61)?

Theoretical benefits in performance that can be achieved by applications taking advantage of the 64bit architecture are moot at this point, since not enough applications have been ported to 64bit. And in any case, such benefits would have to come from an application that extensively uses the CPU (e.g., multimedia encoding/decoding, mathematical/biological modeling, etc.). Just doing office work and browsing you won't see any serious benefits, even if the application is actually 64bit.

For example, word is that 64bit MATLAB can significantly outperform the 32bit version in some cases.

But of course the RAM limitation is disappointing. Since applications that use this much CPU power often require a lot of RAM as well (again MATLAB comes to mind).

I'm going to read it carefully in hopes that:

1. It will help me quiet my T60.
2. Guide me well in choosing another.

I currently possess two T60 machines - both C2D, one 14" with GMA950, one 15" with X1400. The X1400 GPU runs a bit on the hot side (more than the CPU), but if there are any implications on the perceived heat of the machine (i.e., in areas in contact with the user) or the actual fan noise - I have not noticed them. I previously owned a very similar T60 15" with X1400 but with a Core Duo, and again did not notice any heat/noise issues, or any differences between that or the C2D machines. The fact that the fan itself is fairly quiet most of the time (until you get to the maximum speed) also helps.

Based on my experience and the opinions of others I concluded that heat/noise is not really an issue on a T60, until you get to the FireGL-equipped T60p units, esp. in 14" form factor. As long as you are dealing with a normal T60 - Intel GPU vs ATI, or Core Duo vs Core 2 Duo - might show differences on paper, but nothing worth troubling over in real life.

[Muse]

As long as you are dealing with a normal T60 - Intel GPU vs ATI, or Core Duo vs Core 2 Duo - might show differences on paper, but nothing worth troubling over in real life.

Thanks for the information. I was hot on the trail of another T60, thought I knew what I wanted, but now I think I should seriously look into the questions, i.e. what CPU, what graphics, what screen. I think I've decided I want SXGA+ (1400 x 1050), because I'm already used to the high resolution, but the other things I'm unsure about. That thread you linked me to in a post above shows that lots of people thought they had real issues with noise with their T60's. You evidently think that at least for you, those issues are trivial. To be honest, I've never fretted over my T60's noise, but I have to say that paying attention to it I can't say it's a non-issue. My hearing in the high ranges is absolutely substandard, yet I do hear the fan in quiet surroundings, and especially when it speeds up, which it often does even when I'm not doing anything with the machine. I'm thinking that I can quiet down this T60 using a utility and maybe making changes in the BIOS and maybe rolling back my BIOS version, as suggested in the linked thread. Do I want my next machine to be C2D or CD? That's another decision. Thanks again for your comments and reflections.

[dr_st]

TPFanControl does wonders with fan noise. If you set it to "smart", fan will almost never run, but the PC will be hotter. I think at manual speeds of 1 or 2 it should be pretty quiet (i.e. you would hear it in a very quiet environment, but not in a normal one), and at the same time do a more than adequate job at cooling. Give it a try and see.

[Muse]

TPFanControl does wonders with fan noise. If you set it to "smart", fan will almost never run, but the PC will be hotter. I think at manual speeds of 1 or 2 it should be pretty quiet (i.e. you would hear it in a very quiet environment, but not in a normal one), and at the same time do a more than adequate job at cooling. Give it a try and see.

I downloaded the zip and unzipped it to the T60 HD, but reading the readme.txt I got apprehensive. It had many warnings and there was no reassurance that it wouldn't screw up my machine. It indicated support for a dozen or more machines but nothing later than T43, I believe. Are people with T60's having good luck with it? I don't believe I have any other TP utilities installed, as far as that goes. Is TPFanControl what T60 users have been using? Is it necessary or advisable to go into the BIOS and make any adjustments?

[ajkula66]

No...I believe your fears got the better of you which happens to all of us...

Original versions of TPFC were designed for (hot and noisy) T43/p units. Later versions - including the newest one - will run great on T60 and T61, including the "p" varieties.

The reasons for disclaimer(s) are quite simple: if one went wild into re-arranging the setting within the TPFC without knowing what you were doing, the hardware could be damaged.

I have a soft spot for hot-running ThinkPads - check my signature - and A31p and all newer ones run TPFC with no issues whatsoever, and have been doing so for years.

YMMV.

[Muse]

No...I believe your fears got the better of you which happens to all of us...

Original versions of TPFC were designed for (hot and noisy) T43/p units. Later versions - including the newest one - will run great on T60 and T61, including the "p" varieties.

The reasons for disclaimer(s) are quite simple: if one went wild into re-arranging the setting within the TPFC without knowing what you were doing, the hardware could be damaged.

I have a soft spot for hot-running ThinkPads - check my signature - and A31p and all newer ones run TPFC with no issues whatsoever, and have been doing so for years.

