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HDD clicking on X41T - cache problem on the drive?

X2/X3/X4x series specific matters only
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andi25at
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#121 Post by andi25at » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:07 am

Yes I agree with you. I had installed windows xp before and the head parking problem didn't bother me then, because it occured not that often.
But since linux with reiserfs accesses the disk approximately every seven seconds it became a big problem.
I'm sorry, but I don't know how to change the disk writing interval in windows. I even don't know if this is possible.

andreas

louise
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:35 pm

Sent X40 back for screen repair - came back no clicks

#122 Post by louise » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:29 pm

I recently purchased an x40 with a 40gig drive (DK13FA-40B) from one of the ebay dealers. It was a refurb or an L, or whatever. Nevertheless, for reasons I don't quite understand, it stillhad one year left on the IBM warranty.

The screen had two small areas on the upper left where the color wasn't full - as if someone had pushed their finger too hard into the screen.

IBM checked, it was under warranty and this was a known defect. They sent a box and returned the computer within two days!

So I now have a different screen and it looks perfect.

All the data on my hard drive is as it was, and I have no reason to think they changed drives.

But the clicking is gone. I hear normal (low level) seek noise and perhaps an occasional click - but it's minor, infrequent, and at a much lower decible level. I've no idea how this apparent miracle occurred.

The repair action report says:

Part Description:
LCD Cable
LCD Assembly
Misc parts
Bios/Embedded Controller updates prescribed on IBM support page were performed on your machine to ensure reliability and performance efficiency.

HD tune says gives a burst rate of 58.8 and an access time of 20.5 - average transfer is 15.9

Quick error scan showed no damage

Any thoughts?

Louise

Chrispy
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#123 Post by Chrispy » Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:47 pm

I just received my X41 Tablet and I also get the clicking sound. I ran the HD test mentioned earlier and it shows I have 0 cache. Should I call IBM about this?
Thinkpad X60 12" XGA / 1.66 GHz Core 2 Duo / 1.5 GB DDR2 RAM / 80 GB 5,400 RPM HDD / Win XP Pro SP2

jokerunm
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#124 Post by jokerunm » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:33 pm

The cache on the tablets is not being reported correctly, it doesn't mean that the cache is not working correctly.

qchaser
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Click Conclusion

#125 Post by qchaser » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:54 pm

I've told this before but:

My clickings disappered when I uninstalled rescue & recovery software and did a clean install.

Q
Nothing but quality

tsservo
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Location: Sydney, Australia

#126 Post by tsservo » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:26 pm

You're lucky then. I did a clean install and didn't put Rescue & Restore back on and I still have the clicking.

K0LO
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#127 Post by K0LO » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:16 am

Me too.

The drive is totally silent when running Linux; clicks like mad when running Windows. The clicking noise is caused when the head is parked.

I don't know whether it's the Windows SATA power management driver or the IBM Active Protection System driver that causes the frequent head parking, but it's definitely been programmed to deliberately park the head often, and probably as a damage-avoidance technique. But the clicky noise drives me insane!! Can't someone design a drive that can park its head silently?

Prince
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Theory

#128 Post by Prince » Mon May 08, 2006 5:52 am

I got a T41 that originally came with a Travelstar 5K80 40Gb Hitachi, then I upgrade it to HITACHI 80GB Travelstar 5K80 HTS548080M9AT00 5400 rpm ATA100 (8Mb cache),both have ticking problem, it seems to me that they starts ticking when hdd is not accessed so frequently. I carried out a research, here is what I understood:

1) Ticking will not damage the drive.
2) It ticks when head parks.
3) Its not connected with the hdd cache.
4) Parking the head frequently make our data more secure on a laptop.

and here what I didn't understand:
1) let's say parking the head every 3-6 sec. is good when I'm in the car, why it does it when the laptop is on my desk (laptop has active protection and sense it when laptop is experiencing small shocks)???
-my theory says: because it makes the laptop more reliable when it parks the head frequently since it doesn't reduce the life time and performance. and the reliability is more important than ticking. So they decided to make the hdd park frequently. That’s why problem with ticks are more noticeable with table X41s, as a table pc they will experience much more shocks and require more head parking. If this theory is true, then they can make the Thinkpads change their parking policy according to the environment which will be a software upgrade. Of course if they care that ticks are annoying thinkpad users and in future use only hdds that don’t tick when they park.

