11n WLAN Adapters on X4x-Series...?

[loyukfai]

I'm thinking whether to upgrade from 2200BG to an 11n adapter on an X41T.

Besides the modded-BIOS, I've set sight on three Atheros solutions, namely the AR5008, AR9160 and AR9220.

The AR5008 seems to be tested and confirmed working on several older ThinkPads. But the AR9160 and AR9220 are newer, have anybody tried them on any X4x, or same generation ThinkPads...?

Also, is there any point using a 3x3 part with only 2 antennas? I would like to upgrade an X61T as well but think it's only got 2 antennas.

Thanks in advance!


Reference: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:thi ... com+ar5008

[sjthinkpader]

I haven't seen the newer Atheros chipsets after AR5008 being offered in miniPCI. Non-whitelist cards don't work in X41/X41t in any case.

I had AR5008 and Ralink cards worked in T42 and A31. Haven't tried X40 but they should work.

Lastly, select a card for two antennae instead of three. This eliminates the need to install the 3rd antenna.

[loyukfai]

They're available in the Mini PCI form factor, though not as plentiful as the AR5008.

I'm leaning towards the AR9220 because it's the newest of the three and, a "single-chip" solution (Baseband, MAC and radio in one chip) and I hope that it generates less heat and is more power-efficient.

3x3 cards can be installed with 2 antennas, but I understand that is essentially like, more or less, using a 2x2 card.

I've got hold of the modded-BIOSs that enable non-whitelisted cards.

For the X61T, I'm not so sure, the price difference between 5100 and 5300 is small. Heck, I'm even considering getting the 5350 although I don't know if WiMax is of any use to me at all.

P.S. The X6x uses full-height Mini PCIe instead of half-height, correct?

Cheers.

[sjthinkpader]

They are not real 3x3 (3T/3R). They are 2T/3R. So if you know which connector does the "R" only, you will be ok. The diverstity control will sense no signal on that port and ignore it.

Single chip solutions are only CHEAP, not better. When the baseband amplifier is in the output mode, it cause depletion on any single chip solution.

[Peak2Peak]

They are not real 3x3 (3T/3R). They are 2T/3R....

Are there any "TRUE" 3T/3R WLAN cards be-it mPCI and/or mPCIe out there?

...When the baseband amplifier is in the output mode, it cause depletion on any single chip solution.

Please could you explain a wee-bit more.

[loyukfai]

One more complexity... Even with modded BIOS, unsupported WLAN adapters will not work with Access Connection and Fn-F5... So maybe it's a better idea to get an AR5008 afterall, since some of them, AFAIK, are officially supported.

Edit: Ooops... Those "IBM" AR5008 adapters cost much more than generic ones...

[sjthinkpader]

Of course there are no supported 11n miniPCI cards, so either Windows Zero utility or vendor (Ralink) utility must be used instead of AC. I added a Lenovo 2T/3R AR5008 PCIe in my T60. The 3rd antenna was added and AC works fine.

My T42p at home is using a non-Lenovo 2T/2R AR5008 miniPCI. AC doesn't work in this machine.

Are there any "TRUE" 3T/3R WLAN cards be-it mPCI and/or mPCIe out there?

Not that I know of. Most PC are in download instead of upload mode. That is why 11n, aDSL are in asynchronous mode. WiMAX are designed to be balanced. So may be the newer WiMAX capable cards are balanced.

...When the baseband amplifier is in the output mode, it cause depletion on any single chip solution.

Please could you explain a wee-bit more.

Sorry I don't know for sure for each individual designs. In general when a large transistors is made on the same substrate (chip) as other circuits, it takes up all the available electrons on the substrate when it turns on, as the bond wires to the ground plane has high inductance. This is called depletion.

Designers has to take measures to "guard band" other circuits so they can continue working. This is the problems in integrating large amplifiers with digital circuits. When such circuit is placed on the circuit board by themself, large capacitors can be placed to isolate the baseband chip from the processor but this cost more. So single chip solutions are not always better.

[Peak2Peak]

sjthinkpader: Many thanks for the explaination

[loyukfai]

Of course there are no supported 11n miniPCI cards, so either Windows Zero utility or vendor (Ralink) utility must be used instead of AC. I added a Lenovo 2T/3R AR5008 PCIe in my T60. The 3rd antenna was added and AC works fine.

My T42p at home is using a non-Lenovo 2T/2R AR5008 miniPCI. AC doesn't work in this machine.

I read that Access Connection can be modded to work with un-official adapters as well. Though with the frequency of updates it could be quite a trouble.

I prefer a stock solution but, they cost quite a bit more so. I would be getting an "IBM" Intel 5100/5300 if they're available in Mini PCI.

If someone has a comparison between the AR5008, AR9160 and AR9220, on their heat, power, throughput, etc. It would be great.

Cheers.

[loyukfai]

Found this via Googling

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=352562

WLAN 11n miniPCIe cards

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=367103

WLAN Card Speed tests

[loyukfai]

Finally installed an AR5008, the wireless LED keeps blinking even under idle. And Fn-F5 has to be modified to recognize the card. But otherwise it just works.

I connected the 2 antennas to the sockets numbered "0" and 2", is it the correct...?



BTW, is there any way to modify the PCI vendor and device ID...? Just asking...

The LED maybe fixable (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_w ... h_WiFi_LED) but it's a small issue so I don't have plans to tinker with it further.

[loyukfai]

Strangely, after upgrading to Windows 7 and installing the Lenovo utilities. Fn-F5 works without any modification.

[dericksantillan]

Hey loyukfai.

Would you mind pointing me in the right direction where I can buy the card on line?

Thanks.

PS: How is the X41 with the new WiFi Card power-wise? Did you notice more battery life with the new card?

[loyukfai]

I think you may try eBay or OxfordTEC.com, just make sure you're getting a Mini PCI not Mini PCIe one.

If you're not sure, post the link here so others can take a look at it... : )

With regard to power usage, I didn't notice much, if any, change at all. The machine is connected to AC most of the time anyway and the battery is already 5-6 years old.

Cheers.

Edit: FWIW, the system is consuming around 12W at minimum brightness with no wireless activity. Normal browsing activity with no Flash seems to be around 13-14W.

[jronald]

3rd antenna
http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-short-laptop- ... 5ad5b1299f
http://cgi.ebay.com/APPLE-MACBOOK-13-BL ... 19b8c22976
http://cgi.ebay.com/APPLE-MACBOOK-13-BL ... 19b8c22976

I have used all of the above, I like the last the best....wire is long enough to get it to the side/lid, but short enough that you dont have a bunch left over.

Ron

[loyukfai]

I just installed another 11n adapter, which should be a dual-band (2.4/5GHz) model, in the X41T. This one is probably an extract from the Apple Airport Extreme. The card looks like exactly like this as arrived (see the top right corner) - It's covered by a silver sticker.

I used the word "should" because at the moment, I don't have a 5GHz AP to test it.

The thing under the sticker should look like this and this. (see this page for more...)

Unlike the last one, Windows 7 couldn't detect and install the driver automatically. I had to manