x31 (2673) lockup problems in win2K

[pellicle]

Folks

my x31 is now starting to give me grief. It is freezing (or locking up) with no warning and no message at this point.

currently using:
win 2000
256MB + 512MB PC-2700 memory
I've so far tried:

- reseating the memory
- swapping them into different slots
- operating with one or the other
- tested with memtest86 for 24 hours (4 or 5 cycles) with no errors.
- updating video and other drivers
- testing with PC-Doctor for windows

this is now my second motherboard

before I pull the thing apart, can the cpu be reseated on this as can be done on (say) the 770ED?

thanks for your information

[mazzinia]

The cpu is soldered and cannot be reseated.

Any data inside the application or system logs?

[pellicle]

The cpu is soldered and cannot be reseated.

Any data inside the application or system logs?

sadly nothing I can find. The system simply 'freezes' with no disk activity no change in fan or hard disk sound

[apteryx]

you might want to try update the X31 firmware and also the wireless adapter drivers.

[pellicle]

you might want to try update the X31 firmware and also the wireless adapter drivers.

Hi

already have latest drivers and there is no internals wireless adaptor on this machine.

I'm seriously considering the motherboard is stuffed on this one, as now it has intermittent issues in testing ram. I took the sticks out and tested one at a time in each slot.

I am paranoid about static, and being an ex-electronics technician from back when CMOS chips were very prone to static ground myself and work on a grounded bench top, a layer of alfoil over the work surface.

I found that sometimes that system would not even allow me to get to the startup screen (pre bios or boot device selection)

also, each time restart, I have to long press the power button and preferably go into BOIS and F-10 to save settings.

does this machine 'shadow' the bios in ram?

thanks

[pellicle]

Hi

subsequent to my previous post on my x31, and taking into account that this is now the second system board I've replaced on this unit, I am wondering if all these machines are faulty?

I'm sitting here typing on my x20 which has been a total work horse for ages. Yet my x31 has failed on me twice now, and that's only in a few years.

The machine was bought new in 2005, but a few months out of warranty it started to give lockups, these got worse to the point where you only had to pick it up and it would bluescreen.

I suspect the main weakness is the amount of flexing that occurs when putting it on and off the base station. So, since I replace the main board I have only (carefully) used the basestation for it 5 or so times (prefering to use a USB DVD).

I read here many issues with these x31's and so before sinking any more money into one, I pose the question

are they all flawed?

thanks

[qviri]

My X31 was made in 2004 and I've had it since last May. It's given me no hardware issues whatsoever. I can't speak for the previous owner(s), but I haven't gone out of my way to be particularly gentle with it. I very rarely use it in a dock, however.

[mpcook]

I have had 3 X31/32's with literally no problems. I had an LCD go bad on an X30 and the keyboard bezel cracked. I still have an X32, and one of the X31's is with my son who I am sure is not gentle with it, takes it on a bus to class every day, and no problems whatsover. To me, these machines are pretty solid and well built and I have not experienced problems.

Mike

[ragefury32]

Hm. I currently own a triplet and use a pair of X31s on a daily basis, one off a dock and one as my travel workhorse, and as I can tell you from my experience, yes, there is a serious weakness on the X31/32 design. It's also a fairly easily remedied one...

Take a look at the raw motherboard on the X31 here:

http://www.aculei.net/~ragefury/Pics/X3 ... rboard.jpg

You would notice that 3 of the most important components on the board, the ATi Radeon video chip, the Intel Odem (i855PM) northbridge and the Pentium-M CPU actually sits on a row directly above the middle of the machine.

The important thing to note:

a) Those 3 chips are at least 400 pins each and is directly soldered on the board

b) There are no large chips directly underneath on the bottom side of the board that acts as a canteliver which can stiffen it from stresses, nor is there much in terms of frame strengthening structures.

http://www.aculei.net/~ragefury/Pics/X3 ... emoved.jpg

In fact, if you look at the board with the relation of the bottom frame, the location of the 3 chips are directly above memory slots, and that memory slot is not exactly the strongest load bearing structures on that machine. (The heat sink between the Radeon and the Odem northbridge does not seem to be an effective loadbearing structure).

c) I actually used to have a real bad habit of holding the machine in one hand, where I form an "L" with my either hands. What I did was either the have my right thumb anchor to the right edge above the CPU air vent (when I am using the left hand), or have my left thumb rest between the Cardbus and the audio ports on the top left (when I need to type off the right), and with either hands, I had the other 4 fingers wrapping under and supporting the middle, in an arch. It's comfortable for me and easier to deal with, especially when I am working out of a cage at a data center where I just had to plug directly into a Cisco switch and get settings punched in ASAP (the server KVM is on the other side). The problem is that 4 lb weight of the Thinkpad is transmitted directly onto the bottom of the Thinkpad frame, and since the frame is not exactly very stiff there, the weight is transmitted directly onto the board where the 1200 combined pins of the GPU/Northbridge/CPU just so happened to be, and since those things tend to run fairly warm (40 Celsius+), these would cause solders on those pins to fail, causing all kinds of problems. Problems like sudden lockups, video issues, and interrmittent failures.

