Upgrading From core Duo to core 2 duo issue

[bass1175]

I have a chipset version 03 and a southbridge version B0. I tried to upgrade from the t2500 to a t7300 processor and the notebook wont power up, it shuts down immediately. Any Ideas? Have a bios from 2010 not sure the version but it seemed updated enough. Thanks for any help.

[rumbero]

I have a chipset version 03 and a southbridge version B0. I tried to upgrade from the t2500 to a t7300 processor and the notebook wont power up, it shuts down immediately. Any Ideas? Have a bios from 2010 not sure the version but it seemed updated enough.

Are we speaking about a T60 here? Assuming this is the case, you should be aware that only even numbered Merom CPU's are able to run in a T60.
The Merom T7300 you tried to use requires a mainboard with Santa Rosa Chipset, as typically found only in T61 Thinkpads.

So, for a T60 with a Merom capable revision 3 mainboard you would rather need to get hold of a T7200, T7400, or even T7600, instead.

See http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/T60 and http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Intel_Core_2_Duo_(Merom) for reference.

[bass1175]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, yes its a T60. I feel its a more solid machine the the T61 I got and would rather keep my T60 then the T61. The T61 model is 7662-CTO.

[bass1175]

whats the highest cpu I can upgrade to? Will a t9600 work?

[rumbero]

whats the highest cpu I can upgrade to? Will a t9600 work?

If you'd check the links i provided in my first reply you'd find the answer to your question by yourself.
According to this, the T7600 is the highest possible CPU. Just keep in mind that it is also the least affordable one.
The best bang for the buck would probably be the T7200, which is practically on par with the T7300 from the T61.

The T9600 is yet another CPU generation which is not supported at all on the T60, not even on the T61.

BTW, i also preferred to keep the T60 due to its superior 15.1" UXGA display, but didn't want to renounce the
much better T61 mainboard options consisting of the ability to use up to 8GB of RAM and a cooler Penryn CPU,
combined with the defect free Intel X3100 graphic chip. So i recombined the best of the two T6x generations into
a much better Frankenpad, on which i am currently typing these lines. Search the forum for "Frankenpad" to get
some more information about this possibility.

[bass1175]

Thought it was only one link. The Frankenpad sounds the best of both worlds, probably will search for a t7200 and in another year upgrade to an I7 machine. The T60 is a lot more solid then the T61 though, you can tell there was a loss of Quality when making the T61.

[Harryc]

The T60 is a lot more solid then the T61 though, you can tell there was a loss of Quality when making the T61.

Having owned both I totally disagree with that statement. The T61 is every bit a as 'solid' as a T60 as far as design, strength etc. In fact their designs are very similar. If you've ever had the opportunity to strip both down to screws and parts ( I have, many many times) then you'd agree. The T61 in fact has an extra roll cage built into the LCD, so one might argue that it is more solid than a T60. If we shift the discussion to ATI vs. nVidia GPU reliability, then that is another topic altogether.

[rumbero]

The T60 is a lot more solid then the T61 though, you can tell there was a loss of Quality when making the T61.

While the T61 sure has some deficiencies, especially in regard to the dreaded nVIDIA bug and the loss of the IPS/Flexview display options, it is definitely on par with the T60 regarding build quality. In fact it even excels the T60 in some areas, foremostly due to the added display rollcage, which makes the 14.1" T61 the most desirable machine for mobile use.

I use a variety of both T60 and T61 machines, which i have also completely disassembled and rebuilt, and therefore i do know what i am defending here.

[bass1175]

I just took both apart today doing this CPU swap, just didnt seem as solid as the t60. Maybe because the 61 is a bit wider with the speakers on the side, leaves more room for flexing.

[rumbero]

I just took both apart today doing this CPU swap, just didnt seem as solid as the t60. Maybe because the 61 is a bit wider with the speakers on the side, leaves more room for flexing.

The nice advancement provided by both the T60 and the T61 was the successful elimination of the flexing troubles which were plaguing the T4x generation.
So i really wouldn't worry about that with any incarnation of the T6x's.

But when comparing machines, better make sure to tell the apples apart from the oranges, and better stay within reach of similar categories:

The T60 came in three distinct sizes:

• 14.1" screen and body size in 4:3 form factor
• 15" screen and body size in 4:3 form factor
• 15.4" wide screen and body size in 16:10 form factor

Then the T61 was available in three other different sizes:

• 14.1" screen and body size in 4:3 form factor
• 14.1" wide screen and body size in 16:10 form factor
• 15.4" wide screen and body size in 16:10 form factor

As can easily be seen, there was some clear shape shifting going on from 4:3 to 16:10 form factor, leaving only the 14.1" with 4:3 form factor and the 15.4" with 16:10 form factor as shared territory. Since each case design has its own bag of problems to carry, it is only worthwhile to rather compare equal pairs. But this should probably be better the matter of another thread.

[bass1175]

I have the 14" 1400x1050 and its superb and very crisp. I actually like it better then the T61 which is 14" 1440x900. Which one would you prefer?

[rssb]

14.1' sxga+ in T6x is much superior than the T4x series and is also better than the Wxga models.

There is no flexing on the motherboard in T6x series. However the keyboard (no full size Ctrl and Alt keys), stiffness of keyboard and hinges are inferior than the T4x series.T4x NMB keyboard feels much better than a T6x NMB.

[dr_st]

While the T61 sure has some deficiencies, especially in regard to the dreaded nVIDIA bug and the loss of the IPS/Flexview display options

Also the hinges are total crap (14" wide T61) and the machine is ugly as hell.

However, if one gets a 14" 4:3 T61, and replaces the whole top cover with a T60 14" cover, he will have quite a nice-looking machine, which will take more powerful CPUs and up to 8GB of RAM. Now that might be very nice!

