Use T60 as a data server? Is this wise?

[Muse]

I have an extra T60 (Core 2 Duo T5500 1.67GHz, 2GB DDR2, Intel GMA950 graphics). I have another T60 and I have a T61. I only need two laptops at the moment. I also have a couple of midtower PC's, one of which I use as an HTPC/media machine. I have no server, and I'm desperately in need of one. I'm wondering if I can use my spare T60 as a data server, at least in the interim until I can decide on and move forward on a "real" server machine.

I want my server to be low power and reliable. I have had some interest in WHS, but I saw some posts saying that WHS does not support laptops. Well, no big deal I figure. The T60 has a Windows XP CoA, and currently it has XP on it and I have recovery disks, so I can give it a fresh install.

Is it 1/2 way reasonable to use my T60 as a data server? I can hook it up by ethernet (won't this give greater reliability?) to my wireless router, a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 wireless router. I want my other two laptops and my midtowers to be able to access the data on the server machine (the midtowers are next to the router, and they are connected to it by ethernet), which will include my email client data and some database files (Visual FoxPro), and a whole lot of MP3s, that I'd like to be able to stream to the other machines.

The T60 in question at the moment has a 60GB 5400RPM drive in it but I have a Samsung Spinpoint MP4 HM640JJ 640GB 7200 RPM 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive that I can put in it. I just ordered a 2nd HD caddy for T6x's, that I figure I can put a 2nd HD in, or use for ghosting, data transfer or whatever, should I decide not to use the T60 as a server.

The reason I don't want to use my 2nd midtower as a server are several:

1. I don't even have XP for it.
2. It's MB doesn't support SATA directly. It has IDE. I suppose I could get an SATA controller card for it, however.
3. I figure the midtower wouldn't be nearly as energy efficient as the T60 or a dedicated low power server machine, maybe with Atom CPU.
4. The midtower wouldn't be nearly as quiet as the T60 or low power server machine.

What do you think?

[ArtShapiro]

I've never felt that laptops were designed to be on 24x7. I suppose others might disagree.

Why do you assert WHS won't work on laptops? I'm not aware of that restriction; it is not qualified for use on virtualized machines - I got official confirmation of that from M$ last week - but if there is a restriction such as you suggest it's not apparent to me.

Art

[RealBlackStuff]

Bad idea to have a laptop on 24/7.
Throw a Linux server OS on one of your midtowers, problem sorted. http://www.ubuntu.com/server

[Muse]

I've never felt that laptops were designed to be on 24x7. I suppose others might disagree.

Why do you assert WHS won't work on laptops? I'm not aware of that restriction; it is not qualified for use on virtualized machines - I got official confirmation of that from M$ last week - but if there is a restriction such as you suggest it's not apparent to me.

Art

I got it from this thread. Admittedly it's from 2007, but all the threads I saw yesterday concerning this and related subjects seemed to be from 2007 (and prior):

http://social.microsoft.com/forums/en-U ... 7623f3b48/

Also here, where it says Using a laptop for a Windows Home Server is not supported. Please use a desktop or server capable machine for installing the Windows Home Server software:

http://social.microsoft.com/forums/en-U ... 71d41494a/

and

http://social.microsoft.com/forums/en-U ... a3045183b/

[Muse]

Bad idea to have a laptop on 24/7.
Throw a Linux server OS on one of your midtowers, problem sorted. http://www.ubuntu.com/server

Yup, it's conventional wisdom. One guy said he's used his for many years, "knock on wood." Another guy suggested trying to keep the HD(s) cool, i.e. leave the lid up. I figure if I try it for a while I will have the lid at least partially up and have a small fan set up to blow air over the right portion of the T60 to cool the HD. Short term I like my chances, long term not so much.

Thanks for the suggestion using Ubuntu and my basically unused midtower. Like I say, it would require my getting an SATA controller card (I assume they're available). I will check the power with my Kill-a-Watt today. I wish I hadn't recycled my old 4MB Matrox Millenium video card. Assuming it would work in there, it would reduce the power consumption of that box considerably over what's in there. I guess I could find a weak one on ebay cheap. That box would require very little graphics performance!

[frankiepankie]

Sell the T60 and buy some hardware so you can build a low power server.

I have a AMD Athlon X2 240 running undervolted and such, and with a 160GB 2.5", 2TB 3.5" and a picoPSU (Wide Input model so i can use a 19V Toshiba laptop brick) it consumes only 35W idle, and about 55W full load

[Muse]

Sell the T60 and buy some hardware so you can build a low power server.

