Thinkpads Forum

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:44 pm**

Is wide screen Better then the normal screen? does it have more space or something

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:27 pm**

No. It's just spaced differently, and one could argue that you actually lose space with widescreen laptops.

If you watch a lot of movies on your laptop, you'll like the widescreen format.

If you use it mostly for web and office applications, the standard 4:3 format will likely be a better choice.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:49 pm**

Can't swap screens can you? would the mobo support?

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:53 pm**

Mobos are physically different between widescreen and standard laptops...even when the specs are exactly the same...

And you've guessed it...no screen swaps.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:22 am**

Wow, widescreens seem to be so unpopular on this Forum. I personally love them. I'm typing on a widescreen T61 right now. I have used many laptops with a 4:3 aspect ratio and I don't feel like I lose any viewing pleasure on a widescreen. As mentioned a widescreen is great for watching movies and videos. As for browsing the web, my widescreen is indispensable. I definitely have more room available- I feel like I have the normal screen area available and then an extra inch and a half on the right side. What I have done is move my windows taskbar from the default bottom of the screen to that extra 1 1/2 inch space on the right and it works great for me. I can have 19 open Firefox windows easily accesible. I have ample screen space for viewing a webpage and also my little tabs on the right. The setup works great for me. I'm so glad I discovered the widescreen models. The only reason I would prefer a 4:3 screen is for traveling/portability with its smaller size fitting more easily into a backpack or laptop case. If others prefer a 4:3 screen, that's great. For me, the widescreen set up as I have described is the best way for me to have enough screen space and 19 Firefox windows open at once. I could not do as much work as efficiently on a 14.1 inch screen with a 4:3 ratio as I am doing on my 14.1 inch T61 widescreen right now. In other words, the 4:3 is fine until you start opening up like 20 Firefox windows then you lose so much screen space that viewing a web page becomes cumbersome and you have to scroll down more often to see as much as you could on a widescreen set up as I have described. Works for me...

Daniel.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:43 am**

I think the main reason why widescreen is so unpopular on this forum, is that most users here are business users, for most of whom widescreen is a lot less useful than 4:3.
And I concur, no widescreen for me!

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:40 am**

It really comes down to personal preferences and usage patterns. Thinkpad Lover's method is one good way to compensate somewhat for the vertical space lost and use the extra horizontal space, if the main goal is to browse the web with many open windows at once.

Programmers, document writers, spreadsheet creators, photo editors - each and all will have different set of goals and preferences.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:40 am**

Thinkpad Lover wrote:Wow, widescreens seem to be so unpopular on this Forum. I personally love them. I'm typing on a widescreen T61 right now. I have used many laptops with a 4:3 aspect ratio and I don't feel like I lose any viewing pleasure on a widescreen. As mentioned a widescreen is great for watching movies and videos. As for browsing the web, my widescreen is indispensable. I definitely have more room available- I feel like I have the normal screen area available and then an extra inch and a half on the right side.

IMHO, it is not so much a matter of aspect ratio, but rather a matter of vertical pixel loss. There is no vertical pixel loss at all with a 16:10 screen resolution of the T61, as it actually has additional horizontal pixels added without sacrificing any vertical screen real estate. Furthermore, the T61 wide screen models have much better quality screens than the 4:3 models. I have both types of T61 for comparison, and either has it's merits and shortcomings, depending upon the usage pattern.

The annoyance really starts with the introduction of the 16:9 display form factor, where vertical pixels are sacrificed, and which is actually a real loss for comfortable productivity for any usual standard office type usage. That is what most people actually dislike about wide screen displays.

Thinkpad Lover wrote:The only reason I would prefer a 4:3 screen is for traveling/portability with its smaller size fitting more easily into a backpack or laptop case.

This is the other much bigger annoyance: There is no more alternative 4:3 display size option, which was so much more convenient for portability. This option has simply been taken away, and unfortunately industry wide, so that there is no alternative left at all other than going back to older machine models.

To summarize, the case is not so much against the wide screen displays, but rather against the complete loss of any form of the convenience of the 4:3 display size form factor.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:28 am**

duke1 wrote:Is wide screen Better then the normal screen? does it have more space or something

First of all, let me make sure you understand the terminology. There have been six or seven different aspect ratios for laptops. Of these, the most common are 4:3 (traditionally referred to as "standard"; some call it "tallscreen"), 16:10 ("widescreen"), and 16:9 (also "widescreen", although some people hate it so much that they call it "shortscreen" or "squatscreen"). Virtually all the current laptops are 16:9, and the handful of 4:3 and 16:10 machines still being sold will be phased out in the very near future. So, there are really two kinds of "widescreen", and "normal" really means 16:9 nowadays.

