X31 3D performance

[edthink]

I plan to buy a used thinkpad, and am leaning heavily towards X31, which seems perfect in all aspects, witht he only exception of the GPU.

So how horrible is the 6yr+ old 16MB Mobility Radeon? I know it probably won't ever run Aero, nor the newest games.

But does it have *some* useful 3D support? e.g. Can it run those 3D aquarium screen savers smoothly? How about Zoo Tycoon 2?

Could owners of X31 please enlighten me on this? Thanks!

Ed

[tomh009]

Hey Ed, nice to see you again.

I can't speak for Aero (though you are right that it won't run) or any fancy games. Aquarium screensavers run just fine, and Age of Empires-type games run well as well. Oh yeah, Sudoku is OK, too!

I'm sure some people here have more experience with games on an X31 though ...

[edthink]

Thanks again Tom. This is very assuring. From the other thread I see that you think this ATI is probably even more capable than the Intel 915. That should be enough.

Cheers,

Ed

[Terrahawk]

I have an R40 with the 16MB Mobility Radeon. I have played a few older games games from around the early 2000s, such as Need for Speed III and IV. They play okay and it even gets what I call a semi-usable score in 3DMark 2000. I expect it will be poor for feature-packed modern games but for light 3D use it ought to be fine.

And yes, it definitely won't run Aero since it's not even DirectX-8 compliant, let alone DirectX 9.

[dizzyspell]

I play old skool Quake 3 on an X31 (not with the trackpoint, mind) and it runs good enuff. (I know it's an old game, but still.)

[edthink]

Thanks guys.

This may be a bit off topic now, but could you enlighten me a bit more on the directX matter? Is it true that if program X is written with directX version Y, then will it not work at all if the video card is not version Y compliant? or will it still work, just sluggishly?

I assume the versions are backward compatible though, so it won't hurt if a later version is installed that the video card is not compliant with -- it would just not use some of the functions. Is this correct?

I did notice that quite a number of programs, not limited to 3-D games, are bundled with DirectX-8 or 9 (e.g. Cyberlink Power Cinema, a DVD/TV player, comes with D9 as part of installation package). So what's up there?

Ed

[tomh009]

I play old skool Quake 3 on an X31 (not with the trackpoint, mind) and it runs good enuff. (I know it's an old game, but still.)

Old skool? You call that old skool? I have Battlezone, Galaga and Centipede on my X31! (MAME is where it's at for classic arcade games ...)

[tomh009]

This may be a bit off topic now, but could you enlighten me a bit more on the directX matter? Is it true that if program X is written with directX version Y, then will it not work at all if the video card is not version Y compliant? or will it still work, just sluggishly?

If a game requires DirectX 27 (as an example), a video card that only supports 26 or less will not run that game at all.

[Terrahawk]

Thanks guys.

This may be a bit off topic now, but could you enlighten me a bit more on the directX matter? Is it true that if program X is written with directX version Y, then will it not work at all if the video card is not version Y compliant? or will it still work, just sluggishly?

There are two levels of so-called "compatibility" - will it work, and will it work with all the bells and whistles enabled.

A video card/chipset is classed as DirectX <n> compatible if DirectX <n> will work with it. The vast majority of video cards/chipsets are compatible with versions of DirectX from 5 onwards.

A video card/chipset is classed as DirectX <n> compliant if it supports all the features of that particular version of DirectX.

For example, I have a nVidia Riva TNT video card. It is from the era of DirectX 6. However, DirectX 8 will work happily with it and I get 3D performance as good as the chipset can deliver. I know this because on the Riva TNT, despite being DirectX 6 compliant, will complete the 3DMark 2001 demo which requires DirectX 8. However, if you run the benchmark, you will find that certain tests are skipped due to the lack of hardware support. DirectX 8 supports more features than the card can handle, yet it will work with that card. Thus, the Riva TNT is DirectX 8 compatible but not DirectX 8 compliant.

For interests sake, here is a sort of list of guidelines of what subsequent versions of DirectX provided over the previous versions, with some examples of that class of hardware:

DirectX 5/6 - proper hardware 3D acceleration support with bilinear/trilinear/anisotropic tecture filtering (nVidia Riva TNT/TNT2, ATI Rage, 3DFx Voodoo 2, etc).
DirectX 7 - Hardware transform and lighting support (nVidia GeForce/Geforce2 and ATI Radeon)
DirectX 8- Pixel/Vertex Shader Model 1.1/1.4, environment bump mapping (nVidia Geforce 3/Geforce4, ATI Radeon 8500)
DirectX 9 - Pixel/Vertex Shader Model 2.0/3.0, high dynamic range lighting, anti-aliased textures (nVidia Geforce FX/Geforce 6xxx/7xxx, ATI Radeon 9700, X800 and onwards)

You can use DirectX 7 class hardware (e.g. Geforce 2) with DirectX 9 games as long as the game does not require a feature specific to DirectX 9. An example of this is Need for Speed Underground, which works on anything from Geforce 2 onwards but requires DirectX 9 to run.

The only game I have that does not work at all on the ATI Mobility Radeon is Lego Star Wars, which requires hardware with Pixel Shader 1.1 or better (DirectX 8 class hardware) and DirectX 9.

I expect that the Mobility Radeon (which is similar in specification to the Radeon VE) is really DirectX 6 class hardware that masquerades as DirectX 7 hardware since the Radeon's "Charisma" transform and lighting engine is not present. What that means in performance terms, is that most games from from 2000 to 2003 will work sluggishly (compared to the Radeon 7500 found on a T4x Thinkpad) and games from 2004 onwards may or may not work depending on what hardware feature set is required.

[edthink]

Thanks a bunch, Geoff. Excellent tutorial.

I'll just play Sudoku

Ed

[bujie]

Terrahawk is right.
As for the performance of X31, I have a 1.6GHz CPU and I play right now NFS Underground 2, with low quality on video, and it runs smooth . Also I can say about NFS Most Wanted. It is about CPU speed here, cause if U force the CPU to run at 600MHz (example) it will run like frames. but at 1.6GHz works fine. The ATI is doing its best! I am pleased.

[DNMonty]

I plan to buy a used thinkpad, and am leaning heavily towards X31, which seems perfect in all aspects, witht he only exception of the GPU.

So how horrible is the 6yr+ old 16MB Mobility Radeon? I know it probably won't ever run Aero, nor the newest games.

But does it have *some* useful 3D support? e.g. Can it run those 3D aquarium screen savers smoothly? How about Zoo Tycoon 2?

Could owners of X31 please enlighten me on this? Thanks!

Ed

What driver did you use for Vista for this to be in question? I have it installed on mine and no drivers I have found seem to be recognized by Vista

[fschreiber]

Hi,

I play 3D Shooters from time to time on my X31. From my experience, I would say that games that are 5 years or older are playable on the X31. I have played Half-Life, Counterstrike, Day of Defeat, Tactical Ops and the like. They give you frame rates of 30-40 fps. Newer generation games run usually too slow to have fun with them.

One advice: if the game allows selection of the graphics mode, OpenGL is usually faster with the ATI driver of the X31 than DirectX.

Regards,
Frank