T61 nVidia thinkpads being repaired N/C [until March 2011]

[uberT]

(I am the original owner of this T61 and have never had a problem with it. Machine sees lots of use)

T61
build date = Oct 2007
model = 7663 2EU
NVidia NVS 140M
BIOS version 60.86.3e.00.00

[kb3edk]

Hello fellow T61 owners,

Been watching this thread for a long time and knew that the nVidia defect was going to burn me sooner or later...

I have a June '08 T61p which puts me in the "danger zone" of having the defective Quadro 570M. I did my best to thrash it into failure with lots of heavy gaming and scientific simulations over the last three years... watched my warranty expire and then (nervously) watched Lenovo's extended maintenance period expire earlier this spring, and everything continued to work perfectly.

Finally just a few days ago it finally bit the dust. One long, two short beeps. We know what this means, no need to rehash.

Rather than part the machine out or sell it on eBay I think I'll be replacing the mobo with the ATI equivalent, I've seen a few of these floating around online for $200ish (which is what I would have paid for a warranty extension anyway). They have the Radeon 3650 which seems to be on par with the Quadro 570M. While I'm tooling around quite nicely now on my new W520 I quite admire the overall sturdiness of my T61p along with its swanky IBM stickers... so I'm not ready to say goodbye to this box just yet.

Anyone else here done an nVidia to ATI retrofit? All the pictures I see look like it's exactly the same board right down to the millimeter aside from the GPU.

[eecon]

Rather than part the machine out or sell it on eBay I think I'll be replacing the mobo with the ATI equivalent, I've seen a few of these floating around online for $200ish (which is what I would have paid for a warranty extension anyway). They have the Radeon 3650 which seems to be on par with the Quadro 570M. While I'm tooling around quite nicely now on my new W520 I quite admire the overall sturdiness of my T61p along with its swanky IBM stickers... so I'm not ready to say goodbye to this box just yet.

Anyone else here done an nVidia to ATI retrofit? All the pictures I see look like it's exactly the same board right down to the millimeter aside from the GPU.

I can swap hard drives back and forth between a W500 and my T61 or T61p units after first setting the display driver to VGA (then do a System Update to download the applicable ATI or Nvidia drivers), so you are probably looking for a W500 or a T500 mainboard for the swap is my guess.

After the swap you may need the Lenovo Hardware Maintanence Diskette to reset the machine type and S/N on line 20 of the EEPROM to get System Update to work (i.e. You'll need to ID it as a W500 or a T500 like XXXX-CTO plus keep your original ThinkPad S/N). Just go thru an older Tabook.pdf from 2008 or 2009 to find a Type that's close to what your new mainboard has to fill in the XXXX's.

A W500 or T500 mainboard swap into a T61 or T61p should work "in theory," since operationally they apparently look the same to my WinXP Pro Operating system, thus allowing the ability to swap HDDs.

Keep us posted and good luck.

[crashnburn]

I am wondering if I can do this kind of swap between T61 and X61T.. using the VGA driver disable trick? Arent they similar generation chipset etc?

Can this be done on XP only or Windows 7 as well?

[eecon]

I am wondering if I can do this kind of swap between T61 and X61T.. using the VGA driver disable trick? Arent they similar generation chipset etc?

Can this be done on XP only or Windows 7 as well?

My understanding is Windows 7 may be pickier about things than WinXP .... but heck, make a cloned HDD to use as a test swapper and see what happens .... always, always, always experiment using a spare cloned HDD for these kinds of things (just common sense).

[king2048]

Hi,

Does anybody know what the FRUs are for the replacement (non-defective) motherboards, or how they can be determined?

