X series vs netbook

[postdiction]

hi,

love the forum. the pictures part is my fav

anyway, I have around $3-400 for a notebook. I am primarily looking for something with a screen no larger than 12". Smaller is okay but not larger. I have never owned a notebook of that size and was wondering if you all think it would be better to buy a an older X series note book or one of those new net books (ie asus eee, and more specifically MSI Wind) To me some thing like the MSI wind or hp mini-note blurs the line between netbook and small notebook.

My primary concern is price, then screen size to be small, then cpu performance. I don't care about graphics, ram , hard drive, or optical drive.

So what do you guys think would give me better performance in that price range with those screen size limitations?

Also what type of older X series can i expect to get from a reputable dealer for $3-400?

Thanks

Postdiction

[lightweight]

This is a subject I've thought about quite a bit, and currently I'm typing this post on a friend's Eee PC 2GB Surf. I own an x61s, owned an x22, and am awaiting arrival of an x60s from a trusted member of this site. I use my phone throughout the day for work, which requires 24/7 availability and some sort of computer (an ssh terminal). This Eee is appealing to me for several reasons, including the obvious: it is cheap, light, runs Linux (fight the good fight), and perhaps could fill the gap between performance and portability offered to me by a laptop and my phone. I've spent maybe three hours with this thing, and let me tell you what surprised me:

* I can type on this keyboard for around an hour straight without really caring. I have large hands, the same size hands as my 6' 6" coworker who found this thing's keyboard unusable, and I was used to it in about an hour. Again, I've played with this thing for maybe a total of three hours, and I coded in vi with it. The trackpad is ridiculously small, and the buttons even more ridiculously small (much easier to just tap on the trackpad), but with shortcuts I can get by. Also, the scrolling section of the trackpad is nice -- I can scroll with my thumb while resting my fingers on the keyboard.

Still, I am finding myself needing breaks after these hour long bursts.

* Its so super cute. Another friend has used it for a couple days and she was moments away from naming it. It's that cute.

* The interface is nice. The look and feel once windows are opened is a little too Windows for my taste (I use XFCE or fluxbox on my boxes), but the home screen/desktop layout is intuitive and refreshing. It is sort of similar to a Blackberry RIM, except with tabs on top. If Asus was really smart they would have added a Blackberry-esque roller thingy.

* If I lose this thing, I'm not going to cry about it, because a) its cheap and b) the harddrive is so small I cannot help but think about it as a disposable computer. I would never store personal pictures or ssh keys on this thing, for example. I think of this as good design.

* 800x600 really isn't that big of a deal because of the pluses in portability. Of course, newer Eee PCs and UMPCs have better resolution.

* This thing is a bagillion times better than something like the Kindle or any smartphone or similar device for reading text: totally usable.

* Everything is supported in Linux and the thing is just asking to be messed with.

All that said, and knowing your budget is closer to x3 and x4 territory, I'd buy another x22 before this thing. And I'll tell you why:

1) Still cheap, but much less disposable because of the harddrive space available (I used a 120GB 5400RPM drive and did not find noise a problem) and sturdier build. The x2s really are built very very well and have stood the test of time.

2) TRACKPOINT. I know I used "usable" a lot already, but really I mean "usable if you don't count the awesomeness of an NMB keyboard and trackpoint." Every single UMPC is a poor design unless it has a trackpoint: trackpads either take too much space for an ultraportable or are too small.

Also, as said above, I loved my x22's keyboard. In fact, I like it more than my NMB x6 keyboard.

3) x2 and up really strike a good balance performance and battery wise. I used Debian Linux and fluxbox with 256MB of RAM on my x22 and it was my most productive machine because I found myself taking it everywhere and even cloning its keyboard and trackpoint to my desktops at work and home, and it was a 700MHz P3M. Certainly your $3-400 will get you into x3 and maybe even x4 territory, which will only yield better performance.

4) x2 are plenty light. Eee PC is also light. In terms of carrying around, light is light and such small difference doesn't matter, to me at least. Size when closed is similar. For example, I carry my x6 to work each day in a Waterfield sleeve, and it reminds me of carrying a trapper keeper in gradeschool. Walking around tonight with the Eee PC reminded me of carrying a medium sized O'Reilly or similar book. It's not that different.

5) The aesthetic downfall of some x series are the thick bezels. UMPCs also have thick bezels. Even x22 looks less silly. While I'm being shallow, let me also say I think the retro factor of IBM design trumps the color thing of the Eee PC.

6) Battery time. The EeePC's battery time is way too short for such a device. With x2 (and presumably x3 and x4) you get a more productive hour than you would with an EeePC. Overall battery time is basically the same after you step down a P3M, and I think anything under 6 hours battery time (say, a cross country flight) is simply too short. (Though I have not tried to tweak this Eee for battery time.) From what I've read, an x3 or x4 properly configured won't reach 6 hours, but can get you pretty close.