I noticed in your other thread that you want to buy either a T60 or a T61. Both models were available in either 4:3 or 16:10, and so you really don't need to worry about the 16:9 ratio that so many people despise. The 4:3 models came in three varieties: some had a maximum resolution (AKA "native resolution") of 1024x768, some were 1400x1050, and a few were 1600x1200. For the 16:10 models, four different native resolutions were offered: 1280x800, 1440x900, 1680x1050, and 1920x1200. The higher the resolution, the more information you can display on the screen, allowing you to scroll less and to view multiple windows side by side. However, as resolution goes up, things look smaller on the screen. If you want to strike a good balance between real estate and viewing comfort, you may want to get 1400x1050 for a 4:3 laptop, or 1440x900 or 1680x1050 for 16:10.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:02 pm**

so people hate the 16:9? is that where all the complaints come from? does the 16:10 look good?

I think i am going to go to the wal mart and look at the laptops, Any models i should look at?

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:16 pm**

duke1 wrote:so people hate the 16:9? is that where all the complaints come from? does the 16:10 look good?

Just reread some of the earlier posts in this thread. People hate the short vertical real estate of the 16:9 ratio. 16:10 is far more popular. I love my Dell Latitude D820, which is 16:10 with 1920x1200.

duke1 wrote:I think i am going to go to the wal mart and look at the laptops, Any models i should look at?

Both Wal-Mart and Staples only sell the absolute cheapest garbage. Best Buy has several halfway decent laptops, whereas Micro Center and Frys have even more. But all of their PC laptops are 16:9. At Wal-Mart and Staples, you will probably see mostly 15.6" 1366x768 laptops, plus one or two 17.3" 1600x900 ones. Try surfing the web on 1366x768 versus 1600x900 and you will notice that you can view more information on the latter.

To see a 16:10 laptop, your only options would be the Macs.

Have you tried your local Craigslist? The seller may let you play with the laptop before committing to buy.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:28 pm**

As I mentioned before I have a T61 14.1" widescreen that I'm typing on right now. I just checked and it has 1280x800 resolution. So I guess that would be considered 16:10. I guess that's why I haven't noticed any loss of vertical space. I also have a T60 15.4" widescreen that I love even more for watching videos. It's also 1280x800 so once again 16:10. It's a type 6369-6ru with very loud speakers so I never feel the need to plug in external speakers. For entertainment purposes it's great. I don't think I've ever seen a 16:9 widescreen but if there is a loss of vertical space I don't think I would want that. The T60 and T61 are my stay at home laptops. For serious business use and ultra-portability I use my x60s with a 12.1" screen. I don't know what the screen aspect ratio is on that but it's light-weight enough so never cumbersome on long trips and the screen size is still large enough for comfortable/prolonged viewing/composing of M.S. Word documents, video editing, and most of my other common tasks. Anything smaller I think would cause a lot of eyestrain.

Daniel.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:57 pm**

I checked out the laptops at wal mart, they had a 14" and a 15.5", The 15'5 looked huge compared to the 14", Think ill go with the 14"

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:05 pm**

Thinkpad Lover wrote:Wow, widescreens seem to be so unpopular on this Forum.

There are some noisy users who detest them and post a lot about their dislike, and there are whole bunch of other users who just get on with life with whatever screen come with their ThinkPads

Cheers,

Bill B.

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:19 pm**

This labtop has a VGA port?

Posted: **Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:21 pm**

Yes, pretty much all ThinkPads that I could think of have a VGA port...

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:05 am**

Is the bottom case larger when the screen is 15.4"? The keyboard area, Vs the 14?

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:12 am**

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:43 am**

Thinkpad Lover wrote:Wow, widescreens seem to be so unpopular on this Forum.

Preferences do change over time though. When 4:3 transitioned into 16:10 about half a decade ago, at first there was a lot of resistance to the change but gradually people began to realize that 1280x800 was better than 1024x768 both vertically and horizontally, and 1920x1200 was better than 1600x1200 horizontally (although 1440x900 versus 1400x1050 remained a problem for many). On the other hand, the migration from 16:10 to 16:9 is harder to swallow. This is because both 1280x800 --> 1366x768 and 1920x1200 --> 1920x1080 result in a loss of vertical space (although 1440x900 --> 1600x900 is an improvement in horizontal space, making it easier to view two windows side by side), and because 15.*-inchers have become so wide that they are difficult to transport, not to mention 16.*-inch and larger laptops. 15.4" 16:10 laptops such as my Dell Latitude D820 are barely not too wide.

duke1 wrote:Is the bottom case larger when the screen is 15.4"? The keyboard area, Vs the 14?

The ltwbook has detailed specs of the different configurations of the T61, including dimensions, weight, aspect ratio and resolution, GPU, etc.:

http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/ltwbook.pdf

duke1 wrote:I checked out the laptops at wal mart, they had a 14" and a 15.5", The 15'5 looked huge compared to the 14", Think ill go with the 14"

Most 4:3 14" T61's with Intel graphics are 1024x768, and most 16:10 14" T61's with Intel graphics are 1280x800. The 16:10 widescreen has a slightly smaller screen, but you get more pixels. However, the 4:3 version has a smaller footprint, i.e. width x depth is smaller than the 16:10.

