T61 nVidia thinkpads being repaired N/C [until March 2011]

[eecon]

@mixz1 ..... please see my suggestions over at the Lenovo Forum.

[crashnburn]

Would my above described scenario happen if the nVidia faulty GPU issue from T61 happened?
i.e. Internal LCD not working but External via VGA/DVI works?

Detail Description here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=99300

HELP: T61 LCD Blank w Backlight: Ext LCD works VGA/Dual DVI

What do I do?

I first thought it was the nVidia card NVS 140M going kaput on me. But it seems to be working.

Even at boot the internal LCD remains blank (but with some back lighting), while the Lenovo/Thinkvantage / BIOS stuff shows up on External Display.

Is this just some kind of loose connection between the Laptop & Display ?

Can any of the nVidia faulty GPU failure experienced people share if in their case the external output worked? Or was it complete failure in their case?

[Amigaman]

You will get complete failure and the machine will not even boot, or it will give you a BIOS beep error that means "No video card present". The external screen will not work.

[eecon]

The external video ports will not work if the Nvidia GPU fails ..... period.

It sounds like your built-in LCD screen has gone bad since you still can use external monitors.

[storm525]

Hi guys"

I have a question. I own T61 7662 cto l3a9340, which is experiencing faulty GPU symptoms. Right now I am in the EU, so I could only chat with reps from lenovo. The guy couldn´t check the warranty status of my machine, for me it was also unable to check it through the web checker on the lenovo site. The result is: Error : Multiple results found, Detailed search request required. Is anybody of you able to check the warranty?

What I can see, is the 07/08 as production date on the botoom of the chasis. So for me it is, even with 3 years of warranty way, too beyond the warranty period. Should I go for a free of charge motherboard replacement?

Or would for me also work this one:
i can buy g86-741-a2 chip and let the faulty chip replace. Is this something, that can bring back smile on my face, or is it completely out of sight?..

Thanx for answer.

[Neil]

Should I go for a free of charge motherboard replacement?

If that options is available to you, then do it. Without delay!

[RealBlackStuff]

To have the GPU chip replaced, someone needs to have some seriously professional infrared reballing machine!
You don't do this in your kitchen-oven.

[storm525]

I know that, buddy, I have a friend, who makes it professional, don´t worry, I won´t be doing it at home in the owen, or with the heatgun...

But my quaestion was, if I will get the g86-741-a2 chip and let it replaced, if that will solve the problem for, at least, another 4-5 years

[RealBlackStuff]

If that is the 'improved design' nVidia GPU you should be fine for a long time.
There are/were no other problems with the T61.
Not knowing the chip price and what your 'reballer' charges, it might be cheaper to buy a matching mobo with Intel GPU.

[storm525]

No, this would be the cheapest way...

and another question....who knows, with what kinf of a chip, other then the g86-741-a2 can I replace the g86-740-a2 chip?

Supplier offers me g6-751-a2 or g86-771-a2 for realy discount price around 50 USD/Pc... He wrote something, that 740 and 741 are 64bit and 751 and 771 are 128bit.

Would it be compatible, or not?

[RealBlackStuff]

I have no idea, maybe someone else?

[eecon]

storm525 .... Are you the original owner of the T61?

[storm525]

No, I just bought it second-hand...

[eecon]

No, I just bought it second-hand...

Make sure the Nvidia chip has a date code of 0827A2 or newer (the date code is found in the upper right hand corner expressed as YrWkA2). Thus 0827A2 is the 27th week of 2008 ... the first week of production for the good chips (both T6 and T61p) was the 27th week of 2008.

Here is a photo of a 15.4" T61 during mainboard replacement with a good Nvidia chip from 2010 (Onsite warranty at my home earlier this year). I sold the T61 right after the warranty work:

http://home.comcast.net/~coolviewer/New/T61-8.JPG

Also, double-check your model 7662 number on the bottom label (assuming the bottom label is still readable). I think it may be 7663, because I used that instead (with your S/N at the Lenovo Warranty check page) and comes up as a 7663-MJ1 with warranty ended in July 2010.

