T61 Startup problem when on battery

[solarGeorge]

Hi,
I have a T61 with Intel graphics which I bought second hand and has turned out to be a bit of a patchwork machine, I don't know what the original model number is because the base plastic was changed without the stickers being transferred and the LCD has been swapped to a 1440x900 from whatever the standard low resolution was.
The problem I am having now is that every time I try to start the machine on battery, after disconnecting it from the power cable (it doesn't appear to matter how long ago this was done) it will not start. The fan spins, the hdd starts spinning and the leds all cycle as normal, with the exception of the hdd led but nothing else happens. The screen does not turn on (not even the backlight) and it will just sit there with the "powered on" led and battery/mains led (depending on how it is powered) on until I turn it off.
It does this every time I try to turn it on, even if it is reconnected to the mains, until it is left for some time (seems to be >5minutes) when it will just work as normal again.
If I remove the RAM I don't hear any error beeps until the point where it suddenly starts working again (or would if the RAM was in). I've also tested with an external monitor connected and nothing appears there.

Any help or advice appreciated.

[davidhbrown]

solarGeorge... what tests of the battery itself have you run? Presumably you can boot from mains power with the battery installed, run the Lenovo Power Manager, and find the "Battery details" information. The full charge capacity vs design capacity, voltage vs. design voltage, cycle count and dates of manufacture and first use would be particularly helpful in deciding whether you might just need a new battery.

If you don't have the Lenovo software but you believe the battery to be charged, try booting it with mains and battery -- maybe stop at the BIOS setup screen if you don't want Windows to complain about a bad shutdown -- and then remove the mains power to see if it will keep running on just the battery.

Based on your description of the system being unresponsive for several minutes, there may certainly be something else going on. But it would be a good idea to do some checking of the battery itself, I think.

[solarGeorge]

Hi davidhbrown,
I know that the laptop can run on just battery as it will start and run fine if I leave it for some time after the first failed power-up - this behaviour is the same whether the mains lead is reconnected or not. When I do get it running on battery I get about four hours battery life with normal use.

However in case its still relevant I have pasted below all the battery information I can get from the linux acpi system - I've not got any windows install on this machine to run the lenovo tools on.

Code: Select all

`--> cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info
present:                 yes
design capacity:         84240 mWh
last full capacity:      78280 mWh
battery technology:      rechargeable
design voltage:          10800 mV
design capacity warning: 3914 mWh
design capacity low:     200 mWh
cycle count:              0
capacity granularity 1:  1 mWh
capacity granularity 2:  1 mWh
model number:            42T4530
serial number:           40970
battery type:            LION
OEM info:                SANYO
`--> cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state
present:                 yes
capacity state:          ok
charging state:          discharging
present rate:            14710 mW
remaining capacity:      78220 mWh
present voltage:         12424 mV

The cycle count is obviously wrong as I'm sure I've cycled the battery several times myself (although I use the laptop mainly plugged in) and it was second hand when I got it.

[solarGeorge]

OK, something new here. When I tried booting the machine of battery immediately after removing the power cable I heard an error beep; one beep then a pause, then three beeps then a pause, then another three beeps, then a pause and a single beep. When I turned the laptop off and then on again to make sure I'd got the pattern correct it didn't beep but did its usual nothing with the power and mains light on and the hdd spinning.

[RealBlackStuff]

1-3-3-1 means you have RAM problems.
Take out 1 module, then try again. Move it to the other slot, then try again.
Repeat this with the other module.
If still no joy, run at least 2 cycles of Memtest on each, and then combined, module: http://www.memtest.org/

[solarGeorge]

RealBlackStuff:
I don't get that error consistently which means I can't follow your first suggestion but I'll run memtest, do you think that it is more likely to be a problem with the BIOS or mainboard which incorrectly produces the RAM error beeps?

EDIT:I've finished running memtest as suggested and it didn't find any problems.

[RealBlackStuff]

You should do that test with a single DIMM in each slot. You either find a bad slot or a bad DIMM.
If you can't spot a bad DIMM, then your motherboard has an intermittent fault.
Beep codes: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 46018.html
Intermittent faults: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 45658.html
Sorry I can't help any further from a distance.

[solarGeorge]

Thanks RealBlackStuff,
I've done all the memory tests as you suggest and can't find anything wrong, additionally I've only had that (or for that matter any) beep code once. All of that does agree with it being an intermittent fault somewhere but it does seem to be a very odd one. Have you ever seen one that is triggered in the same way (upon removal of the power lead but recovering itself after a variable amount of time) in other thinkpads?

I've also tested the system with the pc-doctor boot disk and it can't find anything wrong. . . I know there's not that much you can do to troubleshoot via forums, but would you guess that the fault is likely to be in the mainboard or might it be somewhere else in the system?
If its most likely to be the mainboard then I'll just have to pretend my thinkpad is a desktop and look to replace it when I can . . . I've already replaced the mainboard once in this laptop I'm beginning to think it must be cursed . . .

[RealBlackStuff]

Dig a bit deeper. Remove the wifi and modem cards, a WWAN card if you have it, and the CD/DVD drive, then try again.
Bad wifi cards (a prime suspect) can cause all sorts of mayhem.

[solarGeorge]

Right, tried all of that, no changes at all. . . I even removed and re-seated the CPU and replaced the heatsink and fan with a spare I bought when I thought the original was failing.
I also checked all of the connections that I could see and they were all correct and weren't loose. Since there's not much else that can be removed to test I guess that's narrowed it down to definitely the mainboard?

[RealBlackStuff]

Have you tried it with also the hard disk removed? That's the last item I can think off.

Another test:
with the machine shut down, remove main battery and the AC adapter. Let it sit for a few minutes.
Press the Power button and hold it down for a second. Repeat 10 times. Then press Power again but hold it down for 30 seconds.
This normally causes the laptop to reset, by emptying any charges that might be left in the laptop's capacitors.
Reconnect power and try it again.

[solarGeorge]

The hdd was one of the items I removed while doing the WLAN etc. tests and the static discharge was one of the first things I tried (sorry I forgot to mention it).
EDIT: I retried the power button thing after reading your post just to make sure but it was still ineffective.

Do you think its worthwhile to strip the machine down totally and do a visual inspection of the mainboard? My own thoughts are that it would probably be a waste of time since I imagine that any visible fault would lead to permanent problems not this strange intermittent trouble, but perhaps you think otherwise?

[RealBlackStuff]

You have to take it apart anyway if you are going to replace the mobo, so you might as well.
If you find any gunk or sticky stuff, there may have been a liquid spillage.
If found, get some isopropyl alcohol (91% or 99%) in a pharmacy, to clean it off.
Also check the ethernet, modem, and USB ports for bent/broken pins, check the SD card and PCMCIA slot and any other slots you may have for debris/dust/rust/junk/gunk.
Before you dump the old board, I may have some use for it. Contact me via PM when you are ready.

[solarGeorge]

RealBlackStuff:
I'm not planning to replace the motherboard since the laptop still works fine when its kept connected to the mains (which is how I mainly use it). I don't have the cash for a new mainboard right now and when I do I'll probably be able to afford a new machine (I quite like the look of the T420 with the upgraded screen).