Do I want a X41 Tablet or Non-Tablet? -Many questions inside

[Atreides]

I've been contemplating the purchase of a new laptop for a long time, and finally settled on getting a thinkpad. I first narrowed it down to the X-series for the supposedly fantastic portability. Then I narrowed that list down to the X41 models, as I found them to be right in my price range (sub $200 used on ebay). I'm a student and really just wanted something small and durable I could type/browse on, and this seemed perfect. The decision then came down to, if I want to get the tablet version or not. Both seem to be ~ equal in price and availability on ebay, and thus I could easily get either one. I apologize in advance for all the questions I'm going to ask and how persistent I'm going to be; but being a student I am on a student's budget, and want to be 100% sure what I buy is the right choice.

I primarily want a solid machine, something I hear thinkpads are quite famous for (the X series to a slightly lesser degree), and this has been one of my major concerns with the X41 Tablet. On the regular X41 I can clearly see two solid looking metal hinges holding the screen on, whilst the nature of the tablet allows only for one centered hinge. I know this is not a fair comparison, but I went into my local electronics store just to play with some tablets (had never used them, mostly HP makes in the store), and was appalled at the construction of the hinge. I felt as if I would be able to easily snap it off myself. How strong is the hinge on the X41 tablet? Build quality is of paramount importance for me, and a wobbly hinge would drive me up a wall.

Another thing I noticed looking at pictures of the two models, is that the screens *seem* to be of different sizes. The tablet has a few buttons and whatnot near the screen, which seems to limit the overall real estate on the front. The regular X41 screen on the other hand, seems to fill up all the space. Are the two screens the same size? And if not, does this make one model physically larger than the other?

How solid is the screen locking mechanism on the X41 tablet? It seems to be of a different variety than the regular X41.

This may be a stupid question, but where does the stylus go on the tablet? Does it have a place to rest? If so, does this then increase the overall size of the X41 tablet's body? Does it lock solidly into the body? (I know I'm harping on this build quality thing a lot)

Are there any other differences between the two besides what I've not thought of?

Again, I apologize for the long winded post, I just want to make sure I get this right. I'm not sure how much use I would get out of a tablet (never owned one), but if they are going for the same price as the regular X41 I might as well go for that. I just have had these few worries which have kept me undecided between the two.

[ZaZ]

Do you think you'd use the tablet functions? That I think would be the primary reason to get the tablet. Keep in mind the tablets are heavier that the non-tablets. On the plus side for the tablets it they have a much better screen. I'd just say about the X4x series in general is they use slower 4200RPM hard drives, which have very limited upgrade options. I don't know, maybe you don't care about this. They do make a SSD for it, but it's quite expensive, which kind of defeats the purpose of a $200 notebook. If it were me, I'd be look at a X3x which uses a standard 2.5" drive. You've got either the X31 or X32, though I think the X32 will be tough to get for around $200 today. You'll get a faster Pentium M in a X31 and a regular hard drive, which will greatly increase performance. Good Luck.

[sjthinkpader]

One of the family member is a designer and she is used to lugging a Wacom pad around. So a Tablet is easy for her to get used to. Other than that a regular X41 is better. The stylus goes in a slot in the left front of a X41t and has a click in and click out mechanism. When you buy a X41t, make sure the stylus and HDD are included as these two items can easily add another $120.

Fred is correct in that 1.8 inch storage device selection are limited and quite expensive. But then 2GB DDR memory for X31/X32 memory is expensive too and 2.5 inch PATA HDDs are getting scarce also.