In any event, original country of purchase was China the first time I tried it so my guess is Lenovo EU and USA will redirect you to Asia. Subsequent checks come up with N/A as the original country of purchase (something funny going on) ..... Also the Lenovo Parts Look-up page is still showing the database error on the unit using either 7662 or 7663 ... so it may have been reported to Lenovo as stolen or scrapped ..... so tread carefully, don't get yourself into trouble by flashing your S/N around online or on the phone unless you are 110% sure about the unit's ownership history ..... (also recommend you edit your earlier posting).

So if you are 110% postive it was not stolen, then I'd call Lenovo EU and simply ask if you can purchase a US$180 - US$200 Post-Warranty Maintenance agreement for your unit. This will at least force them to actually look-up the correct original info for you and then say "yes" or "no" as to what maintenance plans are available from Lenovo for your machine. My guess is "no" plans will be available as it possibly was originally from China, plus it's been nearly 18 months since the warranty exipred.

Note that the Post-Warranty Maintenance Agreement does not cover pre-existing conditions (you just use "your interest" in the Post-Warranty Agreement as your first question, so they don't hang up on you the minute you ask about getting it fixed for free post-warranty). This way, at least you'll be able confirm directly from Lenovo the Model number, what parts came with it new, and possibly the ownership history, etc.

[tomkrishan]

No, this would be the cheapest way...

and another question....who knows, with what kinf of a chip, other then the g86-741-a2 can I replace the g86-740-a2 chip?

Supplier offers me g6-751-a2 or g86-771-a2 for realy discount price around 50 USD/Pc... He wrote something, that 740 and 741 are 64bit and 751 and 771 are 128bit.

Would it be compatible, or not?

hello storm!

very interesting that there is some progress around the g86 nVidia gpu topic!

i`ve reviewed a lot in the past but than didn`t followed the issue constantly because lack of time.
i`ve posted two topics in regard to a nVidia gpu replacement so far:

the first post was questioning if a general change to another gpu brand might be possible:
there you`ll find possibly also an answer to your 64bit or 128bit question.


http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 03#p596403


as far I`ve concluded and according to your seller`s feedback as quoted:

the 740, 741 chip type of 64bit is probably the chip for the smaller 14,1" T61x machines with only 128 mb video ram.
the 751 & 771 chip type of 128bit shall be for the 15,4" T61x machines (widescreen) with 256 mb video ram.

so you are possibly just in need to let your seller confirm whichone has howmuch memory build on.

my second post was also about to find an appropriate gpu which was pretty hard to solve before the time of my post in Aug 22, 2011. I`ve searched the internet up and down for many hours.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 77#p645677

it seems in the meantime the traders understood there is a little repair market for these older nVidia g86 gpu`s.


so it would be great if you could share your experience whatever solution you will choose at the end.

have a nice day & hoping to hear how the things are developing!

[eecon]

All Lenovo 14.1" and 15.4" T61 units came with Nvidia NVS140M GPUs with either a G86-740-A2 (older vulnerable bad Nvidia chip) or the G86-741-A2 (newer good chip as of July 2008). These units had 128MB of Video RAM.

The G84-952-A2 Nvidia FX570M was used on the T61p and the 15.4" unit had 256MB of memory while the 14.1" T61p units came with only 128MB of Video RAM (on the T61p).

I do not believe Lenovo ever used any 750 or 771 GPUs on the T61 or T61p series.

