T61 4:3 - hard to find?

[bgalakazam]

A while ago I was able to get a T60p, 2.16GHz 2GB RAMm 14" SXGA for $300. I noticed that the T61/p has the 800MHz FSB and with the 1GB extra RAM. The problem is that there are rarely any 4:3 T61's out there, and not in the $300-$400 range.

What are the chances of me find a T61 with SXGA? If slim, should I just go ahead and upgrade to the T7600 2.33 as that is the highest I could go currently?
I don't want to waste money upgrading ($150 for that CPU) if I can find a T61 with 4:3. If not, I can settle with what I have.

Cheers.

[richk]

I just picked one of the more common type numbers for 4:3 T61 machines (8891) and searched eBay for "T61 8891" in category "laptops and notebooks", including the description in the search and found 2 machines that look like they are what you want. There is something wrong with the description. It says widescreen, but the type and serial are certainly a 4:3 machine with SXGA+ and a Penryn and NVIDIA.

I have no interest in these machines and cannot guarantee what they are, but I doubt they will sell for much over $300.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T61 ... 33622067e1

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T61 ... 4aa5de5b70

[Muse]

I don't know but in another thread I started this week a poster said they're "as rare as hens teeth!"

[richk]

They are not common. I just saw your thread and looked now

[bgalakazam]

Yeah I found a few in the $300 range so I am definitely doing the upgrade. 800MHz FSB and 4GB max sounds right. Just have to sell my T60p and I am set.

[bgalakazam]

My friend just bought a T61 SXGA+ for $330 (2.0ghz, 2gb, nvs 140m, warranty). I didn't have the money at the time so I told him to get it. Now I need to get rid of my T60p so I have some money in case a similar offer comes in the future.

4:3 pop now and then but chance to have it with the 2.0+ cpu and the nvidia and around $300 are very slim.

[dr_st]

You think that's rare? Try finding it with a Penryn CPU, SXGA+ and NO nVidia.

[mikemex]

You think that's rare? Try finding it with a Penryn CPU, SXGA+ and NO nVidia.

Wow, I didn't know mine was that rare. I've got one with a Penryn T8300, SXGA+ screen and integrated intel X3100 graphics. It has all options except for WWAN. I even got the parallel & serial port ultrabay adapter...

I always thought of it as the CNC technician's dream come true, though

[dr_st]

Is it a CTO model?

[mikemex]

Nope, type is 8895-AD9. It came from factory with a XGA panel but I swapped it hehehe... I know it voids the warranty (at least for that part) but it expires in less than 6 months so who cares.

If you want to read the details here they go:

I've also replaced the 3945ABG wireless adapter with a Thinkpad A/B/G one (Atheros). It dropped connections all the time and it seems it's a design issue rather than a bad card because my Dell Precision M90 came with the same card and did the same. I replaced the factory 5400 r.p.m. drive with a 7200 r.p.m. one and added 2GB of RAM for a total of 4GB. I've never allowed myself to be carried by the hype of Vista/7 so I'm still using XP and very happy about it. And I've come to realize that 4GB is simply an overkill, a waste of money. 32 bit XP only detects 3GB and I'm yet to see a situation where 2GB is not enough (although 1GB is certainly not enough). RAM is so cheap nowadays that I'm going to keep it but I would rather spend the money on an SSD.

Before the T61 I had a T60 (with T2500, X1400 and SXGA+) and I used to believe that build quality on the T61 was inferior to the T60. However one day I dissasembled it entirely and tightened every single screw and it came just as good as the old one. While CPU performance is much greater, graphics performance is definitely weaker, but I suppose it is to be expected from an integrated card. On the bright side, I had issues with the ATI drivers in AutoCAD and it seems like the intel driver is far more stable. The T60 used to lock down entirely sometimes which hasn't happened with the T61 yet.

As much as I like my T61, I've started to look at it with different eyes since I got a couple of X series machines (X61 and X200). The X200 in particular has about the same pixel density as the T61 with the SXGA+ screen, but the machine is so much lighter and smaller that I've been wondering if I really need a 14.1" notebook. Perhaps it is that I own more than one machine so I don't have to make compromises like with the 14.1". Yeah, it must be so; if I only had one machine it would definitely be 14.1". But 4:3 and those are dead...

As a final note, the T61 with Penryn CPU and Intel video is absolutely silent (I tried with an SSD for a brief period). It produces so little heat that the fan never turns on under normal conditions. I'm convinced that Penryn is the best Intel has offered in a quite long time (the last that comes to my mind were the "Tualatin" Pentium 3 / First Generation "Banias" Pentium M). Awesome performance without resorting to dumb power increases (like Pentium 4, Core iX).

[RealBlackStuff]

It's not too late to extend the warranty for up to another 2 years!