[bass1175]

I think if I upgrade my cpu on the t60 ill be very satisfied. the core 2 duo is so much faster then the core duo. But love my t60 way more then this t61. I have them both turned on right now and my 1400x1050 screen on the t60 is very vibrant compared to the t61 lcd. So Im on the hunt for any core 2 duo as even the 2.ghz is sufficient for my work.

[bass1175]

T7300 chip is much cheaper then a t7200 chip both 2.0ghz, is this due to high demand for the even number chips. Seems most of the odd numbers are pretty cheap.

[ajkula66]

Another option are T5500/5600 CPUs which are dirt cheap nowadays...

[bass1175]

sure is and probably not much of a difference ( I dont think) to the t7200.

[rumbero]

sure is and probably not much of a difference ( I dont think) to the t7200.

Comparing these 4 CPU's via www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Processors ... 436.0.html might be useful:

The differences between the T5500/T5600 and the T7200/T7300 are not insignificant enough, to want to limit oneself to the cheaper T5x00 option.
In fact, the T7x00 CPU's have twice as much second level cache than the T5x00 ones, which should provide a much better overall performance.

[ajkula66]

While the differences most certainly are there, they are next to imperceptible in average daily use...I've tested T2500/5600/7200 in the same machine and honestly haven't noticed much of a difference...

Now, for some serious and CPU-intensive work, T7200 or above is definitely the way to go.

[bass1175]

t7200 it is, I did notice a big difference from the t60 core duo and the t61 core 2 duo, I also used super Pi mod and the t7300 was twice as fast as the t2500. The t61/t7300 laptop has a fresh install of xp on it, not sure if the twice as fast speed is because of the processor or because of the clean os installed. I will go with the t7200. My first core 2 duo and coming from the M cpu and now the t60 core duo, it is a big leap in performance, I can definitely tell the difference. I also noticed the t61 doesnt have the IBM logo and instead it says Tseries, maybe this has something to do with the drop in quality during this period? I hope the t400 machines didnt lack in quality.

[dr_st]

I also used super Pi mod and the t7300 was twice as fast as the t2500.

No way. There was definitely something wrong with the measurement.

My first core 2 duo and coming from the M cpu and now the t60 core duo, it is a big leap in performance, I can definitely tell the difference.

Clock-for-clock, the early Core 2 Duo are 10-15% faster than a Core Duo. The T7200 is thus about 15% faster than a T2500. The T7300 will be marginally faster than a T7200, maybe. This is only as far as CPU speed goes. Overall system snappiness will depend a lot on other factors (amout of RAM, speed of hard drive).

I also noticed the t61 doesnt have the IBM logo and instead it says Tseries, maybe this has something to do with the drop in quality during this period? I hope the t400 machines didnt lack in quality.

Here we go again.

Yes, the logo is definitely responsible for the drop in quality. That's because (and very few people know that), each of the original IBM logos contains inside the magical essence of the sacred jewel of 4 souls, which makes the metal stronger, the plastics more durable and the tech support hotline response speedier.

[RealBlackStuff]

Here we go again.

Yes, the logo is definitely responsible for the drop in quality. That's because (and very few people know that), each of the original IBM logos contains inside the magical essence of the sacred jewel of 4 souls, which makes the metal stronger, the plastics more durable and the tech support hotline response speedier.

ROFL

[nfotis]

The link was useful (OK, the bigger processors don't have a larger coverage in benchmarks).
My T60 has the T5500 CPU, and there are times I would like something faster (especially when processing large images)

I am checking on Ebay for the T7200 and T7400, but the prices (especially for the latter one) are too steep for my tastes - it's better to get a whole T60 with similar money!

N.F.

[bass1175]

Yea I think its worth the upgrade I definitely noticed a difference from the t60 to the c2d on the t61.
As far as the 4 jewels. I think after the t30 models there was a drop in quality, not sure about customer support, but you can see the quality degradation in the t4x series, then improved again in the t60 but seen some sloppiness in the t61. Ive been using these since the x600 and riding the quality changes.

[ajkula66]

bass175 wrote:

I think after the t30 models there was a drop in quality, not sure about customer support, but you can see the quality degradation in the t4x series,

Quality degradation compared to what?

[bass1175]

Compared to the t3x and earlier. That was one solid machine, then I got a t41 which was nothing but problems, then T43 GPU went twice. So yea compared to the older models from T30 and back.

[ajkula66]

Huh...

600 series - no complaints here.

T2x and A2x...BOD (Blink Of Death) issues left and right, apart from T23 which had its own set of problems. Shoddy palmrests on T2x that cracked very easily.

A3x series - GPU failures, VRAM corruption, bad RAM slots.

T30...while they felt very solid physically, IBM must have replaced tens of thousands of motherboards due to RAM slot unsoldering. Hot running units with noisy fans when you go to top-shelf models. Useless 150-nit LCDs on about half of them. And I happen to like these machines personally...

I could go on and on, but I'm sure you catch my drift...

So, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder...the last ThinkPads that most users had no gripes with were 600 series, and that was over a decade ago...

[dr_st]

the last ThinkPads that most users had no gripes with were 600 series, and that was over a decade ago...

And I am sure that if web forums such as this one existed back then, there would be enough complaints about creaky/flexing plastics, and every single unit failure would get totally blown out of proportion.

[bass1175]

although they come with problems there seems to be a certain addiction to this machines, as I never tried any other make since the 600x. SO overall Im happy, even the little problems with fans and GPU has only made me more tech savvy, which is fine and at little cost. Great machines overall, great forum. Its a love hate relationship, with more love for sure or else I wouldnt be buying them.