Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

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creed · #199 Post by **creed** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:37 pm

My addonics adapter and 2 8GB lexar CF cards arrived recently. The install went flawlessly. I've got Bios version 2.06 and didn't need to upgrade. There are no boot up warnings with the CF installed. Maybe this is an X41 issue? The X40 seems a little bit faster but not lightning fast like I was hoping. It was still a cool project to undertake. X40 is extremely quiet now and apps start up faster than before

Enjoy the pics:

aboveliquidice · #200 Post by **aboveliquidice** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:59 pm

LOVE the pics - I want to do this on my Tablet so bad - looks like you are running linux - which one??? Have you considered running XP?

Can you also post a total cost of upgrade?

~above~

DVormann · #201 Post by **DVormann** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:16 pm

creed wrote:There are no boot up warnings with the CF installed. Maybe this is an X41 issue?

Could be X41 BIOS. Could be removeable drive vs fixed disk.

#202 Post by **underclocker** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:20 pm

Those are awesome pictures! Thanks for posting, very helpful.

I will try this or a SSD on my X40. Prices and options for moving from spinning to solid state drives are getting very attractive.

*** This thread should be a STICKY! ***

aboveliquidice · #203 Post by **aboveliquidice** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:12 pm

Current prices:
- 8gb Lexar 300x CF = 159.66 X2 = 319.32
- Addonics dual CF to IDE adapter = 22.99

Total for upgrade (near 7200 HD) = 342.31 (not including shipping)

That is a lot of bank - but it sure is cool.

jargoone · #204 Post by **jargoone** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:05 pm

aboveliquidice wrote:looks like you are running linux - which one???

He's booted to the System Rescue CD: http://www.sysresccd.org/. This is a great little bootable distro for testing and diagnosis, but not general use.

spasticteapot · #205 Post by **spasticteapot** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:49 am

aboveliquidice wrote:Current prices:
- 8gb Lexar 300x CF = 159.66 X2 = 319.32
- Addonics dual CF to IDE adapter = 22.99

Total for upgrade (near 7200 HD) = 342.31 (not including shipping)

That is a lot of bank - but it sure is cool.

I don't need much in the way of performance, so I was thinking of using some somewhat cheaper CompactFlash cards. I'm going to be running a low-frills Linux install more or less entirely from RAM, and I'm not doing much other than surfing the web and writing papers. I don't need much space, either, really.

Assuming I use the Addonics CF adapter( http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_ ... midecf.asp ), I'll have two seperate hard drives: One for CF card A, and one for CF card B.

I don't need much in the way of performance, so I'll likely have two CF cards: A high-speed 133x 2GB card for the OS and programs, and a low speed 4GB card for storing pictures and word documents and music.

Can anyone here reccomend some cheap-but-fast CF cards for this project? I'lll likely use an A-data Speedy 4GB card for the "slow" CF card, and maybe a Lexar Pro 133x for the "fast" card.

EDIT:
I found this guy on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0181220336

$22.50!

Admin edit: Shortened URL to prevent horizontal scrolling

creed · #206 Post by **creed** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:58 am

I used System Rescue CD, installed on a usb key, to boot into linux so I could partition and format the drives. It's a great utility to have, even for Windows users.

But I do use linux as my primary (and only) OS. I use Fedora Core 5 currently. I'd like to upgrade or try out Ubuntu but I'm deployed in Iraq currently and the internet here sucks.

One cool feature of the dual addonics adapter and CF cards is that it would be really easy to plug in a CF card with Windows XP installed on it should I need to get into Windows (gaming perhaps). Or perhaps a different linux distro for testing. When the prices on UDMA CF cards go down, maybe I'll buy more. The upgrade was about $350 (including shipping).

creed · #207 Post by **creed** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:03 am

I forgot to mention that the top CF card in the adapter seems to always be identified as the first hard disk (or HDA). And the second is HDB. I was worried that the cards would compete at boot up like my external USB drives do.

istel · #208 Post by **istel** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:52 am

Excellent work creed, love the pictures!

Mind sharing your boot up time?

Cheers

DVormann · #209 Post by **DVormann** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:23 pm

seneca wrote:This thread contains alot of good info about Compact flash/SSD's and adapters.
If anyone haven't already started, I think I'll begin compiling it all into an article under "X40" in the thinkwiki.

EDIT: And on a side note...How do I make new pages in that wiki?

Enter the URL of the non-existing page. Then you can edit it.

Like: http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/CF_replacement_for_HDD (The name is only a suggestion.)

Someone else start it. I'll contribute.

creed · #210 Post by **creed** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:51 am

I'll post later tonight on the boot up specs. It's definitely faster than before.