I have a T61 purchased in 2007; it has a failed NVS140M (i.e., G86 chip) with a 2007 date code. Acording to parts lookup (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... sLookup.vm) the FRU for the mainboard is 41W1489. What would the FRU for its non-defective replacement be?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Amigaman]

Hello fellow T61 owners,

Rather than part the machine out or sell it on eBay I think I'll be replacing the mobo with the ATI equivalent, I've seen a few of these floating around online for $200ish (which is what I would have paid for a warranty extension anyway). They have the Radeon 3650 which seems to be on par with the Quadro 570M. While I'm tooling around quite nicely now on my new W520 I quite admire the overall sturdiness of my T61p along with its swanky IBM stickers... so I'm not ready to say goodbye to this box just yet.

Anyone else here done an nVidia to ATI retrofit? All the pictures I see look like it's exactly the same board right down to the millimeter aside from the GPU.

I never heard of, or even realised that it was possible to put a T500 board into a T61p, I'll be interested to hear your result.

Regarding drive swapping, I've done it many times, I even put my dead T61p's Win7 hard drive into my mother's P4 system and it booted fine.

Usually you encounter a blue screen on boot up if the IDE/SATA chipset is very different between the boards, but this won't be an issue since all these Thinkpads use Intel chipsets.

Good luck!

[eecon]

Hi,

Does anybody know what the FRUs are for the replacement (non-defective) motherboards, or how they can be determined?

I have a T61 purchased in 2007; it has a failed NVS140M (i.e., G86 chip) with a 2007 date code. Acording to parts lookup (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... sLookup.vm) the FRU for the mainboard is 41W1489. What would the FRU for its non-defective replacement be?

Any help would be appreciated.

It does not work that way ..... the same boards and numbers were mixed with both good and bad Nvidia chips. You have to remove the keyboard and fan/heatsink, then read the date-code on the Nvidia chip itself (it will look like 0830A2 for the 30th week of 2008 as an example). Once you've done that post what you find and we'll see if it's a good one. Any Nvidia chip before the 28th or 29th week of 2008 is probably vulnerable.

Please read back a few pages through this thread to find most all your answers faster.

[kb3edk]

Thanks everyone for your very thoughtful responses! eecon, yours was especially useful as I have confirmed that what is being sold online as a T61p ATI motherboard is, in fact, pulled from a T500.

I'm going to start a separate thread in this forum under "Retrofit 15.4" T61p with T500 motherboard" and give this thread back to the folks who are still troubleshooting new instances of this defect.

Regards,

-Adam

[king2048]

It does not work that way ..... the same boards and numbers were mixed with both good and bad Nvidia chips. You have to remove the keyboard and fan/heatsink, then read the date-code on the Nvidia chip itself (it will look like 0830A2 for the 30th week of 2008 as an example). Once you've done that post what you find and we'll see if it's a good one. Any Nvidia chip before the 28th or 29th week of 2008 is probably vulnerable.

Please read back a few pages through this thread to find most all your answers faster.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I already dismantled the laptop and checked the date code before posting. The full info:

Code: Select all

nvidia (R)
25N3CD 0725A2  <---- "0725" means it was produced in the 25th week of 2007.
A   TAIWAN
NB7101.00W
G86-740-A2 <-------- I need a G86-741-A2

The reason I'm asking about FRUs is that I want to be able to tell Lenovo exactly what part I need as a replacement, and I worry that if I give them the FRU for the old mainboard they'll ship me another one with an old (faulty) chip. I understand that older FRUs have a mix of bad and good chips, but I had also gotten the impression that, for a sufficiently new FRU, you'd be guaranteed a new chip. I'd gotten this idea from earlier posts in this thread, where people gave FRUs for both original and replacement mainboards, and these numbers differed.

So what FRU should one request to get the same mainboard but guarantee receiving a chip without the solder defect?

[eecon]

Thanks everyone for your very thoughtful responses! eecon, yours was especially useful as I have confirmed that what is being sold online as a T61p ATI motherboard is, in fact, pulled from a T500.

I'm going to start a separate thread in this forum under "Retrofit 15.4" T61p with T500 motherboard" and give this thread back to the folks who are still troubleshooting new instances of this defect.

Regards,

-Adam

I'll definately be interested in your new thread.