What do you think about this theory?
Life is beautiful when you know how to look at it :)

T41 2373-3HG, RAM upgraded to 1.5 GB, HDD upgraded to 80 GB.

emmzee
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#129 Post by emmzee » Mon May 08, 2006 11:58 am

Hi everyone, I do not own a ThinkPad, but I recently bought a LG T1 which also uses the Hitachi C4K60 HD. I also get the clicking sounds ... well, I'd describe them more like "plunking" sounds but anyways ...

I used Hitachi's live chat feature earlier today to talk with one of their reps:

emmzee: Hi! I have a Hitachi Travelstar C4K60 in my LG T1 notebook. I was wondering if there is any danger in turning Advanced Power Management off using Hitachi's Feature Tool?
emmzee: ie, chance of data loss/corruption etc
Chris: There is no danger in turning that function off, but you may ill need to let the drive spin down occasionally to stay cool.

I downloaded, burned & ran Hitachi's "Feature Tool" to try to turn off Advanced Power Management (which it shows as "Enabled") but unfortunately the software will not allow me to change that setting. So it looks like the plunking will stay for now ...

I also tried running Notebook Hardware Control (formerly "Centrino Hardware Control") and played with the Advanced Power Settings, but the only options are 1, 128, 192 & 254 ... none of which stop the plunking since there's no "OFF" option.

Its not a big issue but its irritating since the rest of this laptop is so quiet ... whats the point of having quiet fans, hd etc when it makes a plunking noise every 5-10 seconds? :evil:

BillMorrow
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#130 Post by BillMorrow » Tue May 09, 2006 1:54 pm

this "ticking" noise from hard drives has been around for a long long time..

it seems that this afflicts various notebooks without any explanation..

for instance i had this happen on a new thinkpad 600E some years ago..

and on thinkpads at various (rare) times since then..

now we have someone with a non-thinkpad notebook complaining about this clicking..

this suggests to me it is most likely either a controller issue or a HDD issue..

if the HDD is parking the heads every few seconds that sure sounds counter-intuitive to fast data throughput if the heads are spending their time parked on those little ramps and far away from the data areas..

there have been many many theories as to the source of this noise..
i don't recall many of them..

all i CAN say is it should not be happening and if i had a machine HDD combination that WAS doing this now i would swap the drive to see if the noise stays with the drive or laptop..

happy computing guys.. :?
Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
Sysop - forum.thinkpads.com

*
She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~

Riddil
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#131 Post by Riddil » Fri May 12, 2006 10:44 pm

There's a firmware update that's been released to fix this.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62282

Grey Area
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#132 Post by Grey Area » Sat May 13, 2006 7:27 am

I flashed my X41 with that update several days ago, but the HD behaviour appears to have remained the same. Are you sure the new firmware is supposed to change anything regarding the parking/sounds? I was not able to find any information on what it does, other than being new. :)

K0LO
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#133 Post by K0LO » Sat May 13, 2006 8:09 am

The release notes state that the update is for PATA drives. The X41T uses a SATA drive and is not in the supported systems list.

Grey Area
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#134 Post by Grey Area » Sat May 13, 2006 8:26 am

As far as I know, the tablet X41 and the non-tablet version share the same weird disk configuration - a PATA-disk, a SATA-controller and a PATA/SATA-bridge inbetween.

Björn

K0LO
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#135 Post by K0LO » Sat May 13, 2006 8:44 am

I stand corrected; it is a PATA drive. But still the X41T is not on the list of supported systems for the firmware upgrade.

Riddil
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#136 Post by Riddil » Mon May 15, 2006 9:41 pm

eeentaresting... yes you're right, I didn't even notice it wasn't on the list. *shrug* The tablet uses the exact same HDD as the X40 / X41 though. So no risk, no worries. Just a documentation problem.

IgGass
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#137 Post by IgGass » Tue May 16, 2006 11:58 am

Hi!
Sorry to ask such a dumb question, but how did you manage to install that update you are talking about? It is written that it should be installed from bootable CD. Also, it is written that the update does contain new firmware for TC4260xxG9AT00.
I've got no ultrabay or even usb cd-rom drive, so I use dvd on my second pc via network.

Grey Area
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#138 Post by Grey Area » Tue May 16, 2006 12:40 pm

Hmm, not sure, I simply used the multiburner in my ultrabase, so not much help there. Given that these hard drives use the same IDE connector as 2.5" drives, I wonder if it would be possible to place the HD in another computer that has an optical drive, just for the update?

On the other hand, I have just taken a look at the CD created by burning the iso. Its main update program (fw.exe) can be run in a DOS-box from Windows, so you could try to execute it over the network. But I have no idea if it will actually flash your hard drive that way - I suppose there is a reason why they specified a bootable CD...

