Yellowing UXGA's

[Banshee365]

I've got a used T60p coming to replace my T61P. It is a 15" UXGA 1600x1400. I'm not sure on the brand as I havn't quite got that straight yet. A few 1600x1400 T60p's I came across on eBay mentioned a yellowed tint to them. I'd like this machine to go a while longer and I'm very particular to keeping computers in good shape and a yellow tinted screen wuld drive me nuts! Is yellowing and dimming with age common among all IPS screens or only with certain brands/resolutions. Does running the screen at a lower brightness decrease the wear over time?

[ajkula66]

UXGA is actually 1600x1200.

Yellowing is fairly common on all IPS screens, but less pronounced on AFFS LCDs such as Hydis that a large number of T60p units left the factory with.

Of course, put a Hydis in less-than-desirable environment (smoke, dust...) and it will get yellow as well.

Run the backlight at the brightness your eyes are comfortable with. A new screen costs far less than Lasik surgery.

Have fun with your "new" ThinkPad.

[Banshee365]

UXGA is actually 1600x1200.

Yellowing is fairly common on all IPS screens, but less pronounced on AFFS LCDs such as Hydis that a large number of T60p units left the factory with.

Of course, put a Hydis in less-than-desirable environment (smoke, dust...) and it will get yellow as well.

Run the backlight at the brightness your eyes are comfortable with. A new screen costs far less than Lasik surgery.

Have fun with your "new" ThinkPad.

Sorry, I don't know why I said 1600x1400. By following the parts lookup on Lenovo's site it looks as if my machine has a Hydis display. I don't smoke so that shouldn't be a problem.

I'm still contemplating making a franken-pad out of my remaining T61p parts to utilize the higher end technology in the better build and better screen of the T60p. If I plan to hold on to this T60 for a while over getting a new ThinkPad or the like maybe it would be in my best interest to keep an eye out for a good deal on a new genuine LCD as a backup. I could alway's resell it easily I'm sure.

[ajkula66]

There are several threads dealing with FrankenPadding a T61/p planar into a 15" (4:3) T60/p frame, and quite a few people had great results to report...

If it were me, I'd get a late (T9500 and such capable) T61 board with Intel graphics and call it a day, but to each his/hers own.

My T60p can still do a lot more than I require, but I'm not a power user by any stretch of imagination...hence my personal machines do not get upgraded often...

[Banshee365]

That is certainly a good point to make. A lot of people get the biggest fastest most expensive machine you can buy to surf the web and store pictures on. Knowing what you're going to use it for makes decisions a lot easier and more economical rather than getting the biggest and best.

[rumbero]

I'm still contemplating making a franken-pad out of my remaining T61p parts to utilize the higher end technology in the better build and better screen of the T60p.

Since you already asked me via PM, and since all questions have already been answered very detailed in the forum, here are the links to the various postings which were the basis for my own investigations prior to performing the actual Frankenpad modfication:

forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=68248
forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=51632
forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=74413

forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=536550#p536550 says:
"The PC card connector on the T61 motherboard is female where the T60
motherboard it's male. Need the PC card cage from the T61."

forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=616799#p616799
forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=620807#p620807 (great description!)
forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=555899#p555899

[Banshee365]

Since you already asked me via PM, and since all questions have already been answered very detailed in the forum, here are the links to the various postings which were the basis for my own investigations prior to performing the actual Frankenpad modfication:

forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=68248
forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=51632
forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=74413
forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=536550#p536550 says:
"The PC card connector on the T61 motherboard is female where the T60
motherboard it's male. Need the PC card cage from the T61."

forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=616799#p616799
forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=620807#p620807 (great description!)
forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=555899#p555899

Rumbero, thanks again for your PM reply. I've read all of the posts and have a lot of info from other previous experiences to go off if I decide to frankenpad my 2 machines together. By mentioning me thinking about it I was more just sparking conversation about the mod itself rather than the technical aspects. The main reason I'm thinking about doing it is obviously for the screen. The reason I'm not totally committed to it yet is because I haven't actually seen the screen with my own eyes yet. The other reason I'm thinking about going for it is that I have every component for my T61p except the frame, covers, and LCD. I wouldn't have to buy much of anything to do what others have already pioneered.

