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Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

X20/X21, X30/X31, X40/X41 Series
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sjthinkpader
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Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#1 Post by sjthinkpader » Sat May 16, 2009 7:26 pm

After reading many praises of the X32 on this forum, I went and got one. It is a great machine and I compiled a chart comparing the various X2x, X3x, X4x that I have and my thoughts on how to use them:

Image

Altought they were all built for good portability, due to the component selection, they have very different personalities. Following are my observations and really personal opinion.

X20
This macine by todays's standard is a little too old. With only 378MB of RAM and memory hungry multi-tab browsers, it had to do HDD paging a little too frequently. Otherwise it has a very low power Coppermine Mobile Pentium III CPU with only 7W Thermal Design Power (TDP). But the ATI Rage probably took quite a bit of it back. Subsequently it is not a real low power machine. I don't have any of the later X23, X24 machine to compare.

X30
This is a very low power machine using a Low Voltage Pentium III Tualatin with only 11W TDP. Without a discrete GPU, it is likely the low power champion. With CPU set to lowest performance and a SSD, this machine is virtually silent.

X32
This version came out after the X40 was introduced. It is really a T42 in a small housing. The Pertium M Dothan is not even the Low Voltage version. Just a normal Dothan same as in T42 and R51s. Along with the power hungry 21W TDP CPU is a discrete ATI Radeon GPU. Even set to lower CPU performance, I could not get the fan to stop. So this machine is for people who need serious computational power but want portability. The X31 is similar but with a Banias CPU.

X40
This machine use the Pentium M Banias Low Voltage version. The TDP is only 12W, almost half of the Dotahan in the X32. Because of the single slot DDR design, it can only go up to 1.5GB RAM assuming a 512MB loaded motherboard. It has a low power integrated GPU.

X41
This version use the Low Voltage Pentium M Dothan rated at 10W TDP. Although there is an Ultra Low Voltage version with 5.5W TDP, IBM/Lenovo opt not to use it for some reason. This generation went to DDR2 which increase the maximum RAM size but should be worst in terms of power consumption.

So the low power champions are X30 and X40. The X32 and X41 are built for performance. The X32 is a power hog.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#2 Post by mikeh » Mon May 18, 2009 12:01 am

Thanks - useful comparison. I'd add that the X30 and older have only a slow USB1.1.

It would be nice to have idle power figures. The X40 uses about 12W with the screen on, but low CPU load.
I don't think TDP matters much, unless you are encoding videos on your laptop.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#3 Post by sjthinkpader » Mon May 18, 2009 12:13 am

How do I monitor idle power?
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#4 Post by mikeh » Mon May 18, 2009 1:26 am

sjthinkpader wrote:How do I monitor idle power?
cat /proc/apci/battery/BAT0/state

My 8-cell is down to around 44WHr capacity, leaving me 3hrs real use.

Doesn't IBM provide a windows utility?

or power = battery capacity (mW Hrs) divided by battery life (hrs)

It all about the battery life. Aside from idle/scree-on test, I think the other useful test is playing a video from the hard disk.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#5 Post by sjthinkpader » Mon May 18, 2009 3:43 am

mikeh wrote:...

cat /proc/apci/battery/BAT0/state
...
This is in Windows?

I used Power Manager's info, remaining Watt-Hour and remaining Time and came up with Watts while idle as you suggested. Here is the data in the last column:

Image
T60p 2623-DDU/UXGA IPS/ATI V5200
T60 2623-DCU/SXGA+ IPS/ATI X1400
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#6 Post by fasterbybike » Fri May 22, 2009 1:14 am

sjthinkpader wrote: The X32 is a power hog.
My X32 went very quiet when reading this post :lol:
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#7 Post by mikeh » Fri May 22, 2009 1:53 am

sjthinkpader wrote:
I used Power Manager's info, remaining Watt-Hour and remaining Time and came up with Watts while idle as you suggested.
I don't know how Power-Manager works. That 24W for the X20 looks awfully high.
And does the X41 really use 50% more idle power than the X40?

Testing my X40, it says the battery discharge rate is around 9W with dimmest screen,
and 11.5W brighter. (It refuses to do full brightness on battery.)
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#8 Post by sjthinkpader » Fri May 22, 2009 2:10 am

I normally set the highest brightness allowed in the profile and the lowest CPU performance while on battery. I will retest the X20 power consumption later.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#9 Post by moronoxyd » Fri May 22, 2009 7:26 am

The fan of my X32 is rarly spinning, and 14.4 W power consumption seems quite a lot.
The setup of you're machine is probably not really optimised.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#10 Post by tomh009 » Fri May 22, 2009 8:06 am

sjthinkpader wrote: I used Power Manager's info, remaining Watt-Hour and remaining Time and came up with Watts while idle as you suggested. Here is the data in the last column:

Image
Actually the battery Info screen will show you the current power consumption (as long as you are running on battery).