And feel free to use the pics here for the wiki if you like

poweragemk · #211 Post by **poweragemk** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:36 am

Anyone tried this with one of these? I didn't see it mentioned, apologies if I missed it.

Transcend TS8GIFD18
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820208063

creed · #212 Post by **creed** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:54 am

My boot up time, from the grub menu to login screen, is about 30 seconds. This is a lot faster than before, which was at least a minute and more if I remember.

istel · #213 Post by **istel** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:24 am

I'm sure the 1.8 ssd from transcend has not been covered.
Maybe you can be the first one to try it, the connector looks good to me.

Creed,

Thanks for the heads up, though nowhere near as Slade's 1 second... Still wondering how it's achieved

seneca · #214 Post by **seneca** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:37 pm

Hey guys, an update...

I've now installed openSUSE 10.3 and I've used it for two days.

Two partitions (one on each of the cards) as raid0 /, 150mb /boot and the rest as dm_crypt/lvm /home.
No data corruption yet

It seems that openSUSE (2.6.22.13-0.3-default) doesn't have the same problem as ubuntu gutsy, but it has one caveat. One harddrive is running pio6....

So my raid0 is worthless when one cf is running pio. The whole system is lagging when I copy files, both to /home and /.

hdparm -I /dev/sdb

sdb:
DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 (?)
Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
Cycle time: no flow control=120ns IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
Enabled Supported:
Write cache
* CFA feature set
* CFA advanced modes: pio5 *pio6
sda:
DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 *udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4
Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
Cycle time: no flow control=120ns IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
Enabled Supported:
Write cache
* CFA feature set
* CFA advanced modes: pio5 *pio6

hdparm -t /dev/sda
/dev/sdb:
Timing buffered disk reads: 10 MB in 3.01 seconds = 3.32 MB/sec
seneca@odysseus:~> sudo /sbin/hdparm -t /dev/sda

/dev/sda:
Timing buffered disk reads: 62 MB in 3.02 seconds = 20.53 MB/sec

Having a drive running udma1 versus pio6 makes a whole lot of difference.

Please post your benchmarks to compare!

DVormann · #215 Post by **DVormann** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:37 pm

poweragemk wrote:Anyone tried this with one of these? I didn't see it mentioned, apologies if I missed it.

Transcend TS8GIFD18
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820208063

It was covered on page two:

DVormann wrote:
XIII wrote:Anybody tried this SSD <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820208063>
Could you please provide feedback? I really want to research more about it before purchasing.
Thanks,
That drive does not exceed mwDMA2 (16.6 MB/s). After reading that I decided not to buy one.

Random write is bound to be bad just like other Transcend products. If you are happy with mwDMA2 and only a single drive in X40 you can try TS8GIFD18. I would not.

With X41 another detail needs to be considered: Most SATA-PATA bridges support UDMA and PIO but not mwDMA. I do not know which bridge is built into X41. So I do not know if X41 supports mwDMA at all. If not the disk has to run in PIO mode.

mazzinia · #216 Post by **mazzinia** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:26 pm

http://www.dcviews.com/press/Delkin-16GB.htm

New toy... supporting UDMA natively, and 20 years of warranty

AvalonXIII · #217 Post by **AvalonXIII** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:21 pm

DVormann wrote:
poweragemk wrote:Anyone tried this with one of these? I didn't see it mentioned, apologies if I missed it.

Transcend TS8GIFD18
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820208063
It was covered on page two:

DVormann wrote:That drive does not exceed mwDMA2 (16.6 MB/s). After reading that I decided not to buy one.
Random write is bound to be bad just like other Transcend products. If you are happy with mwDMA2 and only a single drive in X40 you can try TS8GIFD18. I would not.

With X41 another detail needs to be considered: Most SATA-PATA bridges support UDMA and PIO but not mwDMA. I do not know which bridge is built into X41. So I do not know if X41 supports mwDMA at all. If not the disk has to run in PIO mode.

yeah, I tried that drive as well. It was painfully slow. NOw, I do not know what running in PIO mode means, but when I replace the original HDD with that, it takes over 5 minutes to start up. However, once windows boot, the time it takes to open applications is significantly faster than before. Battery life is the same, but there is no noise. Overall, not worth the money and I returned it

DVormann · #218 Post by **DVormann** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:49 am

mazzinia wrote:http://www.dcviews.com/press/Delkin-16GB.htm

New toy... supporting UDMA natively, and 20 years of warranty

Asked Delkin technical support four weeks ago if the card identifies as 'removeable drive' or 'fixed disk' in true IDE mode. Did not receive an answer.

