Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS*

[mhca]

You may try using "flash2 /u" to force update the BIOS if you're using the diskette or bootable CD version.

First of all I was sleeping and downloaded the X41T bios instead of just plain X41 bios.
But if I try again now, it just tells me inside Windows 7 there is some DeviceIOerror and to reboot and retry.

Is it difficult to make a bootable CD with the bios update from which I can force it to update?
I barely remember how I made the CD for updating the harddrive firmware.

Regards, Martin

[loyukfai]

No, if you ask me. : )

I use ImgBurn to burn ISO these days, there's a portable version BTW.

Use a CD-RW so that you can re-use the disc.

If you don't have an external writer, then you may also make a bootable USB disk using the ISO/floppy.

Cheers.

[sjthinkpader]

...
But if I try again now, it just tells me inside Windows 7 there is some DeviceIOerror and to reboot and retry....

Win7 allowed me to update the BIOS but not the Embedded Controller firmware. So I used an WinXP image on another HDD to make the update then switched back to Win7.

Yes, I keep original OS images on HDDs. HDD at $50 or so, they are not worth the effort to wipe and reload. I just set them aside them for future use.

[mhca]

No, if you ask me. : )

I use ImgBurn to burn ISO these days, there's a portable version BTW.

Use a CD-RW so that you can re-use the disc.

If you don't have an external writer, then you may also make a bootable USB disk using the ISO/floppy.

Cheers.

Hehe.
I wasn't talking about the difficulty of burning a ready ISO-file. I was talking about how difficult it would be to make an ISO file, which would act like a bootable floppy disk and had the bios file and update utility included.

It was quite difficult to make a bootable CD for the HDD firmware update back in time because it didn't want to update unless I used an Ultrabay CD-drive, but in the end I figured it out.

I'll take a look at the CD later today I guess.

Regards, Martin

[loyukfai]

My bad... I thought that Lenovo provided both ISO and floppy-based images BIOS updates.

I guess there are some floppy drive emulators out there.

Or you may take a look at the Windows-based version, and see if it's possible to extract the files from them.

Cheers.

[rikardo+]

I also have a X41 with similar specs to yours. I'm not in a hurry but I also would like to put a Kingspec SSD (is the cheaper option so far here in Europe). Please keep us posted of your results...

Cheers

yes the king spec ssd 32 installation to the x41 was really simple. Eaven i could do it , took something like 3minutes and the bios recognized the new hard drive instantly.
The hard part was the WIN XP installation wich took 6 hours, from a skilful software programmer.
The lenovo site was very helpfull but all the drivers needed installing and eaven no som of the special ibm buttons are not working.

The computer works extremely fast now!!

So iam very happy with my x41with king spec ssd.
Higly recomended.

[mhca]

I am able to downgrade through Windows XP.

Which bios version doesnt give the error 2010 on X41?
Newest version is 2.09. I have downgraded to 2.08. If that is not sufficient I will downgrade once more before putting the KingSpec back in.

Regards, Martin

[weepy]

You need to clean the non-one free space on your card. I use a software called Eraser and make a new data pattern with all "1111". Then do a single pass write to free space and directory. This will bring the speed back to new card state. This is because writing "0" to a field of "111.." is fast and writing "1" to any cell that has "0" requires an erase operation first. Erase operation in NAND flash is very slow.
...

Hi. My understanding of the problem is, that ssd drive has a flag for each page determining if it is in erased state. I doubt, that just by writing bunch of 111s would trigger (each) ssd to realize that it does not need to erase that page on next write. Well.. it could, it could be standardized and it could be much cheaper and XP friendly than the whole TRIM party .

So I tried my luck on my Transcend 16GB 300x CF, random 512K write went down from 14MB/s to 6MB/s in Crystal Disk mark, so I guess it is not "TRIM" capable . What is your brand of CF, sjthinkpader?

[sjthinkpader]

Normally, the card/drive controller will continue to write to blank, clean, free space without erase until all the free space had been used. Then it will begin to reclaim free space by moving valid data then erase the block with dirty free space.

The SSD controller may have a flag to note which block is slated for clean up as you say. But OS before Win7 has no idea about block erase. So it just write down data without regard to the state of the free space. Then the state of the flag may not be used as there would be valid data in all the blocks, until the card/drive is full.

I did run benchmark tests before and after cleaning by writing 1111 data pattern and it does improve write speed.