[mikemex]

Warranty is a big scam. It costs $329 to add two more years of warranty, which seems little compared to what the computer was new, but there are always new models comming out and I would be lucky getting $500 by selling it now. I'm better off fixing the computer myself if it fails, what component could fail to cost me $329? Even the motherboard isn't that expensive if you buy on sites like eBay.

Thing is, this computers last much more than 3 years on average. I had a Thinkpad 600 that lasted 12 years for me until I sold it to a friend and I know it still works fine. My sister's T41p is about 6-7 years old and still works fine, so is my dad's X31. In fact, I've never had a Thinkpad to fail on me if not abused.

Insurance is a business, don't forget. It's meant to produce profit out of you. Read this: http://www.arachnoid.com/lutusp/consumerangst.html

[pianowizard]

Warranty is a big scam.

We had a heated discussion over this topic four years ago: http://67.214.227.38/~thinkpad/forum/vi ... 29&t=34045

[stuartf]

RE: Warranty and scam

When my three years initial warranty was up on my T43 with the Flexview screen I paid $99 from a reseller for another two years. During those two years I have had the the following replaced:

keyboard X2
LCD
LCD top (the latch stopped releasing)
inverter
motherboard (under keyboard memory slots were shot)
backlight

With the exception of some not so good experience in China where it took them two weeks to not fix the LCD problem, I have had the usual four day end to end with EZ serv.

stuartf

[sktn77a]

I must agree that the extended warranty on the T4x and T6x is a VERY good idea. The motherboard components on these models are prone to catastrophic failure. I bought the 5 year (ie 2 year additional) extended Lenovo warranty for my two T61p thinkpads for about $150 each (on the web - don't buy it direct from Lenovo). Well worth the peace of mind for me. When these computers are 5 years old it will be time to upgrade them anyway.

Yes, the 4:3 models were quite rare and can command a premium price on e-bay (for a model that, according to IBM/Lenovo, nobody wanted)! Both of my T61p thinkpads are 4:3 - I didn't think the kids would want to be lugging a 15" screen around at college.

[ThinkRob]

I must agree that the extended warranty on the T4x and T6x is a VERY good idea. The motherboard components on these models are prone to catastrophic failure. I bought the 5 year (ie 2 year additional) extended Lenovo warranty for my two T61p thinkpads for about $150 each (on the web - don't buy it direct from Lenovo). Well worth the peace of mind for me. When these computers are 5 years old it will be time to upgrade them anyway.

While it's true that the T4x series are prone to planar failure, the T6x series are not. Some T60-series with NVIDIA GPUs are basically ticking time bombs (the GPU will fail, it's just a question of when) but the rest of the T60 series have none of the issues that plagued the T4x series.

[i-SnipeZ]

We have one T61 14" in our household (4:3). I wish we had more, but, I guess the 2 15" T61P's with the 570m make up for it. .

If I were to see another 4:3 T61 in the wild I'd pick it up in a heartbeat. 16:10 is okay, but the newer models, of which some use 16:9, is just too wide for me.

[mikemex]

You might think I'm arrogant for saying this but I wonder why people belive that just because they have an opinion then the opnion has merit? I feel like discussing global warming here: it doesn't matter if you belive in it or not, it's a fact of life. Insurance is not a necessity, it's a luxury that it's up to you to pay for, but like with all luxuries, it isn't by far the wisest way to spend your money.

[dr_st]

Your example about global warming is actually a bad one, because it's still widely debated. And no, because you believe it is a fact does not necessarily make it so. Arguments about the merit of opinions and beliefs go both ways.

Regarding insurance/warranty - it's all about cost and effect. You can call it "luxury", if you wish, but I figure that a person who can afford the luxury of owning a laptop can afford the luxury of the warranty. So like you say - it's a matter of deciding where to spend your money.

Nobody claimed anything was a "necessity". They merely said it was a very good idea, and justified it.

I would not go as far as calling it scam. Claiming that it costs $329 to add to years of warranty is also false. The price to go from 3 to 5 is $150-$200 for a basic depot warranty, which in most cases is enough unless you do something mission critical with the machine and have to have NBD onsite response.

Now, the equation is very simple. If during the warranty period you need to replace the LCD or the motherboard - it has already paid for itself. For small things like hard drive, keyboard and plastics - probably not worth it, unless you replace them more than once. Bottom life is you pay for the peace of mind, and also for the luxury of replacing items for small faults which you could otherwise live with.

[mikemex]

Your example about global warming is actually a bad one, because it's still widely debated.

Yeah, and Evolution is still "debated" over there, isn't it?

[pianowizard]

Yeah, and Evolution is still "debated" over there, isn't it?

Well, evolution is different because it's being debated simply due to scientific ignorance, not because there is evidence against it. For buying extended warranties, both sides of the debate actually have valid arguments.

[sysiphus]

Getting pseudo-back on topic, I'd argue that while some models' poor track records strongly encourage the purchase of extra warranties (nVidia T61, T4x with discrete graphics), others (T60 w/o Flexview (short lifespan on backlight) and T60-not-p (cool and fairly reliable) don't merit the same consideration for extra warranty.

