X32 Clocking down

[proaudioguy]

I have been doing some tests. Seems my X32 has some issues with running at full clock, 2.0GHz.

I have 2 of the small PSUs, the newer one seems to work fine. When I use the old one everything works fine until I run at high system performance, and put a load on the CPU. At that point it gets hot rapidly and shuts down. If I use the newer small PSU or the larger PSU ( I have several of those too) then it doens't shut down. It just get's really hot and starts clocking down (Speedstep?) to lower the core temp. Seems the FAN cannot keep up with the CPU at full throttle. If this is indeed part of the design then I would say don't buy anything faster than a 1.8 (which I had previously) because they seem to be able to run all day and night at full speed.

I have Arctic Silver on the heatsink and I've had good luck cooling my A31s pretty well.

Perhaps there are some other X32 2.0GHz users out there that could chime in.

I need the CPU to be able to run full throttle for hours at a time. I have software that is scalable based on how much CPU power you have. IOW, if I have to run it at 600MHz, it's not going to give me much performance. My weakest link is the video RAM, but I can live with that as designed. I think the CPU should be able to run full speed without clocking down to lower the heat. I feel like I bought a 2.0GHz machine and it ought to be able to do 2.0GHz indefinitely.

Any thoughts?

[makai]

Well, I don't own an X32, but experience with both my X31s has told me they can run a little warm even at the 1.6ghz they run at. I did have a chance to get a 2ghz X32 but decided against it just because of the heat issue I imagined would occur.

Regardless though, I would think your X32 could run at high speed without shutting down. However if it won't, you could always use NHC to underclock your laptop to say 1.8ghz by using the custom dynamic switching option. Also, you can use the ACPI option to set the fan temps for better heat control.

Sorry not much help since I don't own the same machine as you.

[aaa]

Use NHC, not to lower the speed, but to lower the voltage at 2ghz. That will cool it down significantly.

See here:
http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=70943

[uux]

I recently picked up a 2GHz X32 from a forum member. I have ran it for periods well over 24 hours at full speed without issue. It gets a bit warm, but nothing to complain about. It replaced a 1.4GHz X31, which seems to run even warmer. The fan in the X31 almost never came on, which let the heat build up. The fan in the X32 comes on much more often which seems better for the heat. In fact, I'm using it right now on my lap after leaving it running full throttle all night without any discomfort. The bottom of my X31 would be very hot to the touch if I did the same with it.

I've also used it with both the small (fru: 02k6816) and the larger (fru: 08k8209) power adapters.

I would say from my experience with this X32 that the behavior you are seeing is not normal.

[proaudioguy]

I recently picked up a 2GHz X32 from a forum member. I have ran it for periods well over 24 hours at full speed without issue. It gets a bit warm, but nothing to complain about. It replaced a 1.4GHz X31, which seems to run even warmer. The fan in the X31 almost never came on, which let the heat build up. The fan in the X32 comes on much more often which seems better for the heat. In fact, I'm using it right now on my lap after leaving it running full throttle all night without any discomfort. The bottom of my X31 would be very hot to the touch if I did the same with it.

I've also used it with both the small (fru: 02k6816) and the larger (fru: 08k8209) power adapters.

I would say from my experience with this X32 that the behavior you are seeing is not normal.

This is what I was hoping for. I have the onsight warranty and will not hesitate to use it if need be. I just hate having my babies taken apart by strangers. Any more users out there with opinions on this issue?

Perhaps I'll try to re-seat the heatsink.

[cmarti]

Perhaps I'll try to re-seat the heatsink.

Put also some artic silver on the CPU that will help on conducting the heat from the cpu to the heatsink.

[proaudioguy]

I just got the computer booted back up so I'm typing this as I see the result.