I am using RiDATA 233x CF cards, Sandisk SLC ZIF SSD and Transcend MLC 2.5 PATA SSD. You can find test data on these devices in the Benchmark thread in this forum.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=30

I never tested the Kingspec SSD as it consistently been more expensive than other options.

[loyukfai]

FWIW, I was told that the KingSpec drives will get a firmware update with TRIM support by end-December. If it's true, then at USD100 for 32GB then I think it could be a good choice.

As a side note, new SSD with JMF612 controllers are rumoured to be available soon.

[mhca]

FWIW, I was told that the KingSpec drives will get a firmware update with TRIM support by end-December. If it's true, then at USD100 for 32GB then I think it could be a good choice.

As a side note, new SSD with JMF612 controllers are rumoured to be available soon.

Should that then be appliable to already bought KingSpec drives or will it only be on newer upcoming revisions of the SSDs?
What is your source? And do you know where to look to stay updated in case a new firmware arrives?

[sjthinkpader]

removed

[sjthinkpader]

I think someone said that they have no plans to update PATA version. TRIM support and controller update will be on SATA versions.

[spoiltbrat]

It would be great if someone who speaks Chinese could get in touch with Kingspec and find out if there is a tool similar to wiper.exe that we can use to restore performance. I emailed them in English but they misunderstood my questions.

[sjthinkpader]

I posted a cleaning method in this thread on Oct. 17th, page 26.

[loyukfai]

"FWIW", I would suggest just taking it with a grain of salt.

Anyway, end-December is just a few weeks away, and NAND prices are expected to further go down (http://www.purchasing.com/article/38973 ... s_fall.php). So I've decided to wait it out.

Even though I could communicate in Chinese, I'm kind of wary of "promises" made by small startups...

[spoiltbrat]

Thanks sjthinkpader, I missed that. I hope it works!

[elee123]

i'm sure mlc nand will continue to get cheaper and faster. unforunately, will there still be affordable pata drives?

i'm waiting to see the runcore issues get resolved with the x40 or else these new a-data cf 533x cards:
http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/SPD/a- ... 118356.jsp.

apparently the previous generation speedy's were pretty terrible.

loyukfai, i was just at the factories in shenzhen, cn. what a crazy place. it is amazing how many computers and parts fly through that place and how many workers are there. it just doesn't seem like those companies with their margins so thin would develop products for a 5 year old laptop.

[loyukfai]

i'm sure mlc nand will continue to get cheaper and faster. unforunately, will there still be affordable pata drives?

Good point. I've been looking for a faster replacement to replace the stock 40GB to go with a Windows 7 install. Initially I intended to get the HS122JC, however, among the 5 or 6 Chinese sellers I contacted, only one of them claimed to have it in stock and the price was not good. Not to mention that the warranty was only provided by the sellers (i.e. I take it as no warranty, because of the risk of seller not honouring it, and the shipping cost).

Now I think I'm going to get an SSD. The KingSpec (32GB) looks like the most economical, but I'm kind of wary of the stuttering issues. I would like to see a newer revision, presumably with the new JMicron controller, but I wonder if that is going to happen. Even if it does happen, how much will it cost...?

The other option is the official Lenovo one. It's about 70-80% more expensive through.

i'm waiting to see the runcore issues get resolved with the x40 or else these new a-data cf 533x cards:
http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/SPD/a- ... 118356.jsp.

apparently the previous generation speedy's were pretty terrible.

What are the RunCore issues...?

loyukfai, i was just at the factories in shenzhen, cn. what a crazy place. it is amazing how many computers and parts fly through that place and how many workers are there. it just doesn't seem like those companies with their margins so thin would develop products for a 5 year old laptop.

OTOH, maybe only such small companies will take the time to develop such niche products. Large companies just won't bother with them at all.

Cheers.

[spoiltbrat]

Now I think I'm going to get an SSD. The KingSpec (32GB) looks like the most economical, but I'm kind of wary of the stuttering issues. I would like to see a newer revision, presumably with the new JMicron controller, but I wonder if that is going to happen. Even if it does happen, how much will it cost...?

The other option is the official Lenovo one. It's about 70-80% more expensive through.

I've got the 32GB Kingspec with Windows 7 running on my X40 and it is running very fast and smooth. There is no sign of any stuttering. My only concern is that after the entire drive has been written to once, it will need to start erasing before writing. That is why we need a reliable and proven way of periodically cleaning the SSD. All SSDs have the same issue, the Lenovo one will encounter the same problem eventually. Even leading SSD companies like OCZ are struggling with this garbage collection issue (I've also got an OCZ Vertex in my desktop PC).