Incidentally, the 6 hour thing is a no brainer for a basic UMPC requirement. Lenovo, if you're planning a UMPC I hope you're reading -- that's the trigger after you get them in your sights with the trackpoint

7) Thinkpads are very serviceable, as in they're well documented, labeled, and easy to dis/reassemble. I am not sure how big of a pro this is, but x22 was the first laptop I actually enjoyed taking apart. It is simply a better machine than the Eee.

UMPCs are slick, though.

[weepy]

I tried typing on an eee and concluded it as unusable for me. Not that i have big hands... but i would not change from my x41t. It has more muscle (sends atom & celeron where they belong), superb keyboard & display, i like the trackpoint more than pad and once I succeed in installing windows tablet pc 2005 on cf, i will also have also great system response associated with flash storage.

Not saying that eee is not cute.. it is. If you want a gadget or if you want it for kids or a gf who has tiny fingers, get eee.

[j-dawg]

Are you using this as your primary computer?

If this will be your only computer, get a real one. I see that you're in Chicago; there's a nice-looking X31 on Craigslist for $325.

On the other hand, if you've got a desktop or a bigger laptop that already crunches the numbers and saves the data, why bother with an X-series? Buy a netbook and save your back a pound or two.

[aceo07]

I too was once tempted by the EEE and other tiny notebooks. Very tempted when they came out with a touchscreen kit for the EEE 900.

... Then I got an X40. I never did try out the EEE 900 though. I am quite happy with my decision, though I need to get new batteries.

You can get X-series 2,3,4 except the tablets for under $400 with the docking station on ebay. You can also get 20% cashback through the microsoft windows live search engine (www.live.com).

Craigslist is also a good place to look for quicker transaction and closer inspection of the product.

[gongo2k1]

i've wanted a little net book since last year when the first eeepcs came out, but i couldn't quite convince myself to pull the trigger.

when i came across this x41 on craigslist for $300, there wasn't any hestitation, i knew that i was getting more storage, faster cpu, a nicer keyboard, and structural durability.

naturally it's not as tiny as an eeepc, but 12" is very comfortable while still being portable. i'm not sure i could use a 9" for extended periods of time, but then again, i've never tried either.

[Puppy]

The only disadvantage of X41 and older is you can not put a Mini PCI Express WWAN card inside.

[fschwep]

A well-spec'd X31 falls well within your budget, is upgradeable and if it's your only computer, will do almost anything you ask of it short of heavyweight graphics or superfast game playing.
One great advantage of the x3 series is that they connect to almost anything (except Bluetooth). You can find an X31 within budget that has wifi, 2 USB 2 ports, sound jacks, PCMCIA slot, CF card slot, modem, 10/100 network, parallel printer port (for all those faithful old Laserjets), external monitor, infrared and firewire. Plus a great keyboard, Centrino CPU, a decent amount of RAM (512 is typical but they can go up to 2 GB), a decent graphics card, good 12-inch screen (1024x768) and sturdy construction. You can run a heavyweight office suite on it, do some modest photo editing (typically Paintshop Pro calibre software, even some raw processing in Adobe Lightroom), run mapping software with a GPS, build websites...
Best of all, the keyboard. You can keep going on those all day long.
I'd take an X31 anytime over an eeePC.

[postdiction]

I have posted on many forums before and never gotten so many high quality responses. Thank-you all for your input.

So here is the deal,
firstly all i really do is surf, word, power point ( no more coding/compiling/developing for me)

The most taxing thing that i do do is watch flash video/download internet video (dont laugh, flash video can be very processor intensive for some reason)

secondly, this will be my primary computer in the sense that its the one that will go every where with me and it is the one that will be turned on first and the one that I will want to use first. However, I have 15 inch MBP with 2 gigs of ram if i need back up. It is just that the MBP is too heavy to easily transport from computer room to tv to bed to class to coffee shop.

thirdly, I am a huge tweaker and have gotten used to extreme multitasking performance. On my MBP, I run XP Pro with all non essential services turned off making my boot around 80mb of ram.

I understand that this little laptop cant match the performance of a MBP but, I would like to get as close to that within 1)my price range and 2) Screen <= 12inches.

Thus,

I belive I will go with a x30 or x40 if I can find one.

What are good reputable sites for finding thinkpad deals? I don't want to go the ebay/craigslist route due to unpredictability/danger

Thank-you all for your responses again.

[dbregman]

Just to chime in here.

i purchased an EEEPC 900 when they first came out (first week) and have to say it is slick.