YMMV.

I can't interpret your signature in terms of hot running TPs. Thanks for the reassurances, I'll dive in. Again, should I go into my BIOS and adjust anything? TBH, I've never even gone into the BIOS. Don't even know what version I have. I guess I should run Everest on it, maybe it will tell me...

Speaking of hot running TPs, I have a TP coming in 4 days, and I'm hoping it doesn't run hot or loud, I just have no idea:

T61 with T7700 2.4GHz, WSXGA+ 15.4, Intel Graphics. If it runs hot or loud I suppose I might be able to underclock the CPU. Never done that, but I suppose it might be possible. I don't think I need all that processor power.

[ajkula66]

You can go into BIOS, it usually doesn't bite, but there are exceptions...

No need for that though, in reference to TPFC.

As for hot machines in my signature, A31p with an upgraded CPU runs fairly warm, and two T43p units can get really hot especially when doing something graphic-intensive...the tablet is by far the coolest-running one, although I have TPFC on it as well...

[Muse]

Thanks for the info about the BIOS. You probably didn't see my edits on my last post about my machine coming in 4 days. I hope it doesn't run hot or loud.

On another note, I was looking at my SXGA+ screen today on my T60 I've had almost 4 years. The viewing angles on it are truly awful. I'm not sure there's any position you can be in where the whole screen looks OK. However, I don't think about that normally, I just live with it. I hope the WSXGA+ will be better that way.

[ajkula66]

T61 with Intel graphics should not run hot whatsoever, and you likely won't have to underclock or undervolt anything. I've owned a couple of those and they were fine machines apart from the screen quality, but your new WSXGA+ is likely as good as it gets on that generation of ThinkPads.

[Tasurinchi]

T61 with Intel graphics should not run hot

True, I've just restored the T61 shown in my sig and I have to say is a great machine

Yesterday I was running Ubuntu update, browsing and doing vide conference with Skype Beta and the cooler did not run at all (or was running so silent that I didn't notice). WXGA+ is a great resolution, (and I'm used to work with SXGA+ and WSXGA+), and the screen is brighter than my X60. Overall a great machine!

[Muse]

TPFanControl does wonders with fan noise. If you set it to "smart", fan will almost never run, but the PC will be hotter. I think at manual speeds of 1 or 2 it should be pretty quiet (i.e. you would hear it in a very quiet environment, but not in a normal one), and at the same time do a more than adequate job at cooling. Give it a try and see.

Edit: It's working. I guess I just didn't know it. Nothing showed on the screen but there was an icon in the tray.
- - - -
So far I have not been able to run TPFanControl. I downloaded and unzipped what I believe is the latest version and the EXE is in the \Release folder along with WinIo.sys, WinIo.dll, and the fancontrol.ini file. I changed the Active=2 to Active=0 in the fancontrol.ini file as stipulated in the readme.txt file but when I run the EXE I get this message every time, including after a reboot:

----------------------------------------------------------------
Fan Control
----------------------------------------------------------------

X..........Error during initialization of WinIo Driver.
............(winio.sys missing in app folder or failed to load)

........................................[ OK ]

----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm running Windows XP, my T60 has a pretty generic configuration although it's almost 4 years old. I downloaded tpfancontrol_0_21.zip. Can someone suggest to me what's wrong here? Do I need to use an older version?

[Peak2Peak]

The latest version of TPFC seems to be tpfc_v062 with support FAQ's on the site too!

[Muse]

The latest version of TPFC seems to be tpfc_v062 with support FAQ's on the site too!

Neat, I just snagged it. I'm hoping it will be better than 0.21, which doesn't seem to be helping at all.

Edit: My impression is that this is a different animal entirely. The agreement presented before installation says to first uninstall previous installations. However, what I "installed" doesn't appear to have done an "installation," but runs straight from the EXE, no entry in Add/Remove programs, no folder, no shortcuts, nothing. It runs by running the EXE after changing one character in the INI file. Hmm. Are there different developers for this?

[twillis449]

My $0.02 worth:

T60 - only about 3 GB of addressable memory means 64 bit operating system is useless.

T61 - can have up to 8 GB of memory so 64 bit OS is useful if you really do need more than about 3 GB of memory.

If you're a person who used a laptop for basic stuff like e-mail, web surfing and maybe some kind of small spreadsheet stuff on occasion then a T60 is probably more than adequate for your needs.

I do big scientific number crunching problems and I have a T61 8889 with 8 GB of memory and 2 GHz C2D processor with Nvidia graphics (no problems there so far, fingers crossed). This little beast crunches the same numeric problems about 10% faster than does a Dell latitude 830 also with 8 GB of memory but a 2.53 GHz C2D processor! It desn't get that hot either (seems to run a bit hot only when watching a movie), so go figure!