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Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

X2/X3/X4x series specific matters only
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albertr
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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1021 Post by albertr » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:16 am

Dan, thanks! That was really helpful. Do you happen to remember what was your drive's original F/W version (it's printed on drive's label)?

I can see a couple of ebay auctions for these drives nowadays, i.e.:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261051013002?ss ... 1438.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-128GB-1 ... 4604c37664

One is HP-branded F/W VBM1AH1Q, and the other one is unknown since picture is not clear and the seller doesn't reply on emails...

Thanks,
-albertr

houlster
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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1022 Post by houlster » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:46 pm

Looks like my firmware was VBM1EL1Q. It has a Lenovo partno on it. Found this pic. Mine looks just like this, but is revision 1002:

Image

I would probably stick with the Lenovo branded one. I know for sure it works, but the others very likely will as well. Maybe google for firmware updates for whatever you're looking at to get a warm fuzzy that it won't be an issue.

--Dan

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1023 Post by albertr » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:09 pm

Dan, thanks! Your help is much appreciated. I'm torn between getting this or try Dell-branded Samsung 470/PM810 -series drive which has a small 1.8" PCB inside a larger 2.5" case (P/N MZ-7PA/MZ-5PA). I have a 470 in my other laptop and it was running great so far and it has TRIM supported by factory firmware already (no F/W tinkering required).

http://www.storagereview.com/samsung_47 ... 5pa256hmdr

-albertr

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1024 Post by houlster » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:25 am

albertr wrote:Dan, thanks! Your help is much appreciated. I'm torn between getting this or try Dell-branded Samsung 470/PM810 -series drive which has a small 1.8" PCB inside a larger 2.5" case (P/N MZ-7PA/MZ-5PA). I have a 470 in my other laptop and it was running great so far and it has TRIM supported by factory firmware already (no F/W tinkering required).

http://www.storagereview.com/samsung_47 ... 5pa256hmdr
I'd go ahead and use that one then. If you know it's a 1.8" board & supports trim there's no reason really not to use it.

Edit: Actually, there is the 3.3v vs 5v thing to consider. The x41 and its PATA connector are for 3.3v drives. Most 2.5" drives including this one you're looking at are 5.5v. The SATA power connector though has different 3.3v & 5v pins. If the drive will run on 3.3v, you're set. If not, you'll have to find 5v somewhere on the mobo for it. Probably not hard to find something, but I dunno. There might even be a 5v pin in the PATA connector somewhere.

--Dan

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1025 Post by albertr » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:18 pm

Have received the drive today. As was noted before, there's a 1.8" PCB inside Samsung 470/PM810 drive case, which is about the same size as 1.8" PATA drivers, here's the pictures:

Image

Here's the size comparison to 1.8" PATA drive (SSD is on top, PATA is bottom):

Image

There're plenty of new Samsung 470/PM810 SSD drives available on Ebay. I got mine for $90 shipped here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290682803602?ss ... 1439.l2649

It's has a Dell-branded firmware AXM08D1Q, so Samsung Magician will not work and I will not be surprised if Dell will never release a F/W updates for this drive. The drive's F/W AXM08D1Q apparently already has TRIM support enabled. I was able to see it's recognized as such under Linux, but haven't seen how automated garbage collection works. I hope that it works as advertised, but cannot verify it at the moment...

Also, the datasheet mentioned that there's an activity LED indicator signal line available on SATA pin 11 on these drives:
"The signal provides for activity indication is a low-voltage low-current driver intended for efficient integration into present and future IC manufacturing processes. The signal is NOT suitable for directly driving an LED and must be buffered using a circuit external to the drive before driving an LED."
Dan is absolutely right - this drive doesn't have +3.3V power lines on its SATA connector, only +5V lines. Needs +5V to power up.

-albertr

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1026 Post by albertr » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:00 pm

Always knew that dremel can be quite handy... :mrgreen:

Image

Image

Image

-albertr

houlster
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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1027 Post by houlster » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:35 pm

Wow, you really went to town on that chip eh? :lol: Not that mine looked much better. To do it again, I'd probably go the same way, but just take extra care around those corner pins needed to solder to so that the pads don't get destroyed. One of mine was pretty messed up and it took a few tries to get a good connection.

Done yet?