I'm really looking forward to checking out the screen that many have a great feeling for. The yellowing issues I've been reading have me somewhat worried and wandering if I should keep on the lookout for a new screen to keep until mine degrades to a certain point. Like many others on this board I'm very picky and things like that would drive me nuts! The T60p should arrive tomorrow and I'm looking forward to messing with it comparing the differences over my 4 years of operating the T61p.

FWIW my T61p was a 8891CTO 14" standard screen. The motherboard in the machine is a 42W7874 with the nVidia 570M. There are so many horror stories of this pre Aug. '08 board but I ran it for years without issue. I replaced the thermal paste with AC5 and the temps never really got over 80°C. If I do the frankenpad deal I'll run the 42W7874 and if the GPU ever fails I'll simply put it back to stock T60p form. Buying another T61p MoBo at $300+ would be financially impractical at that point I think.

If I go the frankenpad route I think I'll take a bunch of pictures and maybe post my own experiences and FRU's of the parts I'm using and replacing.

[ajkula66]

Let's put it this way:

Unless it's been exposed to two-pack-a-day smoker puffing away directly at it 24/7/365 for the past five years, *any* IPS/AFFS screen will make you wonder why you ever bothered with a TN panel. Seriously. Even aging, pink-on-boot FlexViews will make almost any other panel look pathetic when it comes to colour reproduction and viewing angles.

As for nVidia ailments...there's a magic number of heating/cooling cycles needed to trigger the failure written somewhere on the stars, but no one really knows what it is. My opinion is that it's not a matter of "if" but the timing of "when" if we're discussing the GPUs seen on T61/p generation.

You should be able to source the planar for less than $300, for crying out loud...not everyone is building an ultimate T6x FlexView FrankenPad these days...

Or are they...

[Banshee365]

The heat cycle thing makes sense. The same holds true for some models of Lexus Electronic Control Modules in the mid 90's. After a certain amount of miles they just start doing crazy things that you can never trace down. The thing that has me wondering is I've used my T61p almost everyday for the past 4 years with light to heavy graphics loads and the temps never got very high and I've never had a problem. Being the practical and conservative that I am I'll keep a backup plan if it were to fail if I use it. That plan would be to put the T60p back to stock, as much as that would hurt! If I could swing it maybe I would look for another 61p board. For some reason I end up owning things that are almost guaranteed failures as some time and use goes down. For some reason I usually have very good luck with my stuff. I own a 6.0 power stroke diesel pickup that is known to be of the worst diesel engines ever made and mine has never shown a sliver of issue. I also take meticulous care of my stuff, however. Of course, saying that, I'll build a machine and it will fail the next day!

[rumbero]

The main reason I'm thinking about doing it is obviously for the screen. The reason I'm not totally committed to it yet is because I haven't actually seen the screen with my own eyes yet.

Well, i made some photos, which i originally posted over at the German thinkpad-forum.de at thinkpad-forum.de/threads/119697-Vergleichsfotos-T61-mit-UXGA-Flexview-Display. Another member added some of is own comparison photos in the same thread. Here are the picture links from said posting, showing the T61+ on the left and a normal T61 on the rght:

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/photo0187z.jpg
imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/photo0191k.jpg
imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/photo0194cd.jpg
imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/photo0198j.jpg
imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/photo0201g.jpg

This should give you a preliminary idea about the difference in display quality.

Buying another T61p MoBo at $300+ would be financially impractical at that point I think.

For 300$ you should easily be able to find a complete used T61. For the machines i converted, i never bought just the single parts, but complete machines. You get much more spare parts for the money this way. If everything is perfectly reusable from both donor machines (T60 & T61), you could also end up with a second machine, containing the T60 mainboard in the T61 chassis.

[Banshee365]

I just recieved my T60p and it really is great. I didn't think I could ever be happy with a downgrade from what I already had. I'm not quite as happy with the internals but that can all be changed .

The LCD Is awesome but when I first turned it on I noticed some issues. I asked the seller about the screen and he said it was perfect as far as he could tell. There is one really dark dust spec and a lighter colored one on the other side of the screen. The dark one is about an inch from the top and just right of center and it's already driving me nuts. I shouldn't be too picky about this from a used computer but i wish it at least the dark dust spec wasn't there.

The rest of the machine is sound and does appear to have better build quality than my T61p from before. It does run much hotter to the touch and the fan is slightly louder but not bad at all.