FWIW, you may wish to consider tweaking the title to "T500/W500 motherboard" as the two are nearly identical except for the ATI drivers used by the ATI GPU.

[eecon]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I already dismantled the laptop and checked the date code before posting. The full info:

Code: Select all

nvidia (R)
25N3CD 0725A2  <---- "0725" means it was produced in the 25th week of 2007.
A   TAIWAN
NB7101.00W
G86-740-A2 <-------- I need a G86-741-A2

The reason I'm asking about FRUs is that I want to be able to tell Lenovo exactly what part I need as a replacement, and I worry that if I give them the FRU for the old mainboard they'll ship me another one with an old (faulty) chip. I understand that older FRUs have a mix of bad and good chips, but I had also gotten the impression that, for a sufficiently new FRU, you'd be guaranteed a new chip. I'd gotten this idea from earlier posts in this thread, where people gave FRUs for both original and replacement mainboards, and these numbers differed.

So what FRU should one request to get the same mainboard but guarantee receiving a chip without the solder defect?

Here you go (from my 15.4" T61 currently up on Ebay .... Note that the 14" T61 units may use different numbered mainboards):

My pre-repair T61 with a 0723A2 G86-740-A2 Nivida chip had an original factory mainboard FRU 42W7652.

My post-repair T61 has a 1030A2 G86-741-A2 Nvidia chip that came on a replacement mainboard FRU 43Y9047.

Hope that helps.

[king2048]

Here you go (from my 15.4" T61 currently up on Ebay .... Note that the 14" T61 units may use different numbered mainboards):

Thanks! I actually have a 14.1" widescreen (and now, hopefully, I've finally managed to cover all the important details).

I've tried calling Lenovo support, and they don't seem to know themselves...

[eecon]

Thanks! I actually have a 14.1" widescreen (and now, hopefully, I've finally managed to cover all the important details).

I've tried calling Lenovo support, and they don't seem to know themselves...

Try to get whomever sells you a replacment mainboard to understand about the date code on the Nvidia chip that comes pre-mounted on all boards ...... with a return guarranty if they send you a board with a pre-August 2008 Nvidia chip!

[Amigaman]

Hi eecon,

Yes please .... let us know the codes you find on the Nivida chip. For the T61p series I believe the old chip would have G84-950-A2 and the newer ones after mid-July 2008 would be G84-951-A2, however the date code is the most important. Note that the numbers on the T61 vs the T61p chips will be different.

Here's something interesting. My newly repaired T61p has a G84-950-A2, but it has a 2011 date code. I didn't even think they made these chips anymore!



Regards,

Ross..

[king2048]

Try to get whomever sells you a replacment mainboard to understand about the date code on the Nvidia chip that comes pre-mounted on all boards ...... with a return guarranty if they send you a board with a pre-August 2008 Nvidia chip!

Since Lenovo isn't publicly releasing any more information, I guess that's the best I can do!

Cheers.

[eecon]

Hi eecon,

Here's something interesting. My newly repaired T61p has a G84-950-A2, but it has a 2011 date code. I didn't even think they made these chips anymore!

Regards,

Ross..

Nice photo Ross .... thanks very much. Very informative info.

I was not sure if Nvidia actually changed the middle number in the G84-950-A2 stamping on the newer T61p FX570M chips like they did for it's little brother. The T61 NVS140M's G86-740-A2 went to G86-741-A2 on all the "fixed" Post-July 2008 NVS140M chips I've seen.

I'm tempted now to open up my two T61p units with "fixed" chips to confirm (and convert them to Artic Silver thermal paste while I'm at it).

In any event, I'd be real happy with your 2011 date code on the Nvidia chip .... nice going and congratulations.

[Amigaman]

I'm tempted now to open up my two T61p units with "fixed" chips to confirm (and convert them to Artic Silver thermal paste while I'm at it).

In any event, I'd be real happy with your 2011 date code on the Nvidia chip .... nice going and congratulations.

