Help With My "Hot" T60!!

[Gene]

Hi, I hope someone here can help me with my new (to me!!) laptop.

I just bought a nice T60, 2613-CTO with a T7200 CPU and ATI X1300 GPU. This machine was to replace my beloved T42 which for the last couple of years has served me very well for work and grad school. Well I’ve been trying to use the T60 to write a paper and I’m beginning to hate this machine. It runs VERY hot!!!

When I received the machine I removed the fan assembly, cleaned out all the dust and did the usual clean the CPU, GPU, and Northbridge and applying Arctic Silver to the CPU. The thermal pads on the GPU and Northbridge were just fine so they were just cleaned with alcohol. As part of a clean install of XP I installed NHC to deal with any heat and fan noise issues. I’ve run NHC on the T42 and it works wonders on getting the fan noise under control. Using NHC in basic as installed settings the CPU and GPU ran reasonable cool but the fan never shut off. I eventually changed the ACPI settings to Low = 65C, Mid = 67C, High = 75C, and Max =85C with the durations (bottom 4 settings) at Low off 60C, Mid-High 65, High- Mid 65, and Max-High 75. With these setting even at just running MS Word the CPU is at 64 and the GPU 75!!! I’ve spent all day writing a paper and a little research work on the net and the palm rests are getting pretty warm.

I spent most of yesterday and this morning searching this board (BTW Thinkpads.com was down this morning!!) and the web looking for a solution to this problem, so I now know this is a major problem with these machines. Yesterday I followed the generally recommended solution of disabling NHC and installing ThinkPad Fan Control, but while it controlled the CPU temp, the GPU temps went wild! At one point I rebooted the machine and it hung at dull looking XP Welcome Screen. I figured the GPU was too hot, so I let it cool down for a bit and it rebooted as normal. If anybody here could lend some advice that would make living with this machine a lot pleasanter I would greatly appreciate it. At this point I’m seriously thinking maybe I made a mistake picking up this machine and should have stayed with my old trusty T42!!

Thanks

Gene

[EOMtp]

What you describe sounds like the typical "inadequate" cooling situation. It sounds like you took the proper steps to resolve the issue, in which case all should be fine. A working fan with Arctic Silver and proper pads is plenty fine for the T60. The fact that you still have issues indicates a problem in the reinstall of the fan assembly.

Let me state it this way: If you were to install a new fan/heat sink assembly, with new pads and new thermal paste, then the machine would not overheat. Remove the fan assembly, make sure the fan works and that the heat pipes are not damaged, and "plump up" the thermal pads before reinstalling. Use a very very thin layer of Arctic Silver on the CPU, and make certain the screws are tight. When done correctly, with good parts and materials, the T60 does not overheat.

[Note: I am assuming that you have the correct heat sink assembly for your machine, i.e., "long" vs. "short". If not -- perhaps because someone earlier replaced the original part with an incorrect one -- then get and install the correct part.]

Good luck!

[Mike Blake]

I don't have a T60, but wanted to point out the warning I see on this board all the time, that if you spin the fan too much by hand while cleaning, you can damage it.

But perhaps someone who has actually done this can speak more to the point than I can.

[RealBlackStuff]

To elaborate on Mike Blake's post, if you clean the fan with compressed air or a vacuum cleaner, and at the same time do NOT stop the fan from spinning (by using e.g. a toothpick), you will wreck the fan bearings.
The fan will still work afterward, but only at limited capacity, and will die soon.
If you did any of the above, you should replace the fan.

You should also read this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=35070

[Gene]

Thanks for the quick replies!!

Yes I'm well aware of the "free spinning" problem with the fan impeller. When I removed the fan assembly I separated the fan from the heat sink so I could clean out the dust from the shroud and blow out the fins without damaging the fan. I know the fan is working because I can hear it running even now as I'm typing this note. NHC is telling me right now the temps are: CPU 51, GPU 63 with the fan running at level 1, 2986rpm. I've tried to offset the GPU by 5 degs thinking that it might help deal with any spikes in temp that would keep the fan running till it got below the lower threshild of 55 deg.

Last night I did a little playing with the NHC fan settings to: off to Low: on at 60 till it drops to 55, Low to Middle: at 65 till 60, Middle to High at 75 till 60, and High to Max at 85 till 75. I also remove the palm rest and keyboard to have a "feel" around the motherboard and noticed the frame is getting warm. The mag in the card housing on the left side is getting very warm and I can feel the warmth through the palm rest.

