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X Series / T Series : What serie is better built ?

X2/X3/X4x series specific matters only
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WarMachine
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X Series / T Series : What serie is better built ?

#1 Post by WarMachine » Thu May 17, 2007 1:28 pm

Hello,

I would like to buy an X31 before the end of the year. I would like to know what is the build quality of this laptop.

I own a 600E (unbeatable in term of build quality), and a T23.

The T23 is flexible (not a lot, but there really is a difference between it and the 600).

Is the X31 more flexible than the T23, or the quality is better (ie between the T23 and the 600) ?

I doubt it's better than the 600... :D

I'll read all I can find about this laptop, but could you tell me what are the common problems on this machine, and, on the other hand, what you love that you don't find on othe products ?

Any feedback appreciated ! ;)

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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Re: X Series / T Series : What serie is better built ?

#2 Post by mpcook » Thu May 17, 2007 1:33 pm

WarMachine wrote:Hello,

I would like to buy an X31 before the end of the year. I would like to know what is the build quality of this laptop.

I own a 600E (unbeatable in term of build quality), and a T23.

The T23 is flexible (not a lot, but there really is a difference between it and the 600).

Is the X31 more flexible than the T23, or the quality is better (ie between the T23 and the 600) ?

I doubt it's better than the 600... :D

I'll read all I can find about this laptop, but could you tell me what are the common problems on this machine, and, on the other hand, what you love that you don't find on othe products ?

Any feedback appreciated ! ;)

W.
I have owned several 600's, now 4 T23's, and 4 X3*'s. I would say that the X3* series is closer to the 600 than it is to the T23 in build quality and solid feel. Once you get used to the slightly reconfigured keyboard, it is IMHO better feel than the T23. Of course I really liked my TP 500 but ytou don't see those around anymore. :)

Mike
Current: 2 x W520 ET, 2 x X220 i7, T420, X230 i5, T420s, MacbookPro, Dell Venue 11 Pro, Dell XPS 8930, X1 Yoga 3GEN
Past: IBM5150-8088 500 600E 600X T20 T21 5xT23 X30 3xX31 X32 T40 T42 3xT43 T43p SL510 T60p X60T X60s T61 2xT400 T410si T400s T500-3.06GHz X200 X201 X220i5 X220i7 2xT420s

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#3 Post by WarMachine » Thu May 17, 2007 1:42 pm

Thx for your answer ! :)

Happy to see that I was thinking right ! :)

What do you mean by "Once you get used to the slightly reconfigured keyboard" ?

I know it's not the same size than 600s and Ts, but are there other differences ?

I already owned a Subnotebook, a Dell L400, and the size of the keyboard was not an issue IMO. The feel was very different compared to the Thinkpad, but it remained comfortable.

Note too that I'm french, and I'll have an AZERTY machine, I know that the keys are not exactly the same on QWERTY laptops... Especially with the horizontal "Enter" key (I have an horizontal "Enter" key on my 701CS, and I don't like it, that's true. But when I look at AZERTY X31 pics, the layout of the keyboard is not different from our others subnotebooks... ;)

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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#4 Post by pianowizard » Thu May 17, 2007 1:43 pm

In general, the X series feels more solid than the T series simply because the X series is smaller and lighter. It's harder to prevent larger and heavier laptops from flexing.
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#5 Post by mpcook » Thu May 17, 2007 2:05 pm

WarMachine wrote:Thx for your answer ! :)

Happy to see that I was thinking right ! :)

What do you mean by "Once you get used to the slightly reconfigured keyboard" ?

W.
The backspace key is "half-sized" and a couple of other keys are in slightly different positions. But I love the keyboard, so I have no complaints. I was a T21 user when I went to the X31, and I thought the X31 had a similar solid feel. Then recently, I have been "collecting" T23's, mainly for my wife, but when I use them, I now notice the difference, the X31 is more solid. Maybe the T21 had a better feel than the T23, but since I had a span of years between use, I can't really say. I have owned some other ultralight laptops over the past 15 years, (HP, Dell, Compaq, DEC) and I find the X31 to have the best keyboard across all of them.