[Atreides]

Fred - So tablets are heavier than non-tablets? That makes sense. I was not aware that the screen was better, thought they were the same just one had touchscreen functionality. I still have yet to make up my mind as to if I'd benefit from the touchscreen functionality. I've never owned a laptop, let alone a tablet, so all I can do is speculate. Also, thanks for warning me about the X41's hdd issues; something I am very much so aware of. If worse comes to worse I'll simply take the drive out, put in a speedy cf card, and run linux. I have a desktop I use, so I really only need basic functionality out of the laptop. I have looked at the X30's, and although they are nice, I like the supremely small size of the X41.

sj - The regular X41 is generally better than the tablet? Unless I can really see myself using the tablet, I suppose I will just go with the regular version. Also thanks for the warning about the stylus/hdd, they do seem to be quite expensive when purchased separately. Both the X41 and the X32 use older hdd technology, so I think either one will be difficult to upgrade. Either way I do plan on purchasing a small ssd for the laptop in the future.

I have an additional question, pertaining to X41's in general. Do they support bluetooth? If not, is there a way I can add it internally?

[ZaZ]

The tablets need extra parts, which is why they're heavier. The tablet screens are IPS screens. They offer lots of contrast and wide viewing angles, which are two components of a good laptop screen. The CF cards can hiccup sometimes in my experience, which can be almost as annoying as the slowness. Good Luck.

[ajkula66]

X4x series do support bluetooth...with that said:

a) X40/41 (non-tablets) are sweet and light machines that can be had for less than an average netbook

b) X41 tablet is quite a capable piece of equipment, and the screen is very nice...however:

The 1.8"/4200rpm hard drives used in these machines are horribly slow and often noisy, not to mention expensive to replace. SSDs have strong and weak points, but I'd personally find the lack of space annoying...

My suggestion would be to add a few bucks and get a X60 which is a much more modern and upgradeable machine than any X4x. SATA drives, Core Duo CPUs....you get a lot more from this generation of ThinkPads.

My $0.02 only...

[sjthinkpader]

X30 are very low power. But be aware that it uses SDR RAM, even with two slots, 1GB will be the maximum. X31/X32/X40 use DDR but X40 is limited by one slot plus internal memory. So maximum will be 1.25-1.5GB. X41 is best since it use DDR2. Even with single RAM slot, it can go up to 2GB+internal memory.

Out of this group, the X30 and X40 are the lowest in power consumption thus the best untethered operation. I am using a X30 with SSD for IMDB searches while watching TV.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ng#p512241

X40 has a wide selection of CPUs from very low power ULV Banias to good performance Dothans.

If you are thinking to use CF, some do offer reasonable performance. Just be aware that write performance is not rated for CF so some can be slow.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79408
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71881

[Atreides]

My many thanks to everyone who has posted, I'm still not sure if I want to the tablet or not. I think I'll just try and get a regular one on ebay, but will go for the tablet if I happen to find a nice one. (by its nature ebay is somewhat random with availability)

aj you brought up an interesting point however. I had thought myself certain on the X41, but after looking into the X60 I have found it does not cost as much as I had previously thought. Nor was I aware of how improved the internal specs were. From what I understand thus far, in X41 vs X60 it comes down to

Core 2 vs Pentium M
and
1.8" 4200 zif vs 2.5" 5200 sata (a significant improvement)

If anyone could point out any other differences I may be missing, it would be much appreciated. This has shifted my thinking in a new direction, and am now seriously considering the X60's.

From what I can read of ebay, the pricing is

X41 - $150-$200 (much more common than the X60)
X60 - $250-$300 (some go much higher)

Would it be worth it to spend the extra $100 or so on the X60? Would the upgrades warrant the extra $$$?

I was looking for a cheap laptop, and $300 is still relatively cheap compared with the cost of a new laptop. Therefore I ask again, should I aim now for an X60? I had previously thought them far too expensive, but it seems sub $300 corporate returns are not too hard to find on ebay.

[ZaZ]

Yes, the better hard drive in a X60 will probably make a bigger difference performance wise than the CPU, unless you're coding video all day, though there are some things like flash sites that can make the Pentium M chug a bit these days. Sub $300 is a little on the low side for a X60 on eBay unless you get lucky, which is possible. Patience is always the key with eBay.