BUT after two to three weeks, I decided to return it (thanks CostCo) and get an X40 from eBay. Here are some of the reasons

eeePC cons:
- runs very hot
- battery life not great
- keyboard is a little cramped
- display is too small for an everyday laptop

eeePC pluses:
- small
- trackpad is great
- it is an attention getter - maybe that is bad

X40 pluses:
- One of the best keyboards I have every used
- Faster then the 900
- Bigger and better screen
- Better build quality (I have an IBM - not Lenovo one)
- Lots of spares available
- Cheaper - got mine with dock for $335 incl shipping
- Great battery life (I get 5+ with 8cell and also use 4cell with battey below for ligher config)

X40 cons:
- Trackpoint takes some getting used to
- HDD is SLOW - I replaced my with CF cards - much better!
- Slight larger footprint

I am very happy with the switch to the X40 from the eeePC 900.

[j-dawg]

You are going to want an X31 or X32 over an X30, for the USB 2.0 and the Pentium Mobile processor.

This website is a pretty good place to find good deals on used Thinkpads. Try putting up a "WTB" post in the Marketplace forum.

[lightweight]

Here's a size comparison of the Eee PC 2GB Surf and x61s ultralight if anyone's interested. Just cell phone pics:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 822#434822

re sites to purchase from, many of us have found the Marketplace here from a trusted member a safe place to buy. You can cross reference by member in that forum and its feedback threads.

[dbregman]

Here is the IBM x40 vs MSI Wind vs Asus EEE 900 size comparison

http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_compar ... us-EEE-900

[gongo2k1]

i have to say, i'm very pleased with my x41 and very surprised with how small and light it is. i know a lot of people here highly recommend the x31/x32 over the x41, but here are the reasons why i chose the x41 over the x32:

1. the x41 has the intel 915 chipset with the gma 900 and intel 2200bg - all of these have extremely good support in linux and every distro includes drivers for them and they all work right out of the box.
2. size and weight - the x41 is smaller and lighter, and while this doesn't matter to most, i travel 4 days/week for my job, so this is very important to me being that i have to take a company laptop with me as well.
3. ddr2 533 - i didn't want to be stuck with pc2700... pc4200 is cheap and abundant.
4. i don't have any firewire devices, so i don't care that the x41 is missing this. i realize it's a sticking point for some.
5. sd card slot - even though i don't use it very often, i do have a camera, and it uses sd, not cf.

i'm not saying these don't apply to the x31/x32 - in fact, i expect that someone else's list might be the converse of mine, point for point. all i'm saying is that these are the reasons why i chose the x41, and i think it's good to share them because the voices in favor of the x41 over the x32 are relatively few and/or unheard.

[kunfuchopsticks]

I agree, those are very good reasons for choosing X41 over X3 seris. Also, if you need fire wire, just get an PCMIA firewire card!

[mikeh]

Here is the IBM x40 vs MSI Wind vs Asus EEE 900 size comparison

Why compare size? Except you want the screen and keyboard to be bigger.
Surely its the weight that counts. An X40 with the small battery is similar weight to an EeePC 9".
I think mini-laptops are like cars now. A quality used model beats a cheapie new one. But then, if you ask on this forum, you can't expect an unbiased response.

[fasterbybike]

One great advantage of the x3 series is that they connect to almost anything (except Bluetooth).
<snip>I'd take an X31 anytime over an eeePC.

My X32 has bluetooth - it is an option on X31/X32 machines.
And I agree about the quality of the keyboard - it's perfect given the size of the machine.

[fixup]

I had been waiting for a small UMPC like the EEE PC 900 until I bought a X20 from Craigslist. This thing is just too cold and quiet, a real joy for everyday computing. I force it to 500MHz and it does flash, MPEG2, VOIP all smooth. Meanwhile I'm keeping an eye on these new UMPCs for one that's as cold and quiet, to take over my X20 and OQO as a single device solution.

[dstrauss]

No matter how often I upgrade, I always come back to the x40 (that includes both an HP and Sony Vistabeast with more memory, processor, HD, and DVD writer). Now with XP SP3 they are snappier than ever. I think you'll find that the x40/x41 is the best made ultralight notebook you'll ever find, and even with the dock they come up on ebay all the time for $350 - $450.

[lightweight]

A coworker just received an Acer Aspire today, and I must say it is sweet. Full size keyboard and very nice display. Trackpad is a little weaksauce but personally I like that its framed by buttons instead of having the buttons underneath the pad. The finish is gorgeous. Downside is it's badly built -- plastics do not fit perfectly and it appears the battery charger is not smart enough to not charge the LiIon battery when its close to full capacity (~95%), but that will require further investigation to be certain. Just a busy day so far.

But anyway, more cellphone quality pics at the link above, this time by a newly acquired x60s. Here's a direct link to save you the scroll: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 155#438155