Mike
Current: 2 x W520 ET, 2 x X220 i7, T420, X230 i5, T420s, MacbookPro, Dell Venue 11 Pro, Dell XPS 8930, X1 Yoga 3GEN
Past: IBM5150-8088 500 600E 600X T20 T21 5xT23 X30 3xX31 X32 T40 T42 3xT43 T43p SL510 T60p X60T X60s T61 2xT400 T410si T400s T500-3.06GHz X200 X201 X220i5 X220i7 2xT420s

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#6 Post by mpcook » Thu May 17, 2007 2:07 pm

pianowizard wrote:In general, the X series feels more solid than the T series simply because the X series is smaller and lighter. It's harder to prevent larger and heavier laptops from flexing.
I think you are right, being smaller, it is easier to keep it from flexing. Although all of the T23's I have also have a bit of spongy feel to the keyboard, which maybe has less to do with flex, I can't say.

Mike
Current: 2 x W520 ET, 2 x X220 i7, T420, X230 i5, T420s, MacbookPro, Dell Venue 11 Pro, Dell XPS 8930, X1 Yoga 3GEN
Past: IBM5150-8088 500 600E 600X T20 T21 5xT23 X30 3xX31 X32 T40 T42 3xT43 T43p SL510 T60p X60T X60s T61 2xT400 T410si T400s T500-3.06GHz X200 X201 X220i5 X220i7 2xT420s

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#7 Post by billp117 » Thu May 17, 2007 5:03 pm

I miss my 701C...but it cannot hold a candle to the performance of the X3+ units.

The T23 is rock solid and reliable. The flex never caused a problem for me. The keyboard is excellent.

But for overall enjoyment...go for the X series.
Billp117, Kirkland, WA

T410-SSD, X200, X100e, 2-T61, T60, 3-T43, T43p, TR451, X41t, X21, 701c

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#8 Post by WarMachine » Fri May 18, 2007 12:21 am

Hehe, sure that the 701 is a terrible machine, very solid perhaps even more than the 600, but not really useable for today needs (as always, that depend on what you do with your machines, of course).

I've a 701CS too, and I totally agree with you.

I'm sure I'll be very happy with an X31... When I'll have the bucks, I'll purchase one ! :)
could you tell me what are the common problems on this machine, and, on the other hand, what you love that you don't find on othe products ?
More informations ? :)

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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#9 Post by mpcook » Fri May 18, 2007 2:50 am

WarMachine wrote:I'm sure I'll be very happy with an X31... When I'll have the bucks, I'll purchase one ! :)
could you tell me what are the common problems on this machine, and, on the other hand, what you love that you don't find on othe products ?
More informations ? :)

W.
X31 runs hot, other than that, I have absolutely no complaints. BTW, I will putting an extra X31 up for sale shortly if you are interested.

Mike
Current: 2 x W520 ET, 2 x X220 i7, T420, X230 i5, T420s, MacbookPro, Dell Venue 11 Pro, Dell XPS 8930, X1 Yoga 3GEN
Past: IBM5150-8088 500 600E 600X T20 T21 5xT23 X30 3xX31 X32 T40 T42 3xT43 T43p SL510 T60p X60T X60s T61 2xT400 T410si T400s T500-3.06GHz X200 X201 X220i5 X220i7 2xT420s

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#10 Post by WarMachine » Fri May 18, 2007 5:12 am

mpcook wrote:
X31 runs hot, other than that, I have absolutely no complaints. BTW, I will putting an extra X31 up for sale shortly if you are interested.

Mike
Thx ! :)

Does all the laptop becomes hot, or just the bottom, or other parts ? Does it generate stability problems when the computer is used during long times ?

I will probably not be interested, as I live in France, and as I prefer to have an AZERTY Keyboard. And I'm not really confident about the postal services (and if I used UPS or FedEx, I bet it would be rather expensive...)

Plus I don't have the money for the moment... And I suppose you don't want to give me your machine, right ? :D

But thank you.

:)

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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#11 Post by mazzinia » Fri May 18, 2007 5:26 am

About the hotness, maybe I can add my word :P

Mainly the bottom (the top part is negligible), but the amount depends on the usage.
With batteries, with the ac adapter, max performance, etc.

Never got stability problems because of it, and the fan does its job nicely (even if sometimes can be a little annoying).

Not related with this but I've a friend that has an Acer centrino with stereo sound (same "age"). This x31 beats that one even with the single speaker... (movies)
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#12 Post by mpcook » Fri May 18, 2007 6:37 am

mazzinia wrote:About the hotness, maybe I can add my word :P

Mainly the bottom (the top part is negligible), but the amount depends on the usage.
With batteries, with the ac adapter, max performance, etc.

Never got stability problems because of it, and the fan does its job nicely (even if sometimes can be a little annoying).