I am giving it my worst after going in and I am initially running 15C cooler than before. The clock is no longer clocking down to reduce heat. The heat rose more gradually, instead of rapidly and has leveled off at 74-75C. I'm also charging the laptop at the same time (granted I'm using the 72 Watt charger). Quick review,...Previously it would shut down using 1 particular charger (older compact unit) but not the other compact unit or the 72watt unit. The potentially faulty charger works fine for normal surfing type stuff. On the other chargers it would run very hot (this just in, it creeped up to 77C and the fan kicked up a notch and it's just sitting there now,...back to your reg sched prog) to about 89C then scale down to 600MHz cool off quickly them up to 1.x (varied) then at times back up to 2.0GHz, but not for more than 5-10 seconds.

(It just hit 78. Perhaps the grease is settling in?)

So what I did was remove the fan and clean everything up. I found the grease was pressed out to the extent that part of the heatsink was tight to the surface of the CPU with little to no grease and the surrounding area still had grease on it. I also found a coupl eof imperfections on the heat sink which are still there but I cannot feel them with my finger. I used some polish, similar to 2200 grit sandpaper, or jewler's rouge and polished the copper heat sink. I then applied the arctic silver a little bit more liberally to the CPU than before, but not too much. (it just hit 79C then dropped right back to 78C then back up to 79C) The current setting is Thinkpad Default and it's running at 2.00GHz full tilt boogey with my industry software and the ripple tank running with 2 different frequencies and in 3D mode (always seems to kill a hot PC).
http://www.falstad.com/ripple/

SO it's sitting at 79C, which if it can live that hot I guess is OK cause it hasn't clocked down in the last 10 minutes.

Any thoughts? Should I replace the fan? Perhaps try the fan from the other X32? It gets really light duty use around the house. Anything I should consider using besides Arctic Silver? Should I polish that copper till it's a mirror (almost there now).

Why won't it run at 50C like my P4m? Hey it just hit 80C which is 5-6 degrees hotter than when I started this post about 15 minutes ago.

This has me wondering if the grease is somehow breaking down or perhaps it's just breaking in. I would expect the heat transfer to get better though, not worse.

OK well even if this goes no further, perhaps it will help someone else. I'll try to update on a regular monthly or yearly basis.

[ajkula66]

Try ThinkPad Fan Control, but older versions (0.25 or 0.33) and I think you might get where you need to be...

[proaudioguy]

Try ThinkPad Fan Control, but older versions (0.25 or 0.33) and I think you might get where you need to be...

I tried 0.33. I set 50C to level 1, 55C-70C to level 7 and left 75 at level 64. This after the computer had run all night (I fell asleep trying to find those versions).

When I stressed the computer this time, it ran up to 75 with the normal max fan sound, but when it passed 75 it jumped up to nearly 5krpm (the 64 setting). The doc seems to indicate this speed may be unsupported by the fan and may cause damage. Even so I let it run. The computer got to around 85-86C then clocked down just enough to drop it then back up to 2.0GHz. Turning off TPFC didn't change anything. Overnight the machine was on adaptive and idling at 600MHz most of the time until this morning when AVG ran for about 5 hours. Now it's nearly back up to the temps that started this thread. Perhaps my Arctic Silver is defective or just can't take this much heat continuously.

EDIT: FYI it's running cooler at 600MHz while just surfing than before. Since I was using AS5 before (from the same tube) I can assume it's from re-seating the heatsink. Is there such a thing as TOO TIGHT for the heatsink screws? There are springs between the screws and the sink so I figured the proper tension was from that and over tightening was just ensuring they wouldn't vibrate loose.

[proaudioguy]

I'm undervolting it with NHC right now. I've never done this before. I've got it down to 1.340 to 1.196 and so far it's dropped about 8-10C. However, what is the performance hit I'm going to take by doing this? Obviously stability is important, but I also need this thing to run as fast as possible. 95% of the time it just clocks down to 600MHz and it's fine there for most work. When I run my "software" it needs to keep up with the demands. If I can only get the thermal connection between the heatsink and the CPU rock solid and dependable I think it all might be fine. I'm currently using the newer compact PSU and it's running fine without any under clocking. The underclocking definitely seems to be related to the core temp.