Are these dust specs a matter of when not if if I were to replace the screen one day with a perfect one?

[ajkula66]

I own several perfect UXGA screens with no flaws, and have seen many more. Some of them are close to a decade old.

Theoretically, the specs are either there or they're not...but...

Sometimes - not that often - the specs will travel, which can be both good and bad. If they crawl out from under the bezel, that's bad. If they move from corner of the screen back under the bezel, that's great. I've had both happen to me in real life.

Replace the fan with a newer one ASAP.

Enjoy this fine ThinkPad.

Good luck.

[Banshee365]

Thanks ajkula66. I do like this machine so far but am starting to wonder if I should send it back to the seller for the $300 I gave him for it. It's in great shape except for the dust spec. The temps when I first fired it up run between 80-90C on the CPU. By looking at the processes in XP I see that there is a process related to reindexing the .NET framework and it's using between 40-60% of the CPU. Maybe I should wait until that process is done and check it out from there. The machine locked up and wouldn't reboot at one point also. It booted to a very dark XP screen. I let it cool down and it stared back up fine. It was doing the .NET indexing, thinkpad updates, and windows updates which I guess was too much for it.

Replacing the fan sounds like a good idea, or maybe I should just go for the franken pad with my T61p parts which run around 40C all day long unloaded.

I've been thinking about returning it but I also have to remember that I bought a used machine and I should look at it as a starting point to build it up to my standards. I wonder if $300 is too much for a solid machine with a otherwise GREAT display. If not I'll feel great about building the machine Lenovo should have alway's built. The more I use this thing the more I like the build and screen over my T61p.

[rumbero]

If not I'll feel great about building the machine Lenovo should have alway's built.

+1

That perfectly summarizes my own stance in regard to the T61+ created by yours truly.

[ajkula66]

I'm not about to give out advice on what one should pay for a machine they *really* want, because I have a tendency of spending large amounts of money on the units that stay within this family...

The temperatures you're reporting are high. Cleaning the fan might be a good start.

What OS is it running, BTW?

Locking up is not good, and could be a cause for concern. Testing the unit thoroughly - especially the video portion - oce the fan was cleaned out would be the very first on my list of priorities. Just for the sake of knowing that you actually have a verified good planar that you could sell without fear or use in another ThinkPad/FrankenPad should you choose to do so.

Start here:

http://freestone-group.com/video-card-s ... y-test.htm

Good luck.

[Banshee365]

ajkula, thanks again! I forced the .NET que to finish it's thing and that free'd up all of my processing power again. It's idling in the low 60's right now. It is running XP Pro. I pulled the machine apart to inspect some things that I noticed with creaking/popping when opening the screen. I suspected simply a lose hinge screw or something. I found the frame broken between the VGA port and fan ports. When you wiggle the screen the side with the VGA port flexes up and down. The seller was very friendly and I'll see what he can do for me with this issue. The machine otherwise looks fantastic except for the dust spec.

I also tend to spend a little more than something is worth if it is something that I prefer so I can relate with you there. This machine feels so much tighter and more solid than anything you can lay your hands on at a big box store. I played with a Thinkpad X1 and I don't know how they can even call that a Thinkpad. I guess that's why it's in a different section on this board.

I got a look at the top of the fan and the heatsink fins and such are pretty clear of dust and lint. The fan blades have a slight film of dust on them and the fan turns nice and free. You can hear it change RPM up and down as the temps fluctuate.

I'll check out the video test that you posted.

[Banshee365]

Here are some pictures of the things I posted as pictures are worth a thousand words:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/619 ... 366d_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6139/619 ... 6096_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6158/619 ... 9d00_z.jpg

[ajkula66]

Convert these to links before a Mod or an Admin does it for you...

It's a Hydis alright. No other LCD can show these odd blue pressure marks seen in picture # 1. That should be invisible on most backgrounds, though.

The second one is a dust spec, good catch.

Busted frame, very common on T60 units at the given spot. I'd be looking for a nice chunk of change back, or returning the machine.

FWIW, I sold a T60p in a similar shape for around $200 on this forum maybe two months ago. The frame was intact, but the plastics around the fan was busted, and it had a few more pressure marks than yours does.

[Banshee365]

Thanks for the tip off on the URL's! I'm pretty new to this board but am active in many others. I wasn't quite aware of not embedding pictures in posts but it makes since now that I realize that every picture I've seen on this board has been through a link. Thanks again!