Not related with this but I've a friend that has an Acer centrino with stereo sound (same "age"). This x31 beats that one even with the single speaker... (movies)
I agree 100% -- hot but does not cause problems (I've had 4 X3* series).
Current: 2 x W520 ET, 2 x X220 i7, T420, X230 i5, T420s, MacbookPro, Dell Venue 11 Pro, Dell XPS 8930, X1 Yoga 3GEN
Past: IBM5150-8088 500 600E 600X T20 T21 5xT23 X30 3xX31 X32 T40 T42 3xT43 T43p SL510 T60p X60T X60s T61 2xT400 T410si T400s T500-3.06GHz X200 X201 X220i5 X220i7 2xT420s

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#13 Post by shalliday » Fri May 18, 2007 10:17 am

I also agree 100%. Currently own three X31 thinkpads and have never had an issue with either from heat much less anything else. The build quality is excellent. As good as it gets IMO. Great form factor and where it comes with USB II, Pentium M processor, a few easy upgrades including a 7200 rpm harddrive, 2 gb of memory and a wireless G card can really improve performance and extend the useful life of an X31. Oh, did I mention all three of my X31's came with the NMB Taiwan made keyboard. I don't know if all X31's have this keyboard but in my experience, its the best thinkpad keyboard ever made. The X31 is truly one great laptop computer!
T500 T9900@3.06GHz | Win7 64 | 8Gb | 300Gb SSD | 15.4” WSXGA+ | 802.11bgn | BT | Blueray
T60p T7600@2.33GHz | Win7 64 | 4Gb | 120Gb SSD | 15” UXGA | V5250 | 802.11bgn | BT
V570 i5-2410M@2.3GHz | 15.6" | Win 7 64 | 6Gb | 640Gb 5400 | 802.11bgn
X31 1.6GHz | WinXP | 2Gb | 100Gb 7200 | 802.11bg

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#14 Post by WarMachine » Fri May 18, 2007 10:40 am

Thank you for your feedback.

My good part says : "You must resist, you must resist, you must resist !"
My evil part says : "You can't resist, you can't resist, you can't resist !"

Which part will win ? That's the big question ! :P

:D

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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#15 Post by WarMachine » Fri May 18, 2007 10:46 am

Hummmm, another question.

What's the best price for this machine ?

Is this one interesting ? :

http://laptopservice.fr/p-infos.php?ref=2672CXG&pid=241

I think it's still expensive... Must count a little 500€ with the shipment... :cry:

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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#16 Post by teetee » Fri May 18, 2007 11:38 am

[quote="WarMachine"]Thank you for your feedback.

My good part says : "You must resist, you must resist, you must resist !"
My evil part says : "You can't resist, you can't resist, you can't resist !"

Which part will win ? That's the big question ! :P

:D

W.[/quote]

That's always the problem. I am having the same debate within myself: Buy things that's not required but only because they are inexpensive.
For example.: Today I was reading Ads on craigslist and found that there is this guy selling a set of four used alloy wheels in good condition for $35. My car has steel wheels with paint-peeling wheel covers and therefore I was really struggling to make the decision....

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#17 Post by qviri » Fri May 18, 2007 12:43 pm

WarMachine wrote:What's the best price for this machine ?

Is this one interesting ? :

http://laptopservice.fr/p-infos.php?ref=2672CXG&pid=241

I think it's still expensive... Must count a little 500€ with the shipment... :cry:
Yeah that's a bit pricy by North American standards. I just bought an X31 with similar specs (except a 20 GB drive and no ultrabase) for 280€ before shipping on eBay. Buying one in Canada is a bit pricier than in the U.S. because you either have to pay for international shipping from the U.S. (and duties) or nab one that's actually in the country (which I did).

The other auctions I've been watching (located in the U.S.) went for around 250-270€.

I'm not sure how much more expensive stuff is where you are, but a 1.4 GHz / 512 MB RAM machine over 350€ before shipping sounds pricy to me. However, all the hassles with international shipping, especially from companies as opposed to individuals, may make it worthy to get the laptop in the country or at least within the EU. (Though if someone on this forum was willing to ship to you, it may be worth it just installing a new keyboard after receiving.)

From what I've seen, you could end up paying as much as 80€ extra for a 1.6 or 1.7 GHz CPU. Memory prices are fairly standard (just look how much a memory upgrade would cost you), as are the hard drives - ask about the rotational speed, because 5400 rpm drives are a lot faster than 4200 rpm.
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#18 Post by tomh009 » Fri May 18, 2007 10:47 pm

mazzinia wrote:About the hotness, maybe I can add my word :P

Mainly the bottom (the top part is negligible), but the amount depends on the usage. With batteries, with the ac adapter, max performance, etc.