Just like Microdia: Asking the same question regarding this 32 GB card. Two weeks passed. No answer.

aboveliquidice · #219 Post by **aboveliquidice** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:35 pm

Can this process be used to convert any removable drive to a fixed disk???

link

cchsiao · #220 Post by **cchsiao** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:26 pm

I wanna contribute my own experience with Super Talent's SSD.

I got a Super Talent FHD32GC18M and it doesn't work on my X41t. Not only my X41t cannot see this SSD, my T42p also doesn't see it, no matter where I put it (main HDD bay or ultrabay). I am almost sure that this SSD is not defect since somehow one can see this drive under T60 (but not before login into VISTA). So... no hope on a real SSD on X41/t.

Originally I think even my X41t might not work, it should work fine on my T42p which eats all the IDE HDD. However, it is not the case at all. So... the only possible SDD which might work on X41 will be the PQI one. However, I don't dare to try this again.

xosh · #221 Post by **xosh** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:53 am

Hi, I am testing Delkin 16GB UDMA CF with Addonics CF-to-IDE converter on my Thinkpad X41 Tablet.

Fortunately, I was able to install Windows XP Tablet 2005 without any problem.

(I just formatted the disk NTFS, and installed Windows XP. I was worried about the "removable/fixed" problem - Even though it was shown as a "removable" device, after formatting the disk NTFS, I was able to boot from the CF card.)

The problem I'm having is after the booting, the HDD Read/Write light doesn't go off. I don't know what process is continuously writing (or reading) the disk, but it doesn't stop!

(I waited for more than 20 mins...) and obviously, because of the HDD is continously being accessed, the system performance is terrible!

[I'm not saying Delkin CF is really slow. I'm just saying something is wrong and keep trying to access the HDD.]

I installed Windows XP Tablet edition (Clean install). And turned off the page file (or virtual memory) option, indexing service. I have 1.5GB RAM.

After killing a svchost.exe process (and its child processes), it stopped accessing the HDD. But, it started again as I started the Windows Update process (since I just did the clean install). [After killing the process, the performance was increadible

... but I cannot say it for sure since no programs nor drivers has been set.]

Do you have any ideas what the process is and suggestions on how I should fix it? (Otherwise, I'll just have to try another clean install - which by the way takes few hours - to see what happens with the default option.)

PS. I believe someone questioned what will happen if he/she uses two CF cards to Addonics CF-to-IDE converter on X41 (and X41 Tablet) model. And someone answered it'll only detect the primary CF card.

- Yes, it is true. I tried it, and the secondary CF card is NOT detected.

qviri · #222 Post by **qviri** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:13 am

svchost is an executable used by the operating system to run its "services" (mostly servers, drivers, system functionality, and the like). You can't tell what's causing the hard drive accesses just by seeing svchost.

One thing I would suspect off the top of my head is a Windows back-up process running to provide recovery service. If you installed XP off the IBM restore disks, you could also be seeing the Rescue and Recovery functionality (but I am not sure if that would run under svchost).

If you could follow the information and procedure in this Microsoft KB article and post the results of Tasklist /SVC and Tasklist /FI that involve the instances of svchost it may be easier to tell what's causing the disk accesses.

DVormann · #223 Post by **DVormann** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:07 am

xosh wrote:I was worried about the "removable/fixed" problem - Even though it was shown as a "removable" device, after formatting the disk NTFS, I was able to boot from the CF card.)

That is interesting. In your current setup, does Windows declare the system drive removeable or fixed?

xosh wrote:And turned off the page file (or virtual memory) option, indexing service.

You could turn off the "write last acsess time" NTFS-feature as well. Disabling "most recently used" writes is a good idea, too. I am not saying either of that is your problem.

Write cache for the drive is switched on?

JStock · #224 Post by **JStock** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:05 am

xosh wrote:Hi, I am testing Delkin 16GB UDMA CF with Addonics CF-to-IDE converter on my Thinkpad X41 Tablet.

Fortunately, I was able to install Windows XP Tablet 2005 without any problem. (I just formatted the disk NTFS, and installed Windows XP. I was worried about the "removable/fixed" problem - Even though it was shown as a "removable" device, after formatting the disk NTFS, I was able to boot from the CF card.)

The problem I'm having is after the booting, the HDD Read/Write light doesn't go off. I don't know what process is continuously writing (or reading) the disk, but it doesn't stop! (I waited for more than 20 mins...) and obviously, because of the HDD is continously being accessed, the system performance is terrible! [I'm not saying Delkin CF is really slow. I'm just saying something is wrong and keep trying to access the HDD.]

I installed Windows XP Tablet edition (Clean install). And turned off the page file (or virtual memory) option, indexing service. I have 1.5GB RAM.