The plastic is pristine on this machine. The only thing that is physically broke is the included picture of the frame. I'm not really into jerry rigging things but it seems that I could JB weld that area back solid again as there should be room to add a bit more material to beef it up. I would end up cutting into the frame anyway's to do the frankenpad but for now I'd like an intact frame from the seller. The screen is fantastic besides the blemishes in the pictures. I really am happy with the quality of the screen and so far it's worth all of the hype that I've read. I'm typing on my wife's new Macbook Pro and after playing on the Hydis for a few hours it seems like a bit of a downgrade display wise. I guess I'll see what the seller has to offer. I'm highly doubtful that he knew the frame was broken. You're right, the pressure mark is nearly invisible on all but a black screen. The dust spec, on the other hand, likes to make itself visible at almost all times!

[ajkula66]

I'd have a big problem swallowing the possibility of welding the frame back on a $300 T60p, but that's me...

No other screen I've ever seen - and I've seen thousands - is quite like Hydis used on these machines. Personally, I find it cold and it's my least favourite FlexView, but it will still blow away pretty much any laptop LCD, including the very nice TN panels found on higher-end Macs...

Downshift, set your list of priorities and see what your next move should be...

Enjoy!

[Banshee365]

Thanks again. I ran the benchmark app you linked for me and my machine scored a 73. I forgot to set the power profile to max performance but the temp's didn't go over 90C according to CoreTemp. No locking up or freezing.

[Prodeje79]

Where did you get yours?
I've been really thinking about getting a T60p from laptopcomponents on ebay.
They appear to have an infinite supply of T60ps with 15" 1400x1050 LCDs
I realize yours is 1600 * 1200, but I am hoping to hear any additional references for that seller.

Maybe to protect myself, I could ask the seller to run a few screen tests (all white, all black, etc)?
Any thoughts appreciated.

[ajkula66]

You can always post a WTB ad in the forum's marketplace. The machine will likely cost a pinch more than it would on feebay, but the peace of mind is priceless IMO. Folks that sell on this forum are light years away from an average feebay seller, as most of them are true ThinkPad buffs themselves.

Another option - the costlier one - get one of these late SXGA+ units and throw in a brand new Hydis UXGA. Then you have the ultimate T60p just waiting for an Atheros abgn wireless card and you're done....

My $0.02 only...

[Prodeje79]

You can always post a WTB ad in the forum's marketplace. The machine will likely cost a pinch more than it would on feebay, but the peace of mind is priceless IMO. Folks that sell on this forum are light years away from an average feebay seller, as most of them are true ThinkPad buffs themselves.

Another option - the costlier one - get one of these late SXGA+ units and throw in a brand new Hydis UXGA. Then you have the ultimate T60p just waiting for an Atheros abgn wireless card and you're done....

My $0.02 only...

thanks!
You are awesome! i wish this forum had a thanks button!

Perhaps I will see how it goes, knowing I could get one of those "if I had to".
They offer replacement if there are 4 or more dead pixels in their 9 month warranty period.

While I have you...There are tons of dead pixel testing sites, any favorite of yours?
Also link(s) to reputable Hydis sellers?
EDIT: found link in this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 7&p=650209
UK ebay seller cgsplcd
Feel free to pass along others...
EDIT2: Just realized he is not a ebay UK seller.... sorry!

EDIT3: there is a damaged one on ebay for $30 shipped.

IBM OEM Genuine ThinkPad Laptop T60 T60P 15" USED LCD FRU 13N7076
USED IBM Samsung LCD. This LCD has a 2" scratch located in the top where circled in the picture. Seller Guarantees this is a working LCD.
Fits IBM T60 T60P 15" Series ThinkPad Laptops.

[ajkula66]

An oldie but a goodie...have it on a flash drive (along with a ton of other stuff) and wouldn't go anywhere without it:

http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/D ... 32638.html

AFAIK, there's only one guy on eBay selling NOS Hydis panels...don't have the link, but he's a forum member here as well...from Taiwan, I believe - don't take my word for that last part. If you cruise through T6x forum, you'll find links...

EDIT: I see that you've already located the seller I was referring to. That's all I've got.