Never got stability problems because of it, and the fan does its job nicely (even if sometimes can be a little annoying).
With a bit of CPU undervolting and running in max battery mode, my X31 (1.6 GHz, 1.3 GB, 7K100) generally has CPU temps under 40C. Even in adaptive CPU mode, the fan rarely goes on.
X220 (4287-2W5, Windows 8 Pro) / X31 (2672-CXU, XP Pro) / X61s (7668-CTO, Windows 8 Pro)

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#19 Post by WarMachine » Sat May 19, 2007 1:24 am

With a bit of CPU undervolting and running in max battery mode, my X31 (1.6 GHz, 1.3 GB, 7K100) generally has CPU temps under 40C. Even in adaptive CPU mode, the fan rarely goes on.
The BIOS allows you to modify the voltage of the CPU :?:

Not the everyday option in laptops' BIOSes...

:shock:

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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#20 Post by mazzinia » Sat May 19, 2007 4:37 am

No, you need something like NHC (http://www.pbus-167.com/) to undervolt.
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#21 Post by WarMachine » Sat May 19, 2007 5:14 am

OK ! :)

I know NHC. :)

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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#22 Post by tomh009 » Sun May 20, 2007 9:15 am

All the X31s I have tried so far have been happy at 0.764V at the 6x multiplier (which is what max battery mode uses). I have 16x at 1.324V, but the 6x voltage is the one that really matters.
X220 (4287-2W5, Windows 8 Pro) / X31 (2672-CXU, XP Pro) / X61s (7668-CTO, Windows 8 Pro)

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#23 Post by WarMachine » Mon May 21, 2007 8:08 am

Hmmmm, thx for all the informations. I've never used NHC, cause I don't need it, but it doesn't seem difficult.

I'm dying to have this baby in my hands...

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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Vote for x31

#24 Post by BB » Mon May 21, 2007 4:14 pm

Salut, WarMachine!

I, too have a 701C--a lovely machine in its day.

I now have an X31 of my own, and use a T43 at work.

I much prefer the X31. It is light, stable, and does everything I want. It has been very solid. I have taken it across the Atlantic numerous times.

I do recommend adding RAM up to at least 1 gig, and installing a new hard drive. (I went for a 5400rpmd drive, which in my experience is perfectly adequate, though some like the additional speed of a 7200rpm drive.)

When performing very processor intensive tasks it does get warm, but much less than the T43, and the fan, when it comes on at all, is much quieter than the T43. The keyboard on my (AZERTY) X31 is far better, too, despite a marginally smaller size.

In short, unless you want to run Vista or absolutely need an optical drive with you all the time, the X31 is a splendid machine.

bon chance!

BB

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#25 Post by WarMachine » Mon May 21, 2007 5:49 pm

Merci ! :)

I appreciate your contribution.

To be honest, I don't really need the X31. I only want to buy it because I know it's a very nice machine, and I fell in love with it since the first time I saw it, when it was released. :lol: :oops:

Concerning the T43, it's a very sexy machine, but I don't need it, and here, in Europe, it's still expensive. Plus I read, here and there that, yes, it's a noisy machine, and that T42, for example, is better. Noise wasn't one of my priorities, but I must admit that a quiet machine (laptop or desktop PC) is a real pleasure for the ears.

And I definately prefer little machines. Easier to carry. I consider 14.1" screens to be the maximum size for a really portable laptop. :)

And yes, I agree, 701 is a beautiful machine. Little and bulky, very solid, with a nice keyboard, and an awesome look.

Mine is special. Have a look here :

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 873#222873

;)

W.
IBM ThinkPads 701Cs | 755Cs | 560 | 2x 600E | 2x T23 | X20 | X24 | 3x X31 | T41p | T42.
lenovo ThinkPads T60 4/3 | T60 15″ WS | T61 14″ WS | R60 | X60t | X61s | X61t | X301 | T400 | T400s | W500 | X200 | X201 | T410 | 2x X220 | T420 | T420s | T430.

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#26 Post by pianowizard » Mon May 21, 2007 6:14 pm

WarMachine wrote:Concerning the T43, it's a very sexy machine
I owned one T43 and two T23's and the T43 was indeed much better looking than the T23's.
HP Pavilion x2 12-b096ms (12.0" 1920x1280, Core M3-6Y30, 3.14 lb); Microsoft Surface 3 (10.8" 1920x1280, Atom x7-Z8700, 2.00 lb)
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