--Dan

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1028 Post by albertr » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:54 pm

houlster wrote:Done yet?
Not quite yet. The drive gets recognized by laptop's BIOS, so I assume that the data lines are connected correctly, but I was not able to get it recognized when I boot up Linux from the CD-ROM. It looks more line power/grounding issue. Currently the drive is powered from USB +5V, and I think it was not a good idea. I need to find a reliable +5V source inside X41 tablet.... Any ideas?

Image


-albertr

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1029 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:06 am

You have been way too impulsive/destructive!
These motherboards have several layers in them. The wiring does not go just on the top and the bottom!
Your amateurish work has also ground away some of the intermediate layers and their wiring, causing way more damage than just annihilating an innocent SATA-PATA bridge chip.
I take those off with a heatgun in only a few minutes.
I suggest you start looking for another motherboard.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (the Real Black Stuff). And pigs CAN fly!

albertr
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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1030 Post by albertr » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:53 pm

RealBlackStuff,

I'm not quite sure what's your point... I can't care less about any destroyed traces to the bridge chip since I never planned to resolder it back. As far as everything else goes, I can boot Linux and run fine on this motherboard. Wouldn't it be sufficient proof of functionality for you?

-albertr

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1031 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:32 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote: ... also ground away some of the intermediate layers and their wiring...
I don't require proof from anybody.
And I couldn't care less if your motherboards works or not. I only gave a pointer. Ignore it if you like.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (the Real Black Stuff). And pigs CAN fly!

rssb
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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1032 Post by rssb » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:47 am

Is there a way to upgrade a Samsung 128GB MMCQE28G8MUP-0VAL1 with firmware VBM0DL1Q to any firmware which supports TRIM.

FRU # 41W0519

bbq
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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1033 Post by bbq » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:29 pm

For those of us who are less adventurous, this simple adapter for mSATA drives should do the trick:

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=16819695910

They seem to cost only a tiny bit more than the 2.5" SATA flavor:

http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs. ... T256M4SSD3

http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs. ... T256M4SSD2

That seller even offered both 3.3V as well as 5V versions so theoretically any older ThinkPads should be able to take those mSATA drives if BIOS were able to recognize them. Eventually they should be available @ eBay or AliExpress and then placing an order will be much easier.

Finally I will have sweet SSD upgrades for my X31 and X41 Tablet.

AGoodSolution
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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1034 Post by AGoodSolution » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:46 am

bbq wrote:For those of us who are less adventurous, this simple adapter for mSATA drives should do the trick:

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=16819695910

They seem to cost only a tiny bit more than the 2.5" SATA flavor:

http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs. ... T256M4SSD3

http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs. ... T256M4SSD2

That seller even offered both 3.3V as well as 5V versions so theoretically any older ThinkPads should be able to take those mSATA drives if BIOS were able to recognize them. Eventually they should be available @ eBay or AliExpress and then placing an order will be much easier.

Finally I will have sweet SSD upgrades for my X31 and X41 Tablet.
Thanks for uploading this, you're my new friend.

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1035 Post by whalepirot » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:08 pm

bbq wrote:Finally I will have sweet SSD upgrades for my X31 and X41 Tablet.

"Will have". I await positive results and will applaud your efforts. Sadly, promises have delivered more than reality, of late.

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1036 Post by kaitanium » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:46 am


albertr
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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1037 Post by albertr » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:06 pm

albertr wrote:
Not quite yet. The drive gets recognized by laptop's BIOS, so I assume that the data lines are connected correctly, but I was not able to get it recognized when I boot up Linux from the CD-ROM. It looks more line power/grounding issue. Currently the drive is powered from USB +5V, and I think it was not a good idea. I need to find a reliable +5V source inside X41 tablet.... Any ideas?
Haven't been here for awhile, just want to give everybody a quick update... My X41t runs beautifully with Samsung 470/PM810 SSD drive. The brief instability problem I had back in July was due to one of my flying leads I soldered to the motherboard came loose. After re-soldering I put a layer of epoxy to cover the solder joints and never had an issue since then.

A couple of things to notice:

1. There's +5VDC available on the X41t motherboard. I'm using +5VDC found on docking station connector.
2. The activity LED doesnt work with Samsung 470/PM810 drive.
3. Samsung 470/PM810 drive needs +5VDC, it won't work on +3.3VDC.
4. TRIM seems to work fine in Linux with the original f/w.