[byteslayer]

Dear all,
I am terribly sorry if I am asking the same question again, although I have tried to read as much as possible before I post.
Last week I bought a T61p unit from a quite reputable firm for second-hand laptops. Of course, I was unprepared regarding this NVIDIA chip failures at the time of purchase. The production date (at the bottom) is actually 07/12 (2007/December), which puts me in trouble - unless the previous owner have had this taken care of earlier.
The computer firm are trying to convince me that the machine was a corporate laptop that they simply bought as being outdated and changed with the next model, which was a regular hardware update practice at such companies. It is a fact that it is with a Danish keyboard layout and has a big sticker (LENOVO) on top of what was supposed to be some corporate logo...So I was thinking: Is it possible that the NVIDIA problem had already been solved and if so, how am I supposed to be sure about that (besides taking everything apart).
This firm in Bulgaria have also given me a 2 weeks warranty (exp. Dec. 20) and until then I am not able to disassemble it...So besides maxing it out all the time (SPECviewPerf 11) and then cooling it down, hoping to crash it during the next few days, what else can I do...
If there was a service intervention, shouldn't there be a sticker of some sort somewhere outside?
It is a beautiful machine and i like it very much - pity if I throw it away just like that...
Any advice on my case will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you all in advance
Regards

[TuuS]

I could have offered you an 08/08 if you had come here first, but now that it's too late, and assuming you cant return it, your best bet is to clean the heatsink/fan assembly and apply some Artic Silver #5 thermal paste, and monitor the temperatures with thinkpad fan control (freeware). As far as what the people who sold it to you are saying, I've heard it dozens of times, a lame fiction to hide the fact that it has a less reliable GPU. If (and that's a big "if") it failed already, then it may have a new board in it, but there is no conclusive way to tell even by taking it apart. The GPU does have a date on it, but you cannot tell by the date alone, but if the date is newer then the laptop, then it was replaced, but there were millions of these laptops manufactured, compared to a very few thousand (perhaps) or less that have failed, so it's really not as big of a problem as it's made out to be, BUT... it won't seem like a minor problem when you need a $575 system board suddenly.

If it does die, I can get you one considerably cheaper, but if you keep an eye on the temperatures, you'll probably be ok.

Good luck

[byteslayer]

Hi all,
It is me again...
I have just installed TPfanControl and I am looking at it like that
Is it normal to have both CPU and GPU @ 60+ celsius....???....in a 20 C environment...???
and why the hell the initial boot post screen (ThinkPad Vantage Screen) stays for about 40sec and more before it boots the OS...???
Is there a place where I can compare TPfanControl readings for a T61p unit?....it would be of great help
Thanks in advance

[arlab]

Is Lenovo still repairing faulty system boards, even outside the warranty?

Or coverage for support ended on March 31, 2011, as I've seen written in other forums?

[TuuS]

Yes, coverage ended march 31st 2011, it's posted in Lenovo forum. The free repairs lasted for 13 months I believe.

[TuuS]

Hi all,
It is me again...
I have just installed TPfanControl and I am looking at it like that
Is it normal to have both CPU and GPU @ 60+ celsius....???....in a 20 C environment...???
and why the hell the initial boot post screen (ThinkPad Vantage Screen) stays for about 40sec and more before it boots the OS...???
Is there a place where I can compare TPfanControl readings for a T61p unit?....it would be of great help
Thanks in advance

60-70c is normal idle temps, I posted some screenshots that show tpfancontrol on one of my t61p units I'm selling.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=100839

Go to the last post with links and look at some of the pictures of the screen, that is idle temp after running for over 24hours on a fresh refurb using Artic Silver #5 paste.

[ThePhil]

Excuse me if it's been asked before, but the links I saw on previous pages (like the german wiki) or the ibm support links fail to cover my model which just died. It seems like the widescreens or the 14" 4:3 were much more common.

I'm looking for what the FRU would be for my T61p 15" 4:3 model. It is a 6459-CTO/L3-D3565. Although the prospect of a few hundred $$ to get an old machine working is hard to stomach, I'd love to revive it as I prefer 4:3 laptops which are really hard to find.

Thanks!

[RealBlackStuff]

Sorry to burst your bubble, your machine is a just quite common 15.4" widescreen.
This is your LCD: 42T0328 42T0329 FLT PNL DS FRU 15.4WSXGA+
This is your mobo: 44C4239 42W7877 SYSTMBRD FRU PLANAR CARD ASM NVIDIA

[ThePhil]

Of course. I was comparing it to my W520, which must be a 16:9 vs this t61 as a 16:10. Thanks.