[OCedT60]

If you open cpuid does that t60p have the ich7 or ich8 chipset?

I just run my fan at 7 all the time using tpfan control, even at that level everything else is usually to loud to hear it anyways.

To elaborate on Mike Blake's post, if you clean the fan with compressed air or a vacuum cleaner, and at the same time do NOT stop the fan from spinning (by using e.g. a toothpick), you will wreck the fan bearings.
The fan will still work afterward, but only at limited capacity, and will die soon.
If you did any of the above, you should replace the fan.

You should also read this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=35070

[Binh]

I advice to do these two steps to identify where is the problem:
- Use your hand to check if the air going from heat sink is hot. If it isn't while CPU temperature is high then the problem is the cooling system (mostly due to bad contacts).
- If the air is hot, then the problem is BIOS or software. Check you CPU / GPU usage.
Note that the thermal sensor of GPU in T60/p shows 15-20 deg. C higher than actual.

[beeblebrox]

To elaborate on Mike Blake's post, if you clean the fan with compressed air or a vacuum cleaner, and at the same time do NOT stop the fan from spinning (by using e.g. a toothpick), you will wreck the fan bearings.
The fan will still work afterward, but only at limited capacity, and will die soon.
If you did any of the above, you should replace the fan.

You should also read this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=35070

What a nonsense!
There are no bearings in the fan!
I have opened about 20 fans now across all thinkpad/HP series. They are all the same.
The fan is held in place by the permanent magnets and only the tip rotates on the metal, lubricated by an oil film. There are no bearings.

However, every motor (i.e. fan) is in reverse a generator. So if you use compressed air and the fan spins very fast it generates a reverse current and the result could damage the control electronics.
My advise is always take out the fan entirely, clean it with a Q-tip and water and blow the fan by mouth. Compressed air has way too much pressure and overspins the fan.
Just my 2 cts.

[RealBlackStuff]

@beeblebrox:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/27790 ... enovo.html
The above fan has ball bearings!
Everywhere you read up on fan problems, they are called bearings.
Even the magnetic version is still a bearing.
So before using big words like nonsense, think twice please! (and keep the change...)

[Gene]

Hi again everybody,

Today I've done a few things to the machine and I'm observing the temps to see if I've had any success. For some reason nobody, not even the local computer repair store her in Blacksburg stocks the thermal pads for heat sinks!! But I saw one of the posts on this forum describing they can be replaced with 14mm X 14mm X 1.5mm thick copper sheets with Arctic Silver on either side. While I was in my local hardware store I spotted some sheets of copper for sale at a fairly reasonable price so I bought one. Since I also build and fly RC airplanes it was nothing to take my razor saw and cut a couple of 14mm squares and polish both sides to insure their as flat as possible. I then pulled out the fan assembly (again!!!) cleaned all the chips with alcohol and applied the Arctic Silver. Then laid the copper on top of the GPU and North Bridge, applied Arctic Silver to the top of the copper and reinstalled the fan assembly.

So far the CPU and GPU temps seem to have stabilized a bit. As I'm writing this the CPU is at 53C and the GPU is at 60C with the fan off. I think I'm am seeing that when the temps do jump and the fan starts running, they seem to be dropping down a bit quicker. One question (fear!!) I do have is I could only get 0.635mm (.025") thick copper sheet. Is that too thin to work? I eyeballed the thickness next to the squished portion of the thermal pads that were on the chips and there didn't much difference in comparison.

Has anybody else done this modification and/or lend any comments or more advice on my temp problem?

Thanks

Gene

[Gene]

Well I think I've had just about enough of this machine!!

I'm trying to finish up a term paper that's due Monday at 12pm and a fellow student recommended I install Mendeley to help get my bibliography done easier. After installing the software and getting it running the temps and the fan on this machine just went nuts!!!! Add to that I think the GPU must have been getting very hot because the display froze and I had to reboot.

As a grad student I'm joined at the hip to my laptop and I'm sitting next to a fellow student who's Dell laptop that is about the same vintage as this T60 is not only running Mendeley just fine, but also doing is very quietly!!!

I haven't gotten any reply on my previous post, so if anybody here has any idea's I'd love to hear from you.

Gene