[NorrisCell]

You shouldn't notice a performance hit at all. The whole idea of undervolting is allowing the CPU to run stably at a given speed with less power. The test NHC performs checks to make sure the CPU can run with the specified voltage. The speed of the processor doesn't change, but you are wasting less voltage making it run at that speed

[proaudioguy]

The jury is out on whether I notice a performance hit but so far I've undervolted 600MHz all the way down and it seems to run fine but a few degrees cooler. Correct me if I'm wrong but that could extend the life of my CPU?
Also I've undervolted 2.0GHz to 1.132 and still no noticeable stability problems. The 30 second stress test takes more like 3 minutes. I've got my software running, and the ripple tank simulation now. The CPU is at 100% and sitting at 70C. That's a HUGE savings of heat. If I could also crank the fan up (noise of the fan is irrelevant) then I might be able to get it down to 60 or 65C without further undervolting. Still I may take it deeper. The voltage at 2.0 is currently below the normal voltage at 1.2GHz.

Is there any reason to change the voltage of the other clocks? The 2 that concern me mainly are 600MHz and 2.0GHz since the computer rarely ever hits any of the others unless it's trying to cool off from too much heat. Should I at least set the lower clocks to the same voltage (not higher) as the 2.0GHz so there isn't a sudden drop in voltage with increase in clock?

BTW I've been aware of NHC for some time. I thought it was for hackers that wanted the most quiet machines (perhaps to be stealthy while hacking). I did not know the performance would not take a hit. Since I needed the most performance I have avoided it. It's a really cool utility.

[makai]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that could extend the life of my CPU?

Yup... along with extended battery life when on batteries.

Is there any reason to change the voltage of the other clocks? The 2 that concern me mainly are 600MHz and 2.0GHz since the computer rarely ever hits any of the others unless it's trying to cool off from too much heat. Should I at least set the lower clocks to the same voltage (not higher) as the 2.0GHz so there isn't a sudden drop in voltage with increase in clock?

The way I do it is to undervolt using the previous step. In other words, undervolt the highest CPU speed by using the next lower voltage in the list. If the next lower voltage is stable, I might try to tweak it more to find a lower voltage than that. The trick is to find what voltage will be stable for all the speeds as simply using the next lower voltage may not work. A little work, but worth the effort.

On all my thinkpads, I undervolt every speed. While it's true that most of the switching only occurs between the lowest and highest speeds, it does sometimes switch to the in-betweens. Any savings I can get for my battery/CPU wear/tear is worth the time in undervolting.

The other thing you need to do is to modify when the fan comes on for given temps of your laptop. Since you're running 2ghz, I expect your temps to be where they are, so using NHC to control the fan is also a good idea.

There isn't an ACPI script for the X3x series (unless someone made one up since I last looked), but you can use the T43p script (I use it on my T41, T42 and also on my X31).

Scroll down the following page and download the "second" link in Johans post, (it's a 20kb zip file) then follow the readme in the zip to apply the script in NHC.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=90

Edited: Forgot to mention the other link in Johan's post...
http://blog.tiensivu.com/aaron/archives ... kpads.html

I haven't had any problems with NHC/ACPI, but if you do, you should be able to find the answer in the body of that post somewhere... it's several pages long.

[proaudioguy]

I've got it working quite well. One of my audio buddies is kind if an expert with computers and digital electronics in general. He's the kind of guy that designs USB devices and then writes the code for them. He feels strongly that undervolting is bad and that my computer is crap if I have to do that. I just want to be sure there is no possibility of damage or likely hood of data corruption. I can deal with a crash or a freeze as long as the files I have open are not corrupted other than losing recent unsaved changes.

I managed to get it to run quite a bit cooler. It seems stable. I also have the fan turned off to 55C then it turns on and gets the high normal speed rather quickly. I have the wide open speed set to 80C but it never get's that hot now. Like I said I just hope this is all in the best interest of high performance and no damage to the computer.

Thanks for you post.