I have a AMD Athlon X2 240 running undervolted and such, and with a 160GB 2.5", 2TB 3.5" and a picoPSU (Wide Input model so i can use a 19V Toshiba laptop brick) it consumes only 35W idle, and about 55W full load

Why do you use a 2.5" drive, I presume for your OS? Isn't that less reliable than a 3.5" drive?

[Muse]

I just tested this T60 and with the display off it's drawing around 18-20w idle, with its original Toshiba 60GB 5400RPM drive in it. With the display turned off and Firefox closed it's about 14-15w.

I'm thinking I can maybe configure this to go into suspend when there's been no activity for a while, say 15 minutes. The ethernet built in has these options on the power options tab:

[ checked by default ] Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power.

[ unchecked by default ] Allow this device to bring the computer out of standby.

Perhaps I need to uncheck the first and check the second in order to have the machine automatically suspend when inactive for N minutes and waken when a data request comes to it from the network. I often go for many hours, even a day or more without accessing my machines, so I think this would save wear and tear on the machine and also save on electricity.

[lead_org]

i leave several laptop 24/7 for couple of months at a time, they don't seem to have any problem. But to use your laptop as a high throughput data server is not a good idea with the 2.5 inch hdd, as they are not designed for such operations.

It is probably better to get a cheap NAS enclosure or use a desktop machine or a second hand server.

[Muse]

i leave several laptop 24/7 for couple of months at a time, they don't seem to have any problem. But to use your laptop as a high throughput data server is not a good idea with the 2.5 inch hdd, as they are not designed for such operations.

It is probably better to get a cheap NAS enclosure or use a desktop machine or a second hand server.

Why is a 2.5" HD not suitable for data serving duties? Even if it's 7200RPM? I don't know much about HD architecture, maybe you're right, but I'd like more information. I don't know that my application would be "high throughput" as you call it. It might be pretty modest by server standards. At most one machine will be asking for data at any point in time, no more than would be required natively on the laptop were I computing on it.

[lead_org]

because the 2.5 inch hdd used in laptops are not enterprise class hdd, where it is designed or tested to run 24/7, there is higher incidence of failure if you use these drives in these 24/7 conditions. You obviously can get those 2.5 inch hdd that can support 24/7 use, but they tend to be pretty expensive and smaller in capacity.

You can also reduce hdd failure by reducing harddrive spin down time from say 1 hr to around 30 minutes, etc, this will minimise hdd wear when you are not accessing data from it.

[virge]

I have a headless T60 that I use as a file server-- it's been on and running 24/7 for about a year. At work, I have an older Toshiba laptop (P3) running as a print server. It's been going 24/7 for about 2 years. My father in law has a T60 running 24/7 for the past year and an X31 doing the same thing for the past 2 years (with exception of about 4 weeks a year when it's traveling). Before that, he was running a T20 for a couple years.. 24/7. No problems, just make sure to clean out the dust once in a while because they do get quite dirty. I expect the fan bearings will wear out eventually, but fans are cheap. YMMV.

[Muse]

No problems, just make sure to clean out the dust once in a while because they do get quite dirty. I expect the fan bearings will wear out eventually, but fans are cheap. YMMV.

How do you clean out the dust? Do you just blow air into the vents or do you remove the keyboard and actually remove the fan? I did the latter on the machine a couple months ago but it seemed to me I accomplished nothing in terms of cleaning the dust out of the fan assembly that had not been accomplished by blowing compressed gas into the vents. However, the 4 years old machine somehow didn't seem to have had much dust in it to begin with. I suppose there are threads here on cleaning T60s.

Speaking of threads, and to your mention of fan bearings wearing out, there's a thread on lubricating the fan that I was reading with great interest yesterday. The focus was on eliminating noise from fans, but it seems to me that such lubrication might go a long way towards extending the life of the fans. Here's the fan lubrication thread:

T60 T61 fan lubrication - illustrated guide by msb0b inside

[virge]

I usually shoot some air through the vent, but it's worth it to take the keyboard and bezel off for a good cleaning once in a while. There are lots of places for dust to get trapped in there. Thanks for the fan lubrication link. Neato. Never done that before, but seems like a good idea. So far, all my fan failures have been in machines that are NOT running 24/7... go figure.