[sjthinkpader]

We skipped X40/X41 at the office and now use X60s/X61s. At home I used X40/X41 because they are cheap due to the HDD issue. The same patience netted several of the 120GB Samsung HDD and 32GB Sandisk SSD at very reasonable prices. So X40/X41/X41t series works for me.

User feedback comparing X6x and X3x is that they are much less durable as far as the KB and housing is concern. Most batteries needed replacement after two years.

[RDR]

Ok, I too was wondering what the perfect x4x was so I bought them both! I figured I'd sell the "other" one on eBay after my decision. I had used 2 tablets in the past. An HP and a Toshiba so I was comfortable with my use of the tablet. I have to say, the X41 NON tablet blew away the tablet in many regards. It's stronger with a great display, throttled CPU (yes both have it I know) and I acquired a Kingspec 65gb sdd. I spent all weekend testing, moving the sdd between systems and reloading Talet PC and regular XP over and over. THe Tablet started to exhibit a latency when moving the mouse too fsat. Strange. The battery life on a new 5400ma battery is 5.45 hours on the regular x41. Wow! I just sold the tablet for what I paid or it so no loss there. I upgraded to 1.5 gb and am VERY pleased. It's also small enough to compete with anything in the netbook line. Just my .02 but I've been down the road and happy with thex41 regular.

Oh, yes, and the DOC can't be beat! It's the x4 and better than the tablet doc any day. I might even carry it with me on a trip.

Take care,

Rick

[Atreides]

Thanks for all the great posts everyone

You guys have convinced me to go for a standard Thinkpad, the tablet has its uses, but I would probably hardly ever put it in tablet mode other than for novelty. I have decided additionally to upgrade what I am looking for; now going to get a X60s (From what I understand the true successor to the X41, that the X60 is comparable to the X32), as the 2.5" drive/Core 2 Duo was just too good to pass up.

Thusly I will let this thread die and open a new one in the X6x forums, as I still have a few minor questions.

[keithsketchley]

Quick note:
The display on the basic x41 is not great. I understand the x41 Tablet has a much better display but have not seen one.
Otherwise the tablet has more monkey-motion to go wrong (break).

[ssd_thinkpad]

now going to get a X60s.

That would have been my recommendation. Great choice!

[keithsketchley]

Beware that x41 Tablet does not necessarily have all the features of the basic x41.

It appears from the HMM and photos I've seen that the fingerprint reader is optional, I don’t know about the BIOS reload of Computrace/Lojack – those were essential differences between x40 and basic x41.

[keithsketchley]

Correction to my concern about Tablet not having all features of basic x41:

Some things may be on the display part (open face of lid) of the Tablet.

I also see illustrations that suggest the battery has a notch for the central display hinge/pivot, but have not had one in my hands.

[Temetka]

As an owner of an X41T I can tell you they still make for reliable everyday computing machines, as I use mine everyday. It runs linux just fine (Ubuntu 9.10 here) and Windows 7 runs ok as well (a little sluggish IMO, and I can't help but feel that XP would run faster).

I love the IPS LCD in the X41T as it really makes for a great display especially when reading e-books and is very comfortable on my eyes.

The 1.8" HDD is really a non-issue to me because there are viable alternatives available for it such as the 120GB 5400RPM HD, SSD's, and of course a CF drive replacement. Also mine has the 1.5GHz CPU and it handles full screen youtube just fine. Sure the fan spins up a bit, but again, it is not an issue as far as I am concerned.

I really love my little travel buddy and would recommend them to anyone with enough computer knowledge to understand their strengths and weaknesses. They are great machines, just a few generations old. As with all slightly older machines just be aware of the caveats and move on. If I were to recommend a tablet to someone who is not a geek i'd have them look at the X6x series as it would cause less headaches for them in terms of servicing the HD and it supports Aero which can be a dealbreaker for some users.