-albertr

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1038 Post by whalepirot » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:32 pm

I appreciate this, greatly, as my CF SSD pursuit is costly and unfruitful. I opened a Samsung 830 SSD to find a 2.5" CB, so that's a dead end, too.

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1039 Post by Thrakath » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:58 am

Hello everybody,
i am also a long term X41t user and went from a 4200HDD over a 64Gb Kingspec now to a Crucial M4 64Gb + mSATA Adapter. One thing that annoys me is that there seems to be a bug in the SATA-IDE Conversion Chip or on the software side. With both SSD i get an almost hanging system under heavy ssd load, like crystalmark. System hangs for 5-6 seconds, HDD LED full bright.
With the Kingspec i always thought this pehnomenom is due to the small cache of this drive, but the crucial has to be safe in that term. One things that helps a lot against that behaviour while doing normal working is disabling windows write cache in the device manager in Win7.
Anyone else observed that behaviour? I also have it after a clean install...Bios is the newest!

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1040 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:56 am

You need to get rid of the SATA-PATA bridge chip.
In your situation you have:

Motherboard -> SATA -> Bridge Chip -> PATA connector -> mSATA converter -> mSATA drive.

After doing the SATA mod you could have:

Motherboard -> SATA -> mSATA connector -> mSATA drive.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (the Real Black Stuff). And pigs CAN fly!

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1041 Post by Raceboy » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:01 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:After doing the SATA mod you could have:

Motherboard -> SATA -> mSATA connector -> mSATA drive.
Which is what I have just done on my X41: took a dead X61 system board with miniPCIe connectors, sawed the piece of PCB with connector and screw mounts and cleaned the piece of components with hot air gun. Then soldered 6 wires (GND, +3.3V, four SATA wires) and connected them to X41.
With the Adata 64GB mSATA drive it works perfectly.


And it is also possible to use mSATA drive on X60/X61 as the southbridge has 2nd SATA pins on the system board as I learned from the schematics. Since on X60/X61 the mSATA pins are not connected on the mPCIe connectors, you can just solder them (from southbride -> mPCIe) and you have booting 2nd SSD.
When I have more time, I will do it.
X61s:L7500,4GB,128GB SSD,IPS
X32s:PM 758 LV CPU mod,2GB,64GB microSATA SSD,COM mod,IPS
701c,240,380,X60s,560X,570E,600/E,T20,T21,T30,TR451,T42p
Past:560/E/Z,600E,R30,T21,T23,T30,T40,TR451,T40p,T41,T41p,T42,T42p,T43,X20,X22,X23,X24,X31,X40,X41,X60/T,X61/s,X201,T60,T60p,T61,T400,T601p

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1042 Post by twistero » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:28 am

Raceboy wrote: And it is also possible to use mSATA drive on X60/X61 as the southbridge has 2nd SATA pins on the system board as I learned from the schematics. Since on X60/X61 the mSATA pins are not connected on the mPCIe connectors, you can just solder them (from southbride -> mPCIe) and you have booting 2nd SSD.
Uh, WWAN slots on X61 actually has PCIe lanes. So you'll have to cut the PCIe traces on a X61 before connecting SATA to them.
Also, are the extra SATA channels actually available (as in easily accessible, instead of being grounded immediately / not connected)?
X60 tablet 6363-P3U, 3GB ram, 128GB SanDisk Extreme SSD, SXGA+ screen, Intel 6300
T61 Frankenpad in 15 inch T60 body, UXGA LED-lit AFFS LCD, T9300, 6GB RAM, NVidia NVS140m, Intel 6205, 128GB Crucial M4 SSD, 1TB HGST HDD + eBay caddy in Ultrabay
701c butterfly, 75MHz 486DX4, 40MB ram, 1GB CF card

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1043 Post by Thrakath » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:09 am

Solved the hanging problem now. When I installed XP for a try, i did not observer any hangs. So whats the big difference between XP and 7? Trim...disabling it in Win7 (disabledelenotify) did the job, no more hangs and nice benches! See here for XP above and Win7 bottom: http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/147566 ... ost1480579

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1044 Post by derick » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:01 am

