T61 nVidia thinkpads being repaired N/C [until March 2011]

[ghenning]

Did Lenovo repair your T61 with a newer planar that had a more recent good nVidia GPU dated late 2008 or after, when nVidia and Lenovo supposedly began to fix the bad GPU problem? I recently had 4 old planars with old 2007 GPUs replaced in my overheating T61p, so I was wondering if they gave you a newer mainboard and GPU.

My T61p nVidia FX570M GPU also failed early 2011 with the CPU and GPU exceeding 100C, which I purchased Apr 2008 and used on docking station without issues for 2.5 yrs; however, Lenovo Repair in Memphis replaced 3 planars (under my extended warranty, later via "excalated sr. techs") starting this April and a 4th mainboard by an on-site repairman in May with old refurbished mainboards all having older faulty GPUs dated 2007. I sent it back a 5th time to a Customer Relations rep., and asked them to replace the planar with a newer version that has a nVidia GPU manufactured after mid-2008. I have yet to hear back from Lenovo.

I made the same requests of Lenovo Warranty Repair Center the previous 4 times, but they ignored the GPU overheating issues. The last sr. level-2 tech and engineer sent my T61p back the 3rd time in a shambles: would not boot due to wrong BIOS settings, outdated old 2006 BIOS, reimaged drive with old outdated drivers, smeared gobs of thermal grease all around chips, did not replace all screws for internal cards (ethernet, etc.), stripped screw sockets, created new power setting to drastically slow down laptop and use less power - then reported it passed all tests! However, when I ran it in the usual performance mode (not OC'd) with Lenovo's Diagnostic and Stress Tests, it always overheated: CPUs > 90-100C and GPUs >100C - which Jeff (sr. Lenovo Tech support) said was "normal" plus he lied about other facts and refused to honor laptop warranty or return calls.

I bought my T61p for science software performance, based on past good reviews of Thinkpads, along with extended warranty; but the warranty service stinks. I would never buy another Lenovo product, after the abysmal incompetent and indifferent service I received for my $3 grand paid for this laptop + extras. I've had enough lies, deceitful repairs, failed call-backs, etc. from this bad company.

Note from Admin: Do not put employees' full names in messages.

[Amigaman]

I bought my T61p for science software performance, based on past good reviews of Thinkpads, along with extended warranty; but the warranty service stinks. I would never buy another Lenovo product, after the abysmal incompetent and indifferent service I received for my $3 grand paid for this laptop + extras. I've had enough lies, deceitful repairs, failed call-backs, etc. from this bad company.

I think it is a bit harsh to blame Lenovo for your poor service experience. The reason is that they often contract repairs out to third parties, and unfortunately these third parties may not always be maintaining the highest standards. If you are able to get through to a Lenovo customer service rep who can escalate your issue appropriately, perhaps something can be done. When Lenovo bought the IBM PC division, they pretty much inherited it the way IBM had left it and IBM usually contracts out repairs for Think products.

I had a similar poor experience when I initially wished to have my nVidia-failed T61p repaired (IBM service Australia, who are contracted by Lenovo told me that they would not repair it). However I was able to get in touch with an appropriate person at Lenovo who authorised the repair (and then IBM was happy to repair it).

Although my machine was repaired, the depot service was actually quite ordinary. My machine came back with two deep scratches on the lid, and the "technician" failed to renew the heatsink grease on the GPU when he performed the motherboard swap. The repairs are conducted by a third party (Bytecraft), so I blame this third party, and partly IBM who engaged the third party. (Lenovo in-turn engaged IBM). It's not really Lenovo's fault that a third party (Bytecraft) who was engaged by IBM employs shoddy technicians. To make matters worse, when I complained to IBM about the scratches, they followed it up, and they told me that the machine was recorded as having 'scratches' on it when it arrived, which was a flat out lie, on the part of Bytecraft.

So my point is, I am sorry to hear about your very poor experience, but I think perhaps you shouldn't give up on Thinkpads if you are able to work something out.

Regards,

Ross..

[eecon]

The morale of the story, regarding this thread, is to always upgrade to Onsite warranty if possible.

We are in a New World Economy of cutting corners at every part of customer service and warranties from ALL mfgs. And if you ever see an Onsite tech trying to stiff you with an older board, you should stop the job right there and elevate the issue to a CS Superviser (assuming you can even find one). Never let the Onsite tech finish the job with old or sub-standard parts .... otherwise you'll never get anyone's attention .... they'll just try to stiff you again figuring that you are an easy mark.