After killing a svchost.exe process (and its child processes), it stopped accessing the HDD. But, it started again as I started the Windows Update process (since I just did the clean install). [After killing the process, the performance was increadible ... but I cannot say it for sure since no programs nor drivers has been set.]

Do you have any ideas what the process is and suggestions on how I should fix it? (Otherwise, I'll just have to try another clean install - which by the way takes few hours - to see what happens with the default option.)

PS. I believe someone questioned what will happen if he/she uses two CF cards to Addonics CF-to-IDE converter on X41 (and X41 Tablet) model. And someone answered it'll only detect the primary CF card. - Yes, it is true. I tried it, and the secondary CF card is NOT detected.

I'm happy that you're as far as you got! How did you do the clean Windows XP Tablet install? I am about to start with an install. I have the X41 Tablet Rescue and Recovery disks, but I don't have a working hard drive to pull any files off of. My drive died for the second time and being fed up with the spinning platters, I'm opting for the CF route.

Thanks much!

John

xosh · #225 Post by **xosh** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:48 am

qviri wrote:If you could follow the information and procedure in this Microsoft KB article and post the results of Tasklist /SVC and Tasklist /FI that involve the instances of svchost it may be easier to tell what's causing the disk accesses.

First of all, thank you for you comments. After some investigations, I realized that the problem was in "wuauclt.exe" which is a part of Windows Update. Since I had a clean install (Windows XP Tablet SP2), I had to update the windows. So, I only installed the ethernet / wireless driver and then performed a windows update.

I'm not sure whether this caused a problem or not, but I chose to run the "Microsoft Update" instead of "Windows Update". After the first update (which includes Windows Installer 3.1, and some malicious software removing tools, and genuine advantage something, etc.) and a reboot, this problem started.

I was able to stop the hard read/writing problem by turning off the "Automatic Update" from the service. However, because of that now I cannot get the windows updated. I don't know why these Microsoft update causes so much pain .

Since I didn't any updates other than the first few, I'm thinking about manual update. I'll update it if I found a better way....

Did anyone have similar problem by performing a clean install? Or is it just happening to me? [I've re-installed Windows XP more than 100 times, but this was the first time I had problem with Windows Update... ]

xosh · #226 Post by **xosh** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:56 am

DVormann wrote: In your current setup, does Windows declare the system drive removeable or fixed?

Write cache for the drive is switched on?

I ran "diskpart" to check it.

Initially, I put the disk to a USB 2.5" HDD case with FAT32 format. At that time, the system recognized it as "removable device". However, after formatting the disk NTFS, (and installing it as the primary IDE disk of my X41t,) it is now recognized as "partition" - think it means "fixed device". [Please tell me it's wrong if I'm wrong.]

Then, I'm able to boot from the CF. However, I have to see "2010 Error" whenever I restart the machine. Does anyone know how to make the "2010 Error" go away from X41t? [I have the latest BIOS updates.]

And yes, thanks for your comments, I checked the "write cache" option. But it didn't help that much.

qviri · #227 Post by **qviri** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:07 am

xosh wrote:I was able to stop the hard read/writing problem by turning off the "Automatic Update" from the service. However, because of that now I cannot get the windows updated. I don't know why these Microsoft update causes so much pain . Since I didn't any updates other than the first few, I'm thinking about manual update. I'll update it if I found a better way....

Are you seeing network activity while the hard drive is busy, or alternatively, does the problem not occur when you're not connected to a network? I think one of the settings for automatic updates are to download the updates in the background and then notify the user when they are done. I cannot remember if this is the default setting, though. On a clean install you'd have a lot of updates to download (and store on the hard drive). I don't know if this is the cause, but I can see it being one.

Running Windows/Microsoft Update (*) manually is not a bad solution for now. Maybe try getting your computer up to date with all the updates (heh), then re-enabling the service and see if it still messes with your drive?

(*) Microsoft Update is essentially the same as Windows Update except it also provides updates for some other Microsoft software if you have it installed. Office and Visual Studio are two programs I've seen updated.

DVormann · #228 Post by **DVormann** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 5:27 am

xosh wrote:Initially, I put the disk to a USB 2.5" HDD case with FAT32 format. At that time, the system recognized it as "removable device".

That's normal for USB devices. It has nothing to do with the CF card.

xosh wrote:However, after formatting the disk NTFS, (and installing it as the primary IDE disk of my X41t,) it is now recognized as "partition" - think it means "fixed device".

So the Delkin cards are fixed disk. Good to know.

Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? PICS

Q. Continuous Read/Write?

Re: Q. Continuous Read/Write?

Re: Q. Continuous Read/Write?

Re: Q. Continuous Read/Write?

Re: Q. Continuous Read/Write?

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