Right now, this is the cheapest fully functional 14.1" widescreen T61 with Intel graphics on eBay, and the seller's feedback history is 100% positive:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lenovo-IBM-ThinkPad ... 2a1227ea04

$230 shipped is slightly above your budget though.

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:49 pm**

Could i get some photos of a 14inch widescreen next to a 14inch standard size? thanks

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:54 pm**

pianowizard wrote:Preferences do change over time though. When 4:3 transitioned into 16:10 about half a decade ago, at first there was a lot of resistance to the change but gradually people began to realize that 1280x800 was better than 1024x768 both vertically and horizontally, and 1920x1200 was better than 1600x1200 horizontally (although 1440x900 versus 1400x1050 remained a problem for many). On the other hand, the migration from 16:10 to 16:9 is harder to swallow. This is because both 1280x800 --> 1366x768 and 1920x1200 --> 1920x1080 result in a loss of vertical space (although 1440x900 --> 1600x900 is an improvement in horizontal space, making it easier to view two windows side by side), and because 15.*-inchers have become so wide that they are difficult to transport, not to mention 16.*-inch and larger laptops. 15.4" 16:10 laptops such as my Dell Latitude D820 are barely not too wide.

My kudos to you for this perfectly balanced summary of the display situation in the notebook world, including Thinkpads! Thanks!

Other than that, i have to admit that i was not able to appreciate that 1920x1200 was better than 1600x1200 horizontally. Personally, for me the DPI value of a 15,4" WUXGA is already too far away from the 14,1" SXGA+ one, and WUXGA turned out to be simply far too tiny for my aging eyes. In the end i just sold the machine (T61p 6460-6XG) again.

Code: Select all

        inch     ratio  horiz  vert   dpi
SXGA+   14,1     4/3    1400   1050   124,11
UXGA    15       4/3    1600   1200   133,33
WUXGA+  15,4     16/10  1920   1200   147,02

(Source: http://thinkpad-wiki.org/Zoom/DPI_Einstellungen)

In this regard, standard 15" UXGA is still pretty much perfect, at least for me. Pity we don't have that option anymore.

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:18 pm**

duke1 wrote:Could i get some photos of a 14inch widescreen next to a 14inch standard size? thanks

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73194

You can just pretend that the 14.1" 4:3 T60 was a T61. BTW, this thread reminds me how much I like the Z61t. It's more compact than the widescreen T61 and it's lighter as well. You may want to consider getting one, though it's older than the T61.

rumbero wrote:My kudos to you

Thanks!

rumbero wrote:Other than that, i have to admit that i was not able to appreciate that 1920x1200 was better than 1600x1200 horizontally. Personally, for me the DPI value of a 15,4" WUXGA is already too far away from the 14,1" SXGA+ one, and WUXGA turned out to be simply far too tiny for my aging eyes.

I happen to be typing this message on my Latitude D820's 15.4" WUXGA, and I am viewing the screen at a distance of close to 2 feet! For how long did you try to get used to your 15.4" WUXGA T61p? I first experienced 15.4" WUXGA in Nov 2006, when I bought a Dell Inspiron 6000. Before that, the highest DPI I had used was 15.0" UXGA, on an A31p, and I agree the difference is significant. It took me three months or so to get used to the Inspiron 6000! During those three months, I had to reduce the screen res to 1280x800 once in a while to allow my eyes to relax. But now I am very comfortable with this resolution and like it a lot more than 1600x1200 because it's much easier to view two windows side by side.

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:07 pm**

pianowizard wrote:For how long did you try to get used to your 15.4" WUXGA T61p?

I have an average myopia since almost 40 years, and do wear glasses because of that. I doubt that i will see any eye sight improvement in the near future anyway, so i have to choose my display resolutions accordingly. So 15" UXGA was the wisest choice up until now.

I tried the T61p WUXGA for a few weeks with mixed results, depending on the time of the day, how much fatigue my eyes already had, etc. This display resolution proved to to be too small for comfortable viewing most of the time, and since i didn't want to maintain an inclined position towards the screen while working on the machine, i finally decided to put it aside and took measures to just sell it.

Posted: **Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:36 pm**

rumbero wrote:I have an average myopia since almost 40 years, and do wear glasses because of that.

My vision isn't good either, and I have been wearing glasses since age 9.

rumbero wrote:I tried the T61p WUXGA for a few weeks with mixed results, depending on the time of the day, how much fatigue my eyes already had, etc. This display resolution proved to to be too small for comfortable viewing most of the time

If you don't mind getting a larger laptop, WUXGA is awesome on a 17.0" screen. The pixel density is the same as 15.0" UXGA, i.e. 133 DPI. The lightest 17.0" WUXGA laptop is the 6.6-lb MacBook Pro, whereas the lightest 17.0" WXUGA PC laptop is possibly the 6.8-lb Dell Vostro 1720 although I am not sure. I had a Dell Precision M90 for several months and loved it, but sold it because it wasn't used often enough. You may be wondering, if the M90 was so awesome why didn't I use it more? That's because my desktop computers' 24" WUXGA and 30" 2560x1600 are even more awesome LOL!

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