Furthermore, the level of service from Contract Repair Depot centers (world-wide) has always been hit-or-miss and getting worse as the years go by. I would never trust a contractor in a far-off city to give a darn about my machine.

When I have a service tech come to my home, I first chat a few minutes about exactly what they are going to do and have them show me the replacement parts. I photograph the parts and then watch them work, even if I don't understand anything about the parts or the work. They don't know that, so they will do a better job thinking you do know something about computers .... it is just a psychological excerise to keep them on their toes. As a result, the quality of Onsite warranty repairs for all my different products has always been excellent ..... 100% of the time. I always take the extra steps to ensure the proper parts are installed by doing my homework ahead of time at forums like this ...... I still say that consumers today and tomorrow have some responsibility to stay informed as best they can .... and if they can't, at least fake it in front of the Onsite tech by asking a lot of questions like "are you sure this is the correct or latest version part?" Also take lots of photos while they work .... it is your home they are visiting and if they don't like the photos ask them to send another tech (I had to do that once .... turns out the tech that did not like the photos was a wanted criminal and was later fired by the contract service provider).

It's unfortunate that things have come to this ..... Populist chants like "Power to the People" and "Consumer Rights" are no more than smoke and mirrors these days (like our politicians). Those slogans have simply become myths today, and continue to be propagated by slick marketing campaigns.

The corporate bottom-line trumps good warranty service today, especially with a tidal wave of new consumers emerging from developing nations like India and China. A satisfied individual repeat "retail" customer is no longer the highest priority for many mfgs in the consumer product industries. There is much more first-time consumer demand for electronic devices/gadgets (for many years to come) from new customers in India and Asia. Who needs the "individual" retail repeat customer anymore? This is how many corporate managers privately think today ....... my brother is one of them .... and he is a jerk in every sense of the term, only thinking in the "short-term" about his annual bonuses. That kind of thinking got him to the very top of the heap .... much to the detriment of we the individual retail consumers.

I remember the U.S. auto industry while growing up on the west coast of the USA during the fifties and sixties. Demand for US cars by American consumers was so great, and with no foreign competition, that they only offered one or two year warranties. As competition from foreign mfgs increased during the 70's, 80's and 90's, the length of the the warranties, build quality and customer service all improved. It will take something similar to happen to the electronic "gadgets" industry before we see better customer service, etc.

Right now, computer mfgs (and others) are focused on volume retail selling to emerging economies and high volume corporate sales. Individual retail one-person sales are the lowest priority. Corporate strategic planners estimate that they only have to sell a unit once (without repeat customers) because of that human tidal wave of consumers coming out of India and Asia .... thus, they can probably do just fine WITHOUT repeat customers for at least the next 20-25 years (well past the age of comfortable retirement for today's current generation of short-term-thinkers in management). It is all about short-term bottom-line thinking, just like the Wall Street and London investement bankers that caused so much of the world's recent economic havoc and turmoil.

Enough said ..... Let's move on and start saving our own pennies to help protect ourselves by upgrading to Onsite warranties whenever possible in the future. Since repeat retail customers will no longer matter in the future, no one else except you yourself will give a darn about your product issues because a great human tidal wave of retail "first-time-one-time" consumers is coming like a tsunami and headed straight for the corporate short-term thinkers ..... the same short-term thinkers who are only thinking about their next annual bonus.

[Verysad]

I want to tell that in my country bulgaria no one respect and care about warranties also they are small firms from mizerable people who dont anything which they can repair u stuff wrong and make u more problems i never use warranty for this reason recently i changed my motherboard friend changed for me i just bought it from ebay and i am happy its old from 2007 but if i expect warranty to help me i will wait forever is this home warranty i mean is this lenovo technician that come home is worldwide or usa only?
I will probably get t410 in near future if i sell my t61 soon but i am afraid of this warranty problems.... I also have mac book pro he alo have warranty problems due to my country warranty problems .