Frankly, I couldn't imagine buying a T61 with ATI under any condition--it's not worth it to deal with the time-bomb, regardless of warranty, when so many reliable options are out there. With that said, my perfect Thinkpad (not a frankenputer) would be a 4:3 T61 with Intel graphics and a fast C2D...heck, I'd rather have Intel graphics, period, given the far superior Linux support (as compared to older ATI or Nvidia chips), and lower noise/temperature.

[ThinkRob]

Frankly, I couldn't imagine buying a T61 with ATI under any condition--it's not worth it to deal with the time-bomb, regardless of warranty, when so many reliable options are out there. With that said, my perfect Thinkpad (not a frankenputer) would be a 4:3 T61 with Intel graphics and a fast C2D...heck, I'd rather have Intel graphics, period, given the far superior Linux support (as compared to older ATI or Nvidia chips), and lower noise/temperature.

Uh... did you mean NVIDIA?

And I agree regarding Intel GPUs; my recent T60 rebuild was based on one with a GMA 950 for exactly those reasons.

[sysiphus]

Uh... did you mean NVIDIA?

And I agree regarding Intel GPUs; my recent T60 rebuild was based on one with a GMA 950 for exactly those reasons

Ugh, yes, I did mean Nvidia. 4hrs of sleep is catching up with me...

[ThinkRob]

Ugh, yes, I did mean Nvidia. 4hrs of sleep is catching up with me...

Ah. I understand -- sleep is a poor substitute for caffeine!

[Tasurinchi]

And I agree regarding Intel GPUs

My both T6s have Intel Graphics and I'm really happy with them. Specially with my T61, since it has a webcam, can be patched with a SATA-II Bios and works great! Cool and fast! Almost the perfect thing

[bill bolton]

Insurance is not a necessity, it's a luxury that it's up to you to pay for, but like with all luxuries, it isn't by far the wisest way to spend your money.

Only if you are time rich, and can afford to value your own time at very low, or even at zero, cost.

If you are not time rich, the view is completely different.

Cheers,

Bill

[ajkula66]

mikemex wrote:

Insurance is a business, don't forget. It's meant to produce profit out of you.

Global warming scare is also a very profitable business for some, but hit somewhat of a decline over the past year or so... ...after certain email exchanges were leaked...oh well...

if it fails, what component could fail to cost me $329? Even the motherboard isn't that expensive if you buy on sites like eBay.

Maybe for a somewhat common ThinkPad model...I've been on the hunt for a very particular planar belonging to a fairly recent machine (Z61m), eBay had none to offer and online places that had it stocked wanted $650...now, had the previous owner purchased an extended warranty I wouldn't be having this problem now, would I ?

In fact, I've never had a Thinkpad to fail on me if not abused.

You belong to a blessed minority...that's all I can say.

[mikemex]

I hope I didn't offend anyone, that's not my intention. Of the responses I've got probably Bill's makes the most sense. I understand the logic of valuing your own time, but I don't agree with it.

Since it's difficult to get my point with words I'll try to put it pseudo matemathically:

Case 1: Computer breaks after initial 3 year period but with extended warranty for another two years. I don't know where did you quoted it but on Lenovo's site it says $329. $329 spent.

Case 2: You purchase the extended warranty but the machine doesn't break in 5 years. $329 spent.

Case 3: Computer breaks after initial 3 year period without extended warranty. 3 Years down the road a $1,000 machine is probably worth no more than $400-500. You can probably sell the old one, even if it doesn't work, for about $250 on eBay, more if you're willing to part it out. Put $250 more and you'll be able to get another used. $250 spent.

Case 4: Computer never breaks and you didn't spend money on extended warranty. $0 spent.

So insuring always costs you $329, but not insuring it costs either $250 or nothing.

But thing here is that you don't even need a new and expensive machine in the first place. It's only to satisfy your ego, not any real necessity. Like the article I referenced "if it's truly a necessity, how did we survived for that long without it?". Thomas Huxley often complained about the average man of science, who knows a lot about technical stuff, but knows nothing else. People learns a lot about computers, but they usually don't understand their own motivations and desires. And that's what keeps the entire society to the knees of the rich and powerful. Like I said, there is only one truth and the best way to keep people from it is to make them believe that all opnions matter.

You're better off doing like me: letting other people burn their money and wait until new models fall in price so you can upgrade for little and sometimes even no money. That will turn your cost of ownership close to zero. If you really value your time, then always have a spare machine ready. Beats spending money on thin air.

[twillis449]

I suspect that most modern computers are vast overkill in terms of capability for people who just do stuff like e-mail, surf the web, watch a movie, do internet banking etc. You don't need to spend $ 1000 + on a new Thinkpad for that sort of thing. There are plenty of refurbished / off lease etc T60s or T61s which are more than adequate for the above activities and can be purchased for +/- $ 300 or so.