[lstratos]

Yes it works, I have ran t60/t61 / dell xps m1330 as windows 2003/2008/esx server.

First thing goes is battery (if left on) or the fan. Currently I have 2 t60s that have stuck fan. Its more trouble to replace the fans and getting a good part off ebay.

Works but not worth the trouble when it breaks. Desktop fans are so much cheaper and easier to replace.

I actually have the laptop sitting on top of ac vents at work so they run around 69F 24/7. Now they're just sitting in a draw

[Muse]

I usually shoot some air through the vent, but it's worth it to take the keyboard and bezel off for a good cleaning once in a while. There are lots of places for dust to get trapped in there. Thanks for the fan lubrication link. Neato. Never done that before, but seems like a good idea. So far, all my fan failures have been in machines that are NOT running 24/7... go figure.

Hmm. I wonder if it has something to do with the running and stopping. Do you have the 24/7 machines configured to spindown the HDs or suspend? I was thinking I'd suspend after ~20-30 minutes of inactivity, and/or spindown the HD (or if 2 HDs are in there, both HDs) after ~20-30 minutes of inactivity.

Yes it works, I have ran t60/t61 / dell xps m1330 as windows 2003/2008/esx server.

First thing goes is battery (if left on) or the fan. Currently I have 2 t60s that have stuck fan. Its more trouble to replace the fans and getting a good part off ebay.

Works but not worth the trouble when it breaks. Desktop fans are so much cheaper and easier to replace.

I actually have the laptop sitting on top of ac vents at work so they run around 69F 24/7. Now they're just sitting in a draw

From the sounds of it, the fan is something to pay close attention to. Perhaps its life can be way extended if proper maintenance is employed.

There's no chance I will leave the battery in the machine. At the moment, both my batteries are charged between 40-50%, and in a cool place. I'm using them to shuttle the machines around the house between adapters while I'm figuring things out, configuring them, doing myriad things in settling on and setting up my network in the house, but when I'm done doing that they will go in the refrigerator (again between 40-50% charged) in order to prolong the batteries' lives.

I plan to apply Arctic Silver 5 to the CPU's (and other thermal dispersal plates) of all 3 of my Thinkpads as part of the process of setting up the network. I have good reason to believe that the machine I've chosen as the server has insufficient cooling, and no reason to believe that the other two are optimized in this respect. Doing that optimization (if effective) can only help with fan/HD longevity.

[Muse]

Works but not worth the trouble when it breaks. Desktop fans are so much cheaper and easier to replace.

My thinking is that if I do get reasonably satisfactory results using a T60 as a home data server, I shouldn't just sit on my laurels but should continue my quest to buy or build a low powered dedicated server. The options are many, and maybe I should do it now, but I have the extra machine and it's easier right now to use the Thinkpad. It's very attractive: very low power draw (I measured about 14 watts idle with the screen off), very quiet. I'm going to try to keep in mind the vulnerabilities: the higher probability of HD failure, the consequence of fan failure. I had an Acer laptop that was 14 months old (and thus just out of warranty) go up in smoke in September (I didn't see smoke, but I could sure smell the burning electronics!), so I am skittish! That machine was treated quite well, never left the kitchen table, was usually in suspend, essentially the same treatment my proposed Thinkpad server will be getting. Well, it was a cheap Acer (never again!).

[frankiepankie]

Why do you use a 2.5" drive, I presume for your OS? Isn't that less reliable than a 3.5" drive?

Yes, that 2.5" drive runs my OS (Windows 7 Home Premium). I have chosen for an 2.5" because this disk is always running, and it is well known that 2.5" disks consume less power than their 3.5" equivalents

And about reliability, it only contains my OS, and i make regular backups, so if it crashes, no worries

[virge]

Hmm. I wonder if it has something to do with the running and stopping. Do you have the 24/7 machines configured to spindown the HDs or suspend? I was thinking I'd suspend after ~20-30 minutes of inactivity, and/or spindown the HD (or if 2 HDs are in there, both HDs) after ~20-30 minutes of inactivity.

My 24/7 machines are actually running the whole time-- they never sleep. I do have the HDD set to spin down and the LCD is off of course. Battery removed, but UPS attached. My data is actually stored on an external 3.5" USB HDD. The external drive is set to never spin down. I subscribe to the theory that for long life, HDDs should not spin down. The other reason is that I get drive access errors whenever I spin down (known problem with Seagate Freeagent).