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win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

X2/X3/X4x series specific matters only
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kaitanium
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win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#1 Post by kaitanium » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:27 pm

since windows xp doesnt have trim support and if i get something like a kingspec ssd for my x40 that doesnt support trim either, if i use the program eraser does that do basically what windows 7 + a trim enabled ssd would do but instead manually? is it that simple?

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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#2 Post by edik » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:43 pm

I think so.

I use a Crucial M4 SSD 64GB in an UltraBay on a T42p.

Ubuntu 11.04 has no trim support but I have a trim utility program that simply creates a huge file on the free space and then deletes it.

I run it once a week.

I guess it is that simple.

Regards.

2018: T550/16/IPS 3K Touch/72Wh
2007-2018: T450, T520/i7-2760QM/8GB/320GB, WSXGA+, X200s, T500, A31p, A30p, T42p, X60s, X32, X31
Gone but not forgotten 1998-2006: 2006 T43p 2668-H2G (2GB/60), T22 2648-8EG (128/20) 2005 X40, X31 2004 T30 SXGA+, 600X, 2003 770 P233+DVD Card, 760XD 1998 760XL+104MB

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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#3 Post by sjthinkpader » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:49 pm

Eraser works in place of TRIM. But Kingspec had its share of problems.
T60p 2623-DDU/UXGA IPS/ATI V5200
T60 2623-DCU/SXGA+ IPS/ATI X1400
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Neil
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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#4 Post by Neil » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:56 pm

Good to know. Thanks for posting this, guys. I've been trying to remember what I had read here on the forum several months ago about this, but just could not remember. None of the tools I have on hand have worked...but I'm going to give this Eraser a try.
Collection = T430 - T500 - R400 - X300 - T61 (14" WXGA+) - R61 (15" SXGA+) - X40 - T43p - T43 - T42p - A30P

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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#5 Post by sjthinkpader » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:26 pm

You have to set write data pattern to all "11111" since new flash start with all "11111"s. Newer version of Eraser doesn't allow user specified pattern anymore. You have to find an older version. I'm using version 5.86.1.

Incidentally Window7 doesn't do TRIM per se. It issues command to the SSD that it is free and SSD can commence TRIM operation. So the SSD itself has to support TRIM.
T60p 2623-DDU/UXGA IPS/ATI V5200
T60 2623-DCU/SXGA+ IPS/ATI X1400
T43p 2668-H8U/UXGA IPS/ATI V3200
R50p 1832-NU1/UXGA IPS/ATI FireGL T2
X61t 7762-B6U dual touch IPS/64GB SSD
X32 2673-BU6/32GB SSD
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kaitanium
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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#6 Post by kaitanium » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:46 am

excellent info! thanks guys.
im going to take my gamble with a kingspec unless i can find a suitable other brand which currently i have found none

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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#7 Post by whalepirot » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:13 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:You have to set write data pattern to all "11111" since new flash start with all "11111"s. Newer version of Eraser doesn't allow user specified pattern anymore. You have to find an older version. I'm using version 5.86.1.

Incidentally Window7 doesn't do TRIM per se. It issues command to the SSD that it is free and SSD can commence TRIM operation. So the SSD itself has to support TRIM.
I d/l a newer version and from my understanding, it is a middling alternative to TRIM. I do know it takes a LONG time to run.

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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#8 Post by sjthinkpader » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:58 pm

whalepirot wrote:... I d/l a newer version and from my understanding, it is a middling alternative to TRIM. I do know it takes a LONG time to run.
This type of "erase" doesn't do anything unless the final data on the SSD are made to be all "11111". If you cannot specify "1" data pattern, basically the program does nothing for you.

This is because "1" to "0" is a write, "0" to "1" on the other hand requires a much slower erase operation for NAND flash. So in order to get back to original factory state or performance, the data in free space needs to return to "1".
T60p 2623-DDU/UXGA IPS/ATI V5200
T60 2623-DCU/SXGA+ IPS/ATI X1400
T43p 2668-H8U/UXGA IPS/ATI V3200
R50p 1832-NU1/UXGA IPS/ATI FireGL T2
X61t 7762-B6U dual touch IPS/64GB SSD
X32 2673-BU6/32GB SSD
755CDV 9545-GBK Transmissive Projection LCD

kaitanium
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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#9 Post by kaitanium » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:34 pm

can anyone help me with using eraser? i just set up a new erasing preference and set byte 1 to all 11111111s, do i need to set up byte 2 or 3?

when i click run it gives me a warning that im about to delete all data on the selected drive, will this wipe my windows and everything? how do it get it so that it only trims my ssd basically? thanks!

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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#10 Post by Neil » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:11 pm

@ sjthinkpadder, after reading your suggestions about using an older version of Ersaer that can be set to write all "11111", I did just that, and it seemed to work great.