[eecon]

I want to tell that in my country bulgaria no one respect and care about warranties also they are small firms from mizerable people who dont anything which they can repair u stuff wrong and make u more problems i never use warranty for this reason recently i changed my motherboard friend changed for me i just bought it from ebay and i am happy its old from 2007 but if i expect warranty to help me i will wait forever is this home warranty i mean is this lenovo technician that come home is worldwide or usa only?
I will probably get t410 in near future if i sell my t61 soon but i am afraid of this warranty problems.... I also have mac book pro he alo have warranty problems due to my country warranty problems .

I do not know if Onsite warranty is available in every country, however it is definately available for the EU, US, Canada and Australia.

[lead_org]

Don't worry Ross, Bytecraft is going bye bye soon, i have had even worse experiences with them than you.

They were so poor (or that they were so environmentally friendly) that they have to use these as substitutes (guess where they are from) for normal sticky tape (third picture gives you the final clue).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48896534@N ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48896534@N ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48896534@N ... hotostream

[zchen]

So I took a chance and bought 2 T61s off ebay recently.

1st one is a 14.1 ws(7662-CTO with T8300 cpu) with mfg date of 08/04, when I open the unit I found the chip with 1038A2 G86-741-A2 to my relief.

Also found 2 screws with striped heads on the keyboard bezel, along with super shoddy thermal paste application on both cpu and gpu (stuff all over the side of the unit rather than on them) . I replaced that paste with Turniq TX-2 that's been sitting in my fridge since late 2008 (when I build my current desktop) and got about 8 degree Celsius reduction.

2nd one is a 15.4 ws (6459 CTO with T9300 cpu) with 08/08 build date. Which I also opened (making an existing crack on the palm rest even worse), the chip had a 0828A2 date. The thermal paste applied is better on this unit, and again I replaced the paste with TX-2 and got about the same amount of reduction as the unit above. Time to go buy a new palm rest.

[eecon]

So I took a chance and bought 2 T61s off ebay recently.

1st one is a 14.1 ws(7662-CTO with T8300 cpu) with mfg date of 08/04, when I open the unit I found the chip with 1038A2 G86-741-A2 to my relief.

Also found 2 screws with striped heads on the keyboard bezel, along with super shoddy thermal paste application on both cpu and gpu (stuff all over the side of the unit rather than on them) . I replaced that paste with Turniq TX-2 that's been sitting in my fridge since late 2008 (when I build my current desktop) and got about 8 degree Celsius reduction.

2nd one is a 15.4 ws (6459 CTO with T9300 cpu) with 08/08 build date. Which I also opened (making an existing crack on the palm rest even worse), the chip had a 0828A2 date. The thermal paste applied is better on this unit, and again I replaced the paste with TX-2 and got about the same amount of reduction as the unit above. Time to go buy a new palm rest.

Were they T61 or T61p units?

The 15.4" probably had the original factory thermal paste and thus the cleaner looking application. With a mid-July 2008 chip the odds are 50/50 that is okay.

[zchen]

Were they T61 or T61p units?

The 15.4" probably had the original factory thermal paste and thus the cleaner looking application. With a mid-July 2008 chip the odds are 50/50 that is okay ...... What was the second set of numbers on the 15.4" GPU (G86-741-A2???)

Both are T61, 15.4 did have the 741-A2 designation

[eecon]

Both are T61, 15.4 did have the 741-A2 designation

zchen ..... BTW, welcome to the Forum!

Looks like your 15.4" also has a good GPU!

What was (or is) it's warranty expiration day in August (from Lenovo's online warranty check page)? .... I'd like to compare it with my 08/08 T61p that has an August 23rd expiration date (usually matches the actual day it was built or left the factory).

I still have over a year of Onsite warranty on it and have not gotten around to opening it up (I bought it new in late August 2008).

And thanks for sharing the info about your two new units

[Toine]

Maybe a bit late, but this forum is awesome! Got my hands on a T61p with 1900 res screen and had an broken mobo. Called lenovo and reported this site and the lenovo forums, and yes they picked it up to get it back two days later with an new mobo.

I do remember it ended end of march I believe.

[eecon]

Maybe a bit late, but this forum is awesome! Got my hands on a T61p with 1900 res screen and had an broken mobo. Called lenovo and reported this site and the lenovo forums, and yes they picked it up to get it back two days later with an new mobo.

I do remember it ended end of march I believe.

You are very lucky .... good work

[zchen]

zchen ..... BTW, welcome to the Forum!

Looks like your 15.4" also has a good GPU!