[elee123]

the runcore issue that is known by runcore:
http://forums.tweaktown.com/f78/brand-n ... een-35071/

i guess the issue is not with x41 but only with the x40

[T41Tablet]

Just to clarify, if you put say a Kingspec SSD in the x41 will it boot normally with NO changes to the BIOS?

I can't get into my BIOS as the supervisor password is unknown - I can handle a error message and a beep on startup but I can't change the boot device order. I can press F12 on startup and choose which device though, would that be enough?

Does the SSD come up as the HHD device as that is in my F12 menu at the moment...

[systema]

Two questions before I buy one! (15% CB now @ eBay!)
1. Can I install windows directly onto the KingspecSDD (win7 boot using Pen drive), and how about the Lenovo SSD? Or will I have to clone (easiest way = buy a X4 Dock, or external enclosure for original 40gb HDD?)?
2. Can you disable the beep error (2010 error) from beeping? I know there is a BIOS option to "Continue" rather than "Pause" on the screen with the error, but do I have to live with the loud beep every time I boot (short of yanking out the speaker?)?

Thanks!!

[weepy]

The SSD controller may have a flag to note which block is slated for clean up as you say. But OS before Win7 has no idea about block erase. So it just write down data without regard to the state of the free space. Then the state of the flag may not be used as there would be valid data in all the blocks, until the card/drive is full.

Exactly .

The point is you did TRIM without TRIM. Your OS might know nothing about block erase, but (if chosen right kind or version) it might know about secure delete. It might be configurable same way as the Eraser app is. That means cheap TRIM for everyone without buying new ssd, os... The only difference is in the way of signaling TRIM to the controller. Byte or few bytes for new ATA command vs block of 1s good old write command.

As it struck me, I judged TRIM too soon, because it has lots of advantages, good semantics and underlying technology independence. If it was not implemented now, it would bring expensive changes later on.

Still, I wanted to warn users that not every flash storage device benefits from eraser ones writing trick and maybe initiate a survey to reveal which devices do or do not.

[sjthinkpader]

I have no good idea on how to check effectiveness of writing "1111"s other than running speed test such as Crystal DM on it.

Write "1111"s to force clean up obviously is scratching an itch thru the clothes. Someone may do actual clean up utilities on the hardware level. This may be different from controller to controller. But our PATA SSD drives are like orphans where manufacturers (software and hardware) are working on mainstream SATA drives now.

[sjthinkpader]

Just to clarify, if you put say a Kingspec SSD in the x41 will it boot normally with NO changes to the BIOS?

I can't get into my BIOS as the supervisor password is unknown - I can handle a error message and a beep on startup but I can't change the boot device order. I can press F12 on startup and choose which device though, would that be enough?....

This may be tougher to do cloning as you need the new drive in system HDD slot and boot from old drive tethered via USB or dock. Should be no problem on new OS install.

...Does the SSD come up as the HHD device as that is in my F12 menu at the moment...

Yes, it should show up.

[sjthinkpader]

...2. Can you disable the beep error (2010 error) from beeping? I know there is a BIOS option to "Continue" rather than "Pause" on the screen with the error, but do I have to live with the loud beep every time I boot (short of yanking out the speaker?)?

Thanks!!

Yes, you'll have to live with the beeps.

[systema]

Yes, you'll have to live with the beeps.

Decided on the Lenovo SSD instead. Will I be able to boot from usb (win7) install or will I still have to clone?

TIA

[T41Tablet]

This may be tougher to do cloning as you need the new drive in system HDD slot and boot from old drive tethered via USB or dock. Should be no problem on new OS install.

Thanks.
I decided to go ahead with the Kingspec 32GB fella. Especially since there may be a firmware upgrade to support TRIM in the future. Thanks for all your advice.

I should be OK cloning it as I have the image files on an external USB hard disk, and I have a pendrive with the imaging software (Acronis True Image 2009) which boots up and supports the external drive so I don't see any issues - crossing my fingers! I should be able to pop the ssd in the drive bay and restore using the imaging software...

Can't wait for delivery!

[sjthinkpader]

....Decided on the Lenovo SSD instead. Will I be able to boot from usb (win7) install or will I still have to clone?

TIA

Win7 is pretty smart and will pickup most drivers. So fresh install is almost as easy as cloning. Most of the ThinkVantage utilities are not needed, i.e. Access Connection, Power Manager and Presentation Director. The Lenovo SSD should not cause the beep at boot time.