However, I have since installed the enhanced write filter for Windows embedded on my X40, and while the performance increase was tremendous (boot time is now ~45sec, and shut-down even faster, where it could take 10min to start and 5min to shut-down before), Eraser no longer works.

With EWF, virtual memory is eliminated, and only RAM is used. I have 1.5GB RAM in my X40, but when trying to use Eraser, about 15% through the process RAM usage reaches 90% and the system crashes.

Is this behavior to be expected?

Do I even need to be trying to use the TRIM feature of Eraser if I'm using EWF?
Collection = T430 - T500 - R400 - X300 - T61 (14" WXGA+) - R61 (15" SXGA+) - X40 - T43p - T43 - T42p - A30P

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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#11 Post by twistero » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:37 pm

Neil wrote:@ sjthinkpadder, after reading your suggestions about using an older version of Ersaer that can be set to write all "11111", I did just that, and it seemed to work great.

However, I have since installed the enhanced write filter for Windows embedded on my X40, and while the performance increase was tremendous (boot time is now ~45sec, and shut-down even faster, where it could take 10min to start and 5min to shut-down before), Eraser no longer works.

With EWF, virtual memory is eliminated, and only RAM is used. I have 1.5GB RAM in my X40, but when trying to use Eraser, about 15% through the process RAM usage reaches 90% and the system crashes.

Is this behavior to be expected?

Do I even need to be trying to use the TRIM feature of Eraser if I'm using EWF?
The idea of EWF is that you don't write to the hard drive anymore. EWF intercepts all attempted reads and writes to the hard drive. Writes are redirected to a RAM overlay, so nothing gets actually written to the hard drive. It also handles reads so that applications have no idea there's a separate overlay.

There are 2 direct consequences in your use case: 1. all changes to a partition protected by EWF will be lost after shutdown, since these changes reside in the RAM overlay. You need to "commit" these changes manually to preserve them.
2. If you try to write to empty space on your hard drive using eraser, then all those writes are directed to the RAM overlay, therefore a) it does not "clean up" said empty space and b) you run out of memory very quickly leading to a system crash.

So no, if you use EWF, there's no need to use eraser.
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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#12 Post by Neil » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:43 pm

Thanks so much for the input..

So, if I want to "save" anything (documents, etc.) I have to run the save command manually? Or is that just changes to system files?

But, if I wanted to do something like run Eraser to clean up the drive, I could disable the RAM overlay from the command line, then run Eraser, re-enable the overlay, commit and save. Is that right? Or, am I still off?
Collection = T430 - T500 - R400 - X300 - T61 (14" WXGA+) - R61 (15" SXGA+) - X40 - T43p - T43 - T42p - A30P

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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#13 Post by twistero » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:56 pm

Neil wrote: So, if I want to "save" anything (documents, etc.) I have to run the save command manually? Or is that just changes to system files?
Yes. To save anything to a protected partition, you'll have to "commit" manually. This include system and user files. Of course, you can save files to a different, unprotected partition just fine.
Neil wrote:But, if I wanted to do something like run Eraser to clean up the drive, I could disable the RAM overlay from the command line, then run Eraser, re-enable the overlay, commit and save. Is that right? Or, am I still off?
Not quite. It seems that options like enable, disable and commit happens at shutdown / next boot. So, from an enabled state, you have to:
1. "-commitanddisable"
2. Reboot. From this boot, the partition is unprotected.
3. Run eraser.
4. "-enable"
5. Reboot. From this boot, the partition is protected again.

But anyways I don't see the point of using eraser, since the disk is only written to during commits, i.e. the shutdown process after running a "-commit" command. Doing manual TRIM with eraser may speed up this process, but it doesn't speed up general usage.
X60 tablet 6363-P3U, 3GB ram, 128GB SanDisk Extreme SSD, SXGA+ screen, Intel 6300
T61 Frankenpad in 15 inch T60 body, UXGA LED-lit AFFS LCD, T9300, 6GB RAM, NVidia NVS140m, Intel 6205, 128GB Crucial M4 SSD, 1TB HGST HDD + eBay caddy in Ultrabay
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Re: win xp + eraser = pseudo ssd trim?

#14 Post by Neil » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:08 pm

Oh! OK...it's starting to make some sense now. I've only been using EMF for a few hours now. I did wonder earlier today why a text file I had saved was gone after a reboot. Now I know.

I already have a SD card that I use for data storage, so I just need to make sure I'm saving everything there instead of drive C. I think this is going to work out just fine.
Collection = T430 - T500 - R400 - X300 - T61 (14" WXGA+) - R61 (15" SXGA+) - X40 - T43p - T43 - T42p - A30P

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