[Banshee365]

Prodeje79, I may end up with my Hydis UXGA pictured above for sale for a much lower than retail price with the slight defects. I've accidentally won an auction for a brand new UXGA LCD on eBay. I bid way low and ended up winning it. Once it arrives I haven't decided whether I'm going to go ahead and replace my screen with the brand new one or just stock it up in the closet for future use and keep using my current LCD.

My T60p is in pieces all over my dining room table right now in the middle of the Frankenpad mod. I'm using my T61p 42W7874 with discrete nVidia FX570m graphics. This is the board known all around Thinkpad land of being a ticking time bomb. I, unlike all others on this board, trust this board and have already had 4 years of constant use out of it while the temps have stayed low. I do use Arctic Silver 5 paste however. The bottom roll cage is sitting on the table with JB Weld drying on the above pictured break in the frame between the VGA port and fan. I'm going to use my T61p discrete graphics heat sink and fan while having to use the T60p's stock hold-down clip. I've already cut off the upper left modem card mounting point and shaved the bottom of the heat sink clip location to keep it from interfering on the board.

My reason for doing this mod at this time, after having the T60p for a week, is mainly for heat and temps. My T61p ran way colder, especially on the GPU. The bottom of the T60p get's very hot in the fan area. I think my machine could use a new or at least cleaned fan although I don't think it would help much. The T60p's GPU's heat is transferred through a thermal pad instead of direct contact to the heat sink. My T61p ran in the 50's on CPU and GPU under moderate load. The GPU may run a little hotter if I loaded it hard. My T60p GPU runs in the 70's-80's just doing video chat or watching youtube videos...

Just in case my nVidia board takes a crap, I'm keeping my T60p parts with a new unmodified roll cage that i'll store the motherboard in as a backup.

[rumbero]

My T60p is in pieces all over my dining room table right now in the middle of the Frankenpad mod. I'm using my T61p 42W7874 with discrete nVidia FX570m graphics. This is the board known all around Thinkpad land of being a ticking time bomb. I, unlike all others on this board, trust this board and have already had 4 years of constant use out of it while the temps have stayed low.

If you want to have some peace of mind, you might want to check the production date printed on the nVIDIA GPU. It should look more or less like this here:

Code: Select all

nVIDIA 
UA10B165 1041A2 
S TAIWAN 
P3U612.M2W 
G84-950-A2 

The second half of the second line is a date code, which in this example resolves as "2010 calendar week 42"A2, so basically the first two digits refer to the year, and the second two digits to the calendar week. What the trailing A2 here means is not known to me.

In any case, once you have calculated what date range the calendar week of the production date of your nVIDIA GPU actually resolves into, you should be on the safe side if it indicates any day of August 2008 or later. Any nVIDIA GPU built into T61's in August 2008 and onwards don't have any production issues anymore and should be safe.

[Banshee365]

If you want to have some peace of mind, you might want to check the production date printed on the nVIDIA GPU. It should look more or less like this here:

Code: Select all

nVIDIA 
UA10B165 1041A2 
S TAIWAN 
P3U612.M2W 
G84-950-A2 

The second half of the second line is a date code, which in this example resolves as "2010 calendar week 42"A2, so basically the first two digits refer to the year, and the second two digits to the calendar week. What the trailing A2 here means is not known to me.

In any case, once you have calculated what date range the calendar week of the production date of your nVIDIA GPU actually resolves into, you should be on the safe side if it indicates any day of August 2008 or later. Any nVIDIA GPU built into T61's in August 2008 and onwards don't have any production issues anymore and should be safe.

My GPU is a Dec '07 model. I still trust it as I've used it heavily every day for 4 years with no issues what-so-ever. I'm also using it mainly because I already had it from my trashed T61p. All of the electronics are fine. In this case the electronics outlasted the case and body of the T61p.

[Prodeje79]

An oldie but a goodie...have it on a flash drive (along with a ton of other stuff) and wouldn't go anywhere without it:

http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/D ... 32638.html

I got my T60p today! This thing is mint. Iwill see how the insides look soon when I swap in the N card.
I used that DPB you shared above. Screen seems great. I may have 1 dead pixel in the corner.
What do you recommend cleaning/wiping the screen with?
I want to see if this is a piece of dirt etc vs a dead pixel.

[seiyafan]

There are online vendors that sell genuine refurbished LCD panel for the T60, are they worth buying? How would a refurbished LCD function compare to a brand new one?