What was (or is) it's warranty expiration day in August (from Lenovo's online warranty check page)? .... I'd like to compare it with my 08/08 T61p that has an August 23rd expiration date (usually matches the actual day it was built or left the factory).

I still have over a year of Onsite warranty on it and have not gotten around to opening it up (I bought it new in late August 2008).

And thanks for sharing the info about your two new units

Thanks for the welcome
The 2 year warranty expired 8-19-10. The bad news is this morning I was sleepy and typed the wrong response, the 15.4's gpu actually has 740-A2 designation as opposed to the 741-A2 of the 14.1 gpu with 2010 date. So it is still vulnerable .

[eecon]

Thanks for the welcome
The 2 year warranty expired 8-19-10. The bad news is this morning I was sleepy and typed the wrong response, the 15.4's gpu actually has 740-A2 designation as opposed to the 741-A2 of the 14.1 gpu with 2010 date. So it is still vulnerable .

One out of two still ain't bad, plus by using the better thermal paste and keeping the fan clean internally you should be okay on that potentially vulnerable mid-July chip in the 15.4" T61

[crashnburn]

I have a 4:3 14" T61 with NVS 140m. How do I find out which chip I have and whether its vulnerable or not?

[omgreo]

.

[eecon]

Everyone with issues, please first spend some time scrolling back through this thread (and the following thread) to find your next step:

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T61-and-pri ... 355#M57714

One last time ..... Here is a brief repeat of what has been posted many, many times before:

The only way to know if your T61 or T61p is vulnerable is to:

1. Have a unit with a date code on the bottom label just to the right of the S/N that is August 2008 or later (08/08, 08/09, etc .... YR/Mo).

2. Otherwise, if it has a build date of June 2008 or earlier (08/06, 08/05, etc ...... YR/Mo), and you know for sure it has never been serviced, then you most likely have the vulnerable Nvidia video chip in both the T61 and T61p.

3. If it has the transitional period July 2008 date code (08/07), or you know it has had the mainboard (motherboard) replaced, you then have to open it up and remove the fan/heatsink assembly and read the date code on the Nvidia chip ...... if the Nvidia chip has a late-July 2008 date code (or later) printed on it (0829A2, 0830A2, 0831A2, etc .... Year-Week-A2), then it is most probably okay. NOTE: Both Nvidia versions A1 and A2 are vulnerable and there is no known reliable software method to verify your date code on the Nvidia chip other than to open things up ..... I repeat ..... There is no known reliable software method to verify your date code on the Nvidia chip other than to open things up.


MODERATORS ...... Please consider closing this thread .... thanks

[BillMorrow]

thanks eecon..
but i think i'll leave this thread open for a while..

FWIW, a few months ago i sent two T61p's in that were built in the time peroid when the bad GPU was being used..
they returned both of them saying that the "free fix" had expired..

one just quit with no explanation, the other works fine..

both are the WUXGA versions..

they did NOT say these had been fixed before or anything other than i was too late..

c'est laVie..

anyone want to buy a T61p UXGA for parts.. display known good.. ?

[eecon]

Okay, thanks Bill ..... BTW, all my T6X units are/were 1680x1050 screens ... otherwise, I'd consider your WUXGA unit just to keep a spare LCD on hand.

My one unit that did fail (a July 2007 T61) had the mainboard replaced with a 2010 dated Nvidia G86-741-A2 GPU this April via Onsite warranty and it got snapped up quickly with Buy-it-Now on eBay to a Canadian all the away across NA near Niagara Falls, Ontario ..... while it still has a few months of transferrable warranty and TPP left on it.

I think my eBay auction photos of the warranty repair in progress and the new GPU really helped move it fast at a premium price.

[Amigaman]

Don't worry Ross, Bytecraft is going bye bye soon, i have had even worse experiences with them than you.

They were so poor (or that they were so environmentally friendly) that they have to use these as substitutes (guess where they are from) for normal sticky tape (third picture gives you the final clue).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48896534@N ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48896534@N ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48896534@N ... hotostream

Whoa, that's so bad it's not funny

I'm glad that they'll stop being used soon, they're giving "Thinkpad service" a bad name..

[lead_org]

it is customary for me to check all the repairs they do, because they are really incompetent. When i saw the sticky tape they used i was like ha? you must be kidding me right?