Thanks . I was quite surprised to receive this part, I guess I should consider myself lucky after stories have emerged of people finding pre-Jul 08 GPUs in their "repaired" T61s.

I highly recommend that you place Arctic silver on these GPUs (and then you have a great reason to check the date code ), especially if they were repaired at a depot.

When I received my T61p back from the depot, I opened it up to identify the date code, and I found that the technician who repaired it hadn't even renewed the heat sink paste.

He'd simply swapped the motherboard over, and put my old fan/heatsink back on again. The result was that the GPU had a few patches of dried out gunk on it, and nothing more.

Considering the sensitivity of these devices to overheating, it's disappointing that my machine came back to me in a state that was all set for possible failure again.

Thanks for encouraging me to check the date code, as I wouldn't have opened it up otherwise (and made that discovery)!

At this point I'd also like to acknowledge the assistance of Lenovo ANZ who were kind enough to repair my faulty-nVidia machine, even though the 31st Mar deadline had passed.

Regards,

Ross..

[eecon]

Thanks again Ross for sharing your story ..... I watched the Onsite tech replace my T61 mainboard at my home and watched him put plenty of regular new thermal paste on the chips (a bit too much if you ask me), but I'd rather have a bit of fresh paste oozing out from the sides after the heat sinks are set than reusing old dried out grease.

Your story about what you found from the repair depot is all too common regarding "contractor-run" repair depots.

As for my two T61p units ..... The late-August 2008 build should have a "good" chip from the factory and it's never been opened so that will give me a good look at how it's done on Day 1. The late-July 2008 unit had a fresh mainboard and chip installed by Onsite warranty earlier this year but I was not there to watch the tech like a hawk ...... looks like I better open them all up, have a look, snap some photos, and then replace all the factory thermal paste with Artic Silver.

[Bánh mì]

I want to chime in here. Is having revision "A2" critical? I'm a bit confused in that I have a T61 purchased in late 2007 (third or fourth quarter and would need to check to get exact date). Using GPU-Z (but not disasembling the keyboard and heatsink which I wont do) it indicates my NVS 140M is a revision A2. But the release date panel indicates May 9, 2007. Not sure of GPU-Z refers to this as the original release date of the GPU of the actual chip in my T61. It does indicate revision A2 which seems inconsistent with previous comments about A2 being paired with motherboards in late 2008.

Lenovo is funky. I recall using an old version of some software and saw that they had put a 2006 production date LCD in my 2007 T61. But works fine and no issues for all these years.

[Bánh mì]

Deleted.

[eecon]

I want to chime in here. Is having revision "A2" critical? I'm a bit confused in that I have a T61 purchased in late 2007 (third or fourth quarter and would need to check to get exact date). Using GPU-Z (but not disasembling the keyboard and heatsink which I wont do) it indicates my NVS 140M is a revision A2. But the release date panel indicates May 9, 2007. Not sure of GPU-Z refers to this as the original release date of the GPU of the actual chip in my T61. It does indicate revision A2 which seems inconsistent with previous comments about A2 being paired with motherboards in late 2008.

Lenovo is funky. I recall using an old version of some software and saw that they had put a 2006 production date LCD in my 2007 T61. But works fine and no issues for all these years.

You can not go by CPU-Z or the A2 designation because the old chip and new chips both say A2 under CPU-Z.

You must check it the old fashioned way .... remove the heat sink and look for the exact numbers and letters printed on the Nvidia GPU. For the T61, the old ones will have a date code of June 2008 or earlier (ie. 0826A2 .... 26th week of 2008) and say G86-740-A2. The new ones will have a date code of August 2008 or later (0831A2 ..... 31th week of 2008) and say G86-741-A2. Transitional period chips from July 2008 (0827A2 thru 0830A2 can be determined to be good or bad from the 740 or 741 number stamping.