So, what's my fix? Buy the extended battery that clips onto the bottom of the machine (acts as a locking stiffener underneath), put the machine into a protective sleeve (I love the Shoreline 12" Microfiber Full Access sleeves, it's pretty much custom designed for the X3x series), or if you are worried about the weight of the price/weight ofthe "tray" battery, toss a reasonably stiff book underneath it to act as a shock absorber.

I used to average one new motherboard a year on this machine (I also have it covered on IBM CarePacks until 2010), but now that I house it in this fashion the yearly motherboard swap pretty much ceased.

[pellicle]

Goodmorning ragefury32-sama

and what a very interesting post you have contributed. [hatOff]thankyou[/hatOff]

You said: yes, there is a serious weakness on the X31/32 design. It's also a fairly easily remedied one...

which boiled down to:

• Buy the extended battery that clips onto the bottom of the machine (acts as a locking stiffener underneath)
• put the machine into a protective sleeve (I love the Shoreline 12" Microfiber Full Access sleeves,

which in light of what you say seems quite sensible, and consistent with the flexing of the bottom board being critical to the life of the product.

I have a colleague in Japan, whom based on my experiences with thinkpads, started buying them from 2002. The first being a 570X (I was using a 560 at the time which I dragged all round the place and generally loved as well as a 770ED as my 'desktop' mass and multi media machine and also dragged to work and flown to odd places many many times)

she later bought an X31 after watching the "hard yakka" which my x20 went through (and indeed I'm still typing on it now {even if you can't see the letters on the keys anymore}. However her x31 died just after warranty. She (perhaps because of being Japanese) was far more careful with hers than I with mine, the single difference is that she had the ultrabase and took the machine on and off at least daily. It was 'docked' during the day at her office and undocked for eetings and going home. To my observation of her working style she never carried it unless closed, and only used it on a table, desk or ontop of a folder on her lap.

So when you say:

What I did was either the have my right thumb anchor to the right edge above the CPU air vent (when I am using the left hand), or have my left thumb rest between the Cardbus and the audio ports

it makes me think that (as I suspected first time I saw the keyboard bulge out when she docked the thing) board flex and mechanical fatigue on either 'solder joints' or printed circuits must be a major issue on these things. Any machines which were lower in thickness of copper or perhaps close to 'marginal' on wave soldering would be the first to go.

As you point out:

• Those 3 chips are at least 400 pins each and is directly soldered on the board
• There are no large chips directly underneath on the bottom side of the board
  that acts as a canteliver which can stiffen it from stresses, nor is there much
  in terms of frame strengthening structures.

The x20 seems to have some 'ribbing' moulded into the base of the case, which is absent from the x30 and contributes significantly to base strength and rigidity. I suspect that in the CAD designers world when they were pressing to get more into the same thickness package that this went out the window and noone thought about or decided that they could 'live with' the issues.

two questions for you:

• do you see the board flex nearly as much when you mount that
  extended battery as when you dock and undock?
• do you keep that battery on all the time?

so while I've ordered the x31 with 3 year warranty, I am now wondering if I should stick with x2X series? I think that an x24 with a gig of memory should be fine.

alternatively I might just grab an s30 and keep linux or win2K on and then use a desktop for gruntier applicatoins it instead of a 'single machine' solution.

either way thanks so much for your post

[ragefury32]

Um, yes, it does flex less with the Ultrabay battery, and yes, I do keep that battery on at all times (I am a traveling IT administrator so I spend a good deal of my time on the road) and inside my sleeve. The Ultrabay battery also makes it practical to keep the sleeve on at all times, since the battery creates an air intake gap for the cooling fan.

Hm. I do dock, but rarely. After all, when I dock (using the ultadock - I have the Ultrabase X3 but I very barely use it) I'll pull the battery out and then slot it back in. The Shoreline is flexible enough to allow me to pass the Ethernet/power/USB cables in for the dock to be barely used. That way the 31 stays in the sleeve at all times.

Of course, that X31 really is starting to get a little old...too bad the X4/6/200 port placement is not nearly as well thought-out as the '24/31. I can't stick it into a sleeve and just expose the flap in the back to pass cables in.