The IBM support person said that he has never ever heard of anyone using these as substitutes for sticky tape, and i couldn't believe it either. I guess you have to see it to believe it.

[fotojack]

[/quote]Like I said, I think your unit will be okay but just in case, keep a can of air duster handy to blow into the fan intake while running once a week and twice a year remove the keyboard to blow off dust from the CPU and GPU heat sink (use the Forum's search function for instructions on how to remove the keyboard ... it's easy).[/quote]

I've tried using the Search function on how to remove the keyboard.....can't find anything at all! Where exactly is this article on how to remove the keyboard? Thanks for your invaluable help.

Also, I checked my build date, and it says 08/03. So does this mean it's one of the "bad" ones? I just bought this thing, and I'm glad I found this forum! Thanks for your patience with my questions.

[zchen]

I've tried using the Search function on how to remove the keyboard.....can't find anything at all! Where exactly is this article on how to remove the keyboard? Thanks for your invaluable help.

Also, I checked my build date, and it says 08/03. So does this mean it's one of the "bad" ones? I just bought this thing, and I'm glad I found this forum! Thanks for your patience with my questions.

http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/default.page?
and get the hardware maintenance manual

and
http://www.lenovoservicetraining.com/io ... index.html
for video how to

[eecon]

@fotojack ..... Yes, unless your mainboard has been serviced, you do have a vulnerable Nvidia graphics chip. Keep the fan clean, use some Arctic Silver 5 on the the heatsinks, and don't use the laptop on dusty carpets or bedspreads. You'll probably be fine if you do all those things.

[fotojack]

wow, that's fantastic! zchen and eecon......thank you both so much. This makes my life a whole lot easier. I took it apart, cleaned everything up, blew out all the dust (there wasn't much there) and put everything back together again. It still works great. I just use it to keep my photos in after I do a shoot, so it's not like I'm gaming with it or anything strenuous.
For what I paid for it ($100), I'll be happy if it lasts me more than a couple of years. Thank you both again. Gotta love this forum, eh!

[ryanhe]

Hmmm, I just got mine in April and found that mine was built in june 2008 just before the nvidia fix. After 2 hours on the phone with lenovo, they said there was nothing wrong with my laptop and that there was nothing they could do. And now its starting to shut down intermittently. And on top of all this, the warranty expired on june 15.

[Amigaman]

Hmmm, I just got mine in April and found that mine was built in june 2008 just before the nvidia fix. After 2 hours on the phone with lenovo, they said there was nothing wrong with my laptop and that there was nothing they could do. And now its starting to shut down intermittently. And on top of all this, the warranty expired on june 15.

If you bought your machine second hand, then in terms of 'consumer protection' rules, you will probably have to first deal with the entity that sold you the machine before going to Lenovo (if you have no expressed warranty from Lenovo anymore).

If they sold you the machine "as is" with no implied warranty, and this is allowed in your jurisdiction (it isn't in mine, but it is in some US states), then you can't really expect anything from the entity that sold it to you, or from Lenovo once your expressed warranty is expired.

Note that items that are bought in an auction, e.g Ebay, usually have no implied warranty (even in my jurisdiction) and if they are faulty there is no onus on anyone to provide you with a remedy.

Ross..

[eecon]

Just another reason and example for buyers to do their homework before buying anything.

It's a new world these days ..... "trust but verify" to quote the late U.S. President Ronald Regan.

[Amigaman]

Just another reason and example for buyers to do their homework before buying anything.

It's a new world these days ..... "trust but verify" to quote the late U.S. President Ronald Regan.

It's probably been the case since the dawn of time, that one needs to always take care when making a purchase

These days we do have consumer protection laws in many places, and they can be very good, but there is only so much they can do.

When one buys a second hand item, especially from an auction, irregardless of what the item is, things can go wrong. That is part of the risk of buying in this way.

Cars are a great example of where this can happen. It's not the responsibility of the manufacturer (excluding adherence to safety recalls etc) once an item has passed through multiple hands or is auctioned 'as-is', to fix things for you.

[BCHurricane89]

Awww crap, please don't tell me im too late. I have just recently been getting extremely hot temperatures from both GPU and CPU cores sometimes 85C+

Did some research, came across this whole shenanigans. My T61p has a make date of 08/05, so its right in that category for the defective models. Is it still worth it to call Lenovo Tech Support? My warranty JUST ran out 5/21/2011 arggg!!