I'll add that the X31 has the X30's low power consumption ... but still has USB 2.0.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#11 Post by davidspalding » Fri May 22, 2009 2:29 pm

My X32 is quite quiet, but I use TPFANCTRL on it, and also put Power Manager in "Adaptive" or "Quiet" profiles that I use, which rein in the CPU a bit, and also spin down the drive quickly.

I kinda thought it was like my T43 in an X32 case. I have the Dothan (Pentium M) 760 in my T43, and the Dothan 755 in my X32. Performance is comparable, though the 7200rpm drive in the X32 makes it zippy.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#12 Post by sjthinkpader » Fri May 22, 2009 4:02 pm

I think X40/X32 are HAL compatible with T42 and X41/X41ts are HAL compatible with T43.

I had a lot of problems cloning the 32GB CF card in the X40 and finaly gave up and did a clean install of Windows 7 RC on that CF card.

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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#13 Post by sjthinkpader » Fri May 22, 2009 4:11 pm

tomh009 wrote:...
I'll add that the X31 has the X30's low power consumption ... but still has USB 2.0.
I think the X31 is very different from the X30, P-M vs P3, DDR vs SDR, ATI vs intel GPU etc. I don't have a X31 but I would think it is closer to a X32.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#14 Post by tomh009 » Fri May 22, 2009 9:27 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:[I think the X31 is very different from the X30, P-M vs P3, DDR vs SDR, ATI vs intel GPU etc. I don't have a X31 but I would think it is closer to a X32.
You may be right ... though it's the Banias CPU, like the X40. Anyway, I just checked the idle power consumption on our X31 (1.4GHz with 1.3 GB and a 7200 rpm disk), using your method, and it works out to 8.1W (idling, wireless A connected, screen brightness at 3). Actual wattage display fluctuates between 7.35W and 10.02W.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#15 Post by sjthinkpader » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:31 am

I got an 1.133Ghz X24 off eBay and it is even a little faster than my X30. Here is the chart updated with data from this computer.

Image

The old 11b/modem combo card in the X24 was replaced with a more modern intel 2200bg WiFi card. This card was a Dell version and the X24 didn't complaint a bit. Both the IBM/Lenovo driver and AC worked fine.

I applied power control to the Ralink PCMCIA WiFi card in the X20 and the idle power came down quite a bit. The CPU type number was corrected for the X30 also.

Storage devices used in these computers are as following:

X20, Hitachi C4K60 40GB
X24, Hitachi C4K60 40GB
X30, Transcend 32GB MLC SSD
X32, Fujitsu MHV2100AH, 5400RPM, 100GB
X40, RiDATA 233x CF, 32GB (Win7 RC)
X41, Samsung HS122JC, 5400RPM, 120GB

Idle power data were taken with these storage devices. Except for the Transcend and Fujitsu, all the rest are 1.8 inch devices.
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R50p 1832-NU1/UXGA IPS/ATI FireGL T2
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#16 Post by GpsPasSion » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:13 pm

Interesting, although the X31, the ex (?) best laptop in the world should be there too!

Is there a better app to monitor power use than the IBM Battery App, I don't find it updates very regularly.

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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#17 Post by sjthinkpader » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:34 pm

GpsPasSion wrote:Interesting, although the X31, the ex (?) best laptop in the world should be there too!...
Sure, if you send me the Type/Model numbers and the data, I will add it to the table.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#18 Post by tomh009 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:04 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:Sure, if you send me the Type/Model numbers and the data, I will add it to the table.
Here is my X31 ...

X31
2672-CXU
SL6F5
22
1400
600
1024
400 MHz
Pentium M
Banias
130 nm
ATI Mobility Radeon 7000
2 GB maximum
DDR
8.1W (idling, wireless-A connected, screen brightness at 3)
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#19 Post by GpsPasSion » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:17 pm

8.1W, wow !

I can't get below 11W on my 1.4Ghz X31 idling at 600mhz and undervolted. I'm reading from the battery applet, you ?

