IBM T60vs IBM/lenovo T60vs lenovo ThinkPad T60 build quality

[Warden]

Hello everyone.

I recently bought a second hand 2008-VAG T60 branded as IBM (without the lenovo sign near the right hinge). I was amazed by it's materials quality - the hard plastic palmrest, fantastic keyboard, metal lid covered with rubber, etc. I had to return it to the seller, because he said that it will be equipped with X1400 onboard and I got a X1300 model. He sent me another computer instead. This time I got an lenovo branded 2008-66G (but still as IBM thinkpad). All I have to say, that it feels so cheap comparing to the one I had before. The palmrest feels like it's made of thin, flexible plastic, the keyboard feels weird, the component with volume buttons and ThinkVantage button is even worse than the palmrest. One thing that made me hate this lenovo model the most is the fact, that the lid is completely plastic. The other IBM T60 had a cold, metal, rubber covered lid. I wonder, if this is the transitional model between IBM-lenovo branding, what quality are the last T60 Thinkpads made by them? Anyone else can confirm the drop of quality? What other differences can you see when comparing different models (batches? series?) of T60?

Maybe I just got a faulty model or something, but I regret not keeping the previous one. This "Thinkpad" I got feels cheap and not even close to the IBM's quality they had over the years (I was using a T21 for almost 10 years and loved every day of it).

[dr_st]

All T60s were built by Lenovo. Some of them had Lenovo branding on the clearplate, some didn't. Some had "IBM" stickers on the lid, some had "Thinkpad" stickers.

But they were all built by Lenovo, and as far as I can see, there were no changes in components at any time during the T60 production run. Some people manage to "perceive" drops in quality, but I have not seen a single evidence that it isn't just in their head.

There are some differences in lid materials between 14" and 15" models (14" have magnesium, 15" only CFRP, but both have rubbery coating). However both your machines are 14" according to the model numbers, so this shouldn't matter. I have no idea how a pure plastic lid could have gotten to that computer unless someone used a lid from an R60 (is that even possible?)

I am not aware of the availability of different types of palmrest used on these units. I've had it replaced twice on my 14" T60 and all of them felt the same.

Where some variation does exist:

There were three different keyboard manufacturers for T60 - NMB, Alps and Chicony. The three keyboard have somewhat different feel, and some people claim it is noticeable. Generally, NMB is considered the best by the majority of voters, Alps second, Chicony first (some people rank Alps above NMB). I have only had NMB keyboards on my T60s, so I cannot share my thoughts. Unfortunately, with any given unit (not even model type, but a single unit), there is no way to know what keyboard it has until you get it. This may account for your keyboard feeling weird.

There are variations in assembly quality when it comes to the fit of the keyboard and palmrest. Some units will flex more than others. Sometimes can be fixed by reseating the components.

Yours truly owns two T60s, one 14", one 15". Both are late (2007) models. I briefly owned an earlier 2006 model of T60, and did not notice any differences in favor of the older one. If anything, the tolerances on the newer one seem tighter.

I also have a few older IBM models as you can see from my signature. The T60 holds its ground quite well in terms of build quality. If you are really nitpicking, you will find a couple of places where it flexes more than older models, but you can also find examples where it is the other way around.

[lead_org]

All T60 were manufactured for Lenovo as stated on the sticker under the laptop.

I have 8 14.1 inch T60 right now and there are no variation in lid quality between the Lenovo badged and non badged version.

There were variations in the palmrest quality, only in cases where the palmrest were manufactured for interim replacement. Basically IBM did use some small manufacturers for the palmrest plastic to cater to those people whom have 5 years warranty on the T60 and T61 14.1 inch machines. But there are knockoffs palmrest plastic available on the Chinese market for the T60 and T61 machines which are still extremely popular, and the quality of those are not great, but they are cheap (like couple of dollars from memory).

Pure plastic lids were also knockoffs.

Basically whom ever sold you the machine properly rebuilt that machine from parts he got off the net.

Also, be aware that there are perforated keyboard from T400/T500/W500/R400/R500 that is in circulation in the second hand market for bulk purchase.

[steveg1988]

If you look at my T60 (MFD in Late 2008 according to the internal plastic dates) you will see the dual branding

[Warden]

Thank you for replies and meaningful opinions. Makes my descision right to send the computer back to the seller. I am now 100% certain that the lid and palmrest have been replaced. The feeling of being ripped off is now proven by facts. I expect the most of quality from T60 computers and you have to understand the dissatisfaction I felt when compared both machines I got.

[dr_st]

I am now 100% certain that the lid and palmrest have been replaced. The feeling of being ripped off is now proven by facts.

I would be wary of posting such conclusive remarks. Of course you have the right to send the machine back if you are dissatisfied for any reason, but I wouldn't necessarily jump to conclusions. Could you post some pictures of your lid/palmrest?

[Warden]

Too late for that now. I already sent it back - because the seller told me that the machine was "in factory state". I considered it to be faulty because of plastic lid and cheap palmrest. He agreed on sending me the model I had before with swapped mainboard from last one.

[Troels]

There were variations in the palmrest quality, only in cases where the palmrest were manufactured for interim replacement. Basically IBM did use some small manufacturers for the palmrest plastic to cater to those people whom have 5 years warranty on the T60 and T61 14.1 inch machines. But there are knockoffs palmrest plastic available on the Chinese market for the T60 and T61 machines which are still extremely popular, and the quality of those are not great, but they are cheap (like couple of dollars from memory).

Pure plastic lids were also knockoffs.

The idea that IBM or Lenovo would ever use any special "small manufacturers" sounds highly absurd because the setup costs would be extremely high compared to just staying with a larger manufacturer and risk warranty repairs/replacments on busted palmrests for customers who paid $$$ for the extended warranty.
Never heard of any of these knock-offs before (palmrests or lids). Do you have any links to these or pictures of those?

[Warden]

I have another question - if the seller swaps the mainboard from the computer with SXGA+ screen to XGA machine will he have to flash new EDID?

[RealBlackStuff]

no