T61p units use different numbers like G84-950-A2 and I'm not sure if that is the old or new number, but the date code guidelines are the same. If anyone out there has had their T61p recently repaired in the U.S. and has the time to pull the heat sink to confirm the new numbers for a T61p GPU, please chime in here. I have both a late August 2008 built T61p from the factory and a July 2008 built T61p that has had a new mainboard and GPU replaced recently under warranty, but have not yet had the time to tear things apart to check the new numbers.

[Bánh mì]

Focusing on the T61 (non p), what would you do if you have a warranty expiring later this year yet there have been no issues with the GPU? I did have a fan replacement done just a few weeks ago and everything is fine. What are my options. Its clear to me those who paid (emphasized) for an extended warranty are being penalized versus those who did not as the latter group got a fix before the 3/31 cutoff but my group will not at least at the present moment.

Do you have knowledge of any software solutions to pull the information your point out from the GPU? I'm not keen on disassembling my T61 especially when it was built in 2007.

IMO, Lenovo should provide more transpercancy on the problems. When Toyota or other auto manufacturers do a recall they dont place time limits and dont penalize people who did pay for a warranty. Seems to me and as pointed out by someone else Lenovo's action is to place a limit on their liability when the fact of the matter is they sold a product which had a defect in design. When shipped it was defective due to the soldering.The proper remedy from a brand image and goodwill perspective is to just do a large scale recall and fix all units. If this were more of a consumer brand and not a niche brand it would come back to bite them in the behind hard resputationwise. It still can given a little publicity. Would make a great HBS case study on how not to run a business/manage a brand etc.

[eecon]

Do you have knowledge of any software solutions to pull the information your point out from the GPU? I'm not keen on disassembling my T61 especially when it was built in 2007.

IMO, Lenovo should provide more transpercancy on the problems. When Toyota or other auto manufacturers do a recall they dont place time limits and dont penalize people who did pay for a warranty. Seems to me and as pointed out by someone else Lenovo's action is to place a limit on their liability when the fact of the matter is they sold a product which had a defect in design. When shipped it was defective due to the soldering.The proper remedy from a brand image and goodwill perspective is to just do a large scale recall and fix all units. If this were more of a consumer brand and not a niche brand it would come back to bite them in the behind hard resputationwise. It still can given a little publicity. Would make a great HBS case study on how not to run a business/manage a brand etc.

There is no way that I know of to check that info via only software.

Please post your complaint at Lenovo's Forum and send the first poster at the following thread (Mark Lenovo) a Private Message:

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T61-and-pri ... 857#M57630

[Verysad]

Is this repair worldwide ?

[eecon]

Is this repair worldwide ?

The defective Nvidia chip was world-wide.

However, many people outside of the US and Canada and Western Europe have posted messages that their countries' customer service were not very helpful.

Your mileage may wary.

[Verysad]

I am from bulgaria so am i ripped off ? Today i repla ed my motherboard but it was because my bios was flashed bad , any idea when the problem exactly shows up?
I mean after how many hours life of laptop or its random ? Is it possible that old laptops liks mine from 2007 not to have this problem ? My customer support here wont repair my laptop i am sure they are bad.

[eecon]

I am from bulgaria so am i ripped off ? Today i repla ed my motherboard but it was because my bios was flashed bad , any idea when the problem exactly shows up?
I mean after how many hours life of laptop or its random ? Is it possible that old laptops liks mine from 2007 not to have this problem ? My customer support here wont repair my laptop i am sure they are bad.

The issue is totally random based on laptop usage and internal dust build-up causing higher temps.

The vast majority of the older Nvidia chips have not failed so far.

Read into that what you wish ..... keep your units clean internally and don't use any laptop on dusty carpets, beds, floors, etc.

[Verysad]

How about your units is it all repaired?

[eecon]

How about your units is it all repaired?

My T61 built in mid-2007 failed in April ..... I upgraded to 4-years Onsite Warranty when I bought new in 2007, so it was fixed the next day at my home and I sold it last night on eBay to a Canadian buyer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0675972390

My two identical T61p units are running just fine .... they both have the newer Nvidia GPU chip.