IgGass
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#139 Post by IgGass » Tue May 16, 2006 2:31 pm

Well, they explicitly tell not to run any of the executables provided with the update, as it will ruin the hard disk. I also don't feel bold enough to fiddle with the innards of the laptop :-)
It's quite strange that they don't mention any alternative way to install the update, given that X41 doesn't contain built-in optical drive.
Actually, this is what they say in the update's annotation:
The hard drive firmware update utility bootable CD does not support USB optical disc drives, PCMCIA/CardBUS optical disc drives, optical disc drives in a docking station bay, or any other drives other than the optical disc drive in the ThinkPad UltraBay. Other drives will not be updated correctly by this firmware update utility.
Do you have any idea if ultrabay for T4x models supports X41 as well?

yashichi
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#140 Post by yashichi » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:16 am

Hello,

I have install the firmware but in notebook hardware control or drive fit from IBM, Smart status do not display the specs.

I want to set the acoustic of the HDD.

Is it normal?

defiant
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#141 Post by defiant » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:25 pm

FYI for those who dont know how to install the update:

So I was bored today and decided to try and install this on my tablet.

Here is how I got it installed:

1. Download firmware ISO and extract the contents to a USB key(using Winrar or whatever)
2. boot up with floppy disk(using USB floppy drive) to DOS(I used my trusty Win98 DOS custom bootdisk). Make sure the USB key is plugged in too.
3. Go to C:\, which will be the USBkey and run fw.exe

The program will load and detect the harddisk. Follow instructions to install firmware.

I didnt try booting from the USB key itself but I imagine it would work fine.

I probably wont be able to test the results until next week when Im at school. I'll post back and let you know if I notice a difference. If you install this firmware, do the same :)

krajicek
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#142 Post by krajicek » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:44 pm

hi,

i was also trying to find out what's the cause of this clicking and here's what i've found on fujitsu website:

Q: When I turn my computer on, I hear a rattling sound from the disk drive at various times when there should be no drive activity. What is this?

A: This could also be the operating system performing background tasks such as cache updating, disk diagnostics etc...

Also if the drive is idle it will automatically move the heads periodically to prevent lubricant migration.

Old drives required thermal recalibration but it is unnecessary for current hard disk drives with self compensating embedded servo.

Thermal calibration compensates for mechanical expansion due to temperature rise inside the PC cabinet. The rattling sound heard is the predefined routine taking place.

This process is automatically interupted when a command is received from the host resuming once the command is complete. The maximum time therefore that the host will ever wait for the drive to respond is 100 milliseconds.

kr.

mbtoloczko
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#143 Post by mbtoloczko » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:16 pm

I found that the clicking sound went away on my X40 when I disabled the active HD protection system.

nikemen
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nice thread

#144 Post by nikemen » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:38 am

So, this seems to still be an issue. I just picked up a new X41, 60gb drive, which makes this clicking sound. Really annoying, having used TPs for years.

I'll read the rest of the thread, and run some drive tests. If this continues, does IBM/Levonvo seem to be replacing the drives?

My mouse keys also feel a bit mushy, not like on my T42, and T43

nikemen
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firmward

#145 Post by nikemen » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:08 pm

Does anyone have access to this firmware update, I am only able to get it to go 4.4mb, and then it pukes. Have tried three differant computers now, no go.

nikemen
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Still unable

#146 Post by nikemen » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:05 pm

Well, there seems to be something wrong with the lenovo ISO of this firmware update?

can anyone download it, or has it? I would love to install it and see if it fixes this clicking problem.

nikemen
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anyone?

#147 Post by nikemen » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:31 pm

Is anyone able to download this file, to fix the harddrive clicking? I have been trying now for two+ weeks to get it to download, no go.

yongke
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#148 Post by yongke » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:02 pm

Hello everyone, just to let yall know that my tablet had stopped clicking !!!!! Try installing the new driver update that had just became available. Hurray!!! :D :D :D :D

nikemen
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was this

#149 Post by nikemen » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:04 pm

was this from the HD download, or another update?
I still have the clicking, and STILL cannot download the HD FW update

nikemen
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was it

#150 Post by nikemen » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:36 pm

yongke wrote:Hello everyone, just to let yall know that my tablet had stopped clicking !!!!! Try installing the new driver update that had just became available. Hurray!!! :D :D :D :D
was that the HD AOLO update


Version: A0L0
Release Date: 2007/01/24

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