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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#20 Post by sjthinkpader » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:41 pm

tomh009 wrote:...
8.1W (idling, wireless-A connected, screen brightness at 3)
Thank you, I usually has the LCD as max brightness. What would be the idling power with LCD at full brightness?
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#21 Post by tomh009 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:17 pm

Will check that for you tonight.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#22 Post by tomh009 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:27 pm

GpsPasSion wrote:8.1W, wow !

I can't get below 11W on my 1.4Ghz X31 idling at 600mhz and undervolted. I'm reading from the battery applet, you ?
If I look at the wattage display in the battery applet (not the method sjthinkpadder uses) it fluctuates between 7.35W and 10.02W with brightness set at 3 and wireless-A connected.

Differences? Which wireless card do you have (I have Atheros a/b/g)? Amount of memory (1.3 GB)? Type of hard disk (Hitachi 7K100)? CPU voltage at the minimum?
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#23 Post by GpsPasSion » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:37 pm

- Not sure about the WiFi card, it's a b/g I believe.
- 2Gb
- 0.956v at 600Mhz, don't think it was stable below that.
- 7K100 100Gb

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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#24 Post by tomh009 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:38 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:Thank you, I usually has the LCD as max brightness. What would be the idling power with LCD at full brightness?
Idling, full screen brightness, wireless-A connected. 34.45 Wh and 3:19 remaining, gives me 10.39W.

Actual wattage display fluctuates between 10.71W and 11.82W. (Screen brightness at the minimum drops that into the 8-9W range.)
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#25 Post by tomh009 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:42 pm

GpsPasSion wrote:- Not sure about the WiFi card, it's a b/g I believe.
- 2Gb
- 0.956v at 600Mhz, don't think it was stable below that.
- 7K100 100Gb
The memory is more than mine, that will use a bit more, but the hard disk is identical. You can check ThinkPad Configuration or Device Manager to figure out the wireless.

Now, that voltage ... I was going to look, and I noticed that CHC is not running. And in fact refuses to start for me ... so I have to think that it's running with the standard voltage. But I checked, and it was running at 0.764V (at 6X) before, so your 0.956V seems quite high.
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#26 Post by GpsPasSion » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:56 pm

hum...maybe mine went back to default at some point then...let's see.

edit - yes, I'm seeing 0.78 at 600Mhz in Max battery, I'll turn it down for "performance on demand" too. I use RightMark CPU.

Still bottoms out at 11 W though :-(

And yes, Atheros a/b/g here, in G mode.

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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#27 Post by tomh009 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:38 pm

So that's 11W+ displayed under "wattage", right?

I wonder how much the memory takes ... I'm guessing about 2W per 1 GB stick, but I can't find confirmation at the moment. Would you like to pull out one stick and test what the reading is? :mrgreen:
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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#28 Post by GpsPasSion » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:47 pm

I could, but not tonight, can't say I enjoy rebooting it too often ;-)

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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#29 Post by sjthinkpader » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:43 pm

When not being accessed, DRAM is in self refresh mode, it would be pretty low power. 8 chips would be lower than 16 chips.

I am surprised that you are using 11a. Must be a very old WiFi access point/router? I don't have any 11abg cards in X series. Using either intel 2200bg or Atheros 5004 for lower power. My 11a access point broke a long time ago and range was terrible when it was working.
T60p 2623-DDU/UXGA IPS/ATI V5200
T60 2623-DCU/SXGA+ IPS/ATI X1400
T43p 2668-H8U/UXGA IPS/ATI V3200
R50p 1832-NU1/UXGA IPS/ATI FireGL T2
X61t 7762-B6U dual touch IPS/64GB SSD
X32 2673-BU6/32GB SSD
755CDV 9545-GBK Transmissive Projection LCD

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Re: Selecting a X20, X30, X32, X40, X41 Thinkpads **Pix**

#30 Post by tomh009 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:48 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:I am surprised that you are using 11a. Must be a very old WiFi access point/router? I don't have any 11abg cards in X series. Using either intel 2200bg or Atheros 5004 for lower power. My 11a access point broke a long time ago and range was terrible when it was working.
It's an Orinoco AP-600, about three years old -- but it has 11a since it's really a corporate access point. Me, I like the fact that there is zero interference from my neighbours' networks, from cordless phones and other devices! (And the range is good, no complaints about it.) So while the access point and both ThinkPads support 11g, I have no intention of switching.
X220 (4287-2W5, Windows 8 Pro) / X31 (2672-CXU, XP Pro) / X61s (7668-CTO, Windows 8 Pro)

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