[storm525]

OK, guys, it´s been quite a while, but...Today, i got my T61 mobo with new G86-741-A2 replaced the old one G86-740-A2. I put everything together, but, the problem is:

When I push the power button, there are lights for power input, battery charging, the funny Z sign, upper case an num lock sign. Fan on the CPU spins for a second or two, then it stops, almost together with lights other then power input, battery charging and the funny Z. Nothing happens on the screen.

Now I am in trouble, ´cos the HDD doesn´t work, neighter the light comes on. I tried to remove the HDD, DVD and HDD and power it on, ...same result, no beeps, nothing.

Could it be bad CPU, or some power issue on the board...or, infact, something with the NB or SB?

Zhanx.

[rssb]

A friend was able to recently repair a board, by keeping it in a preheated kitchen oven at 375F for 10 mins and let it cool off for 20 mins without disturbing it.

storm525, when the chip was replaced. Is it exact match in terms of device id etc.. so that the bios's video rom would have picked it correctly. Also I guess the new chip was installed correctly in terms of placement.

[storm525]

The old chip G86-740-A2 was replaced by the newer version of that, which doesn´t have the famous NVidia problem, with G86-741-A2, also lenovo/IBM used these chips on refurbished, or renovated boards, those were installed instead of those faulty ones.

Chip was replaced by professional on the professional bga rework station, almost automatic process, as he stated...

As longest as I remember, before the replacement, the symptoms were the same, when compared to the present situation.

[TuuS]

First of all you cannot fix a failed GPU by baking the board in your oven. Doing so will only cause damage to the board. Ever since 2007 when this problem first surfaced people have been trying to fix it by reflowing/reballing the boards, and heating the chip up often will change the problem, sometimes making it appear fixed, but it NEVER lasts. The only way to fix it is to replace the chip.

Also, the improved chip has the same numbers as the older ones. If you change to a new part number, then you may be installing a different processor. nVidia was very secretive about the revised chip and it's release and to this day they still deny any of them were "defects". What we do know is they begun making a revised chip, possibly as far back as febuary 2008, but since they didn't have a revised part number, Lenovo had no way of knowing what chip was installed on a board so in July 2008 they trashed their entire supply of boards, replacing them with a new shipment based on new chips supplied in a settlement with nVidia. I've compared these new boards with the previous ones, the chips have the same numbers on them.

It is possible that nVidia has since made replacement chips with a different number, in fact that is more then likely, but also be aware that I know of people getting cheated by fake nVidia chips coming from Asia. These are either failed chips that have been reheated, or the older chips that have been relabeled to look like new ones. The only rechipped boards I would trust are ones made by Lenovo, and even they have been known to fail from time to time. it's hard to reball a board and not do serious damage to it. When done properly, the entire board is pre-heated, then the gpu area is heated from the top and bottom at the same time until the chip is freed, then the reballed chip is installed in the same manner, but extensive testing is usually done after rechipping, then don't normally just install the chip and ship out the board, the board is diagnosed first, every circuit checked, if it all passes, then the chip is replaced and the board rechecked. If your rechipped board behaves the same as it did before, then you may have had a non gpu issue, or it's very likely the board was fried from the heat. It's hard to say for sure, but I usually recommend getting a good "virgin" 08/08 board whenever possible, instead of a rechipped board. If you have a 15.4" unit, then I could help you, if you have a non-widescreen, then you'll need to get a rechipped board, or take your chances with a used board. If you have a 14.1 widescreen, then I'd recommend an intel board, they are very common on this model.

[storm525]

Hello TuuS!

Thanx for long article.... The chip was bought brand new, according to the specs, it should be the replacement for the faulty one.

Replace has been made on professional machine, so I suppose, there will be no problem.

As I cannot go into bios whatsoever, I think, it can be northbridge or southbridge problem, or even anything alse on the board. Does anyone have the circuit diagram for 14,1" widescreen NVidia model?