My bad experience with ssd mod.
I have used SSD Sandisk P4 32gb 2,5 sata hdd.Inside alluminium case is "half" sized ssd.I tried it in my X41t with modified bios(error 2010).SSD was recognized,but installing windows was not possible.I got random errors.Also Xubuntu had errors.First no wifi,then error read disk.HDD regenerator says no bad clusters.Acronics disk server says no disk,GParted in linux repair it,but about a few minutes hdd has 4kb capacity!!! In another
laptop disk was readeable without any problem.In my mods I take 5V from usb socket.Then I tried another point(near docking connector) for 5v.SSD start very hot and now is pernamently damaged.Before it,I look for new firmware.Sandisk utility says no fw for this type.Disc was recognized under winXP after 2-3 minutes via usb adapter,but without SMART and size was 2,1TB!!!Test with classic 2,5 sata 80gb hdd works without problem.Some peoples had also problems with this SSD in tablests and Lenovo products.I have idea about some incompatibility with this SANDISK ssd.
in use: T520, T431s, X230T, x61s (pinmod), x200s, x300 (pinmod), X220T
Past: 380x 600e, 240x, A22m, T20, x30, T30, T40, x41, x41T, T60, T61, T400, T500, R500, x60s, x61, x200T, x201T, T420, T430, X230i, X220i

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1045 Post by Thrakath » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:28 am

Hi derick,

sorry to hear that it´s not working for you. Which Adapter did you actually use? You have to be careful with the Voltage...X41(t) provide 3.3V instead of 5V that the T4x provide. So if you use the wrong adapter, Voltage might be too low or high for your specific SSD.
USB Adapter don´t provide Smart data in many cases...

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1046 Post by derick » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:33 am

Hi
inside X41 was no adapter.Sata was conected to sata pins according mods.(PATA chip was removed etc).
Only 5v was needed.
Last edited by derick on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
in use: T520, T431s, X230T, x61s (pinmod), x200s, x300 (pinmod), X220T
Past: 380x 600e, 240x, A22m, T20, x30, T30, T40, x41, x41T, T60, T61, T400, T500, R500, x60s, x61, x200T, x201T, T420, T430, X230i, X220i

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1047 Post by Thrakath » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:39 am

For the direct SATA mod, i never heard of any incompatibilities. The incomp. arise from the various adapter/bridge combinations that are used in the books.
But now as far as i understand your SSD is broken? I would check the soldering again for 100%. SSDs might not work in an adapter, so if you have the possibilitie check in a "real" PC with SATA. To my experience all these computer parts survive much more than initially expected...

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1048 Post by derick » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:13 am

Pins are OK.Another HDD 80gb boot win without problem,but it is classic SATA 2,5 disc.My Sandisk
is now totally broken (Sandisk SSD P4 32gb,model: SDSA4GH 032G).
http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=267498

I think it was SSD problem itself.Now HDD is not recongnized in another machine(Dell).Some smd components are very hot.Maybe power line problem.Anyway this SSD had a big problems with X41t.

EDIT:
New info from sandisk forum.Its even for X61 not 41.(My dead sandisk was 3gb/s).
"Lenovo x61 bios is limited to SATA 1.5gbps although the chipset supports SATA 3.0gbps
You might want to flash to the hacked bios which enables SATA 3.0gbps"
http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/SanDisk-Ex ... d-p/272005

Some peoples tried SATAll 3GB/s SSDs and they works OK.So maybe only some models have a compactibility problem.
in use: T520, T431s, X230T, x61s (pinmod), x200s, x300 (pinmod), X220T
Past: 380x 600e, 240x, A22m, T20, x30, T30, T40, x41, x41T, T60, T61, T400, T500, R500, x60s, x61, x200T, x201T, T420, T430, X230i, X220i

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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1049 Post by Thrakath » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:49 pm


derick
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Re: Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

#1050 Post by derick » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:38 am

It is fine,but there is no bios for X41t.As for as I understand the speed is cripled to SATA1,but SSD SATA2 disk maybe work in SATA1 mode.Only speed is limited.But in some models has symptoms freezing or hangs the system.
So what is solution?
1.Test another SATA2 SSD?
2.Put back Marvell chip and buy small PATA SSD or CF card?

EDIT:
So,today I put sucessfully Marvel chip back and I will look for any fast CF card.
in use: T520, T431s, X230T, x61s (pinmod), x200s, x300 (pinmod), X220T
Past: 380x 600e, 240x, A22m, T20, x30, T30, T40, x41, x41T, T60, T61, T400, T500, R500, x60s, x61, x200T, x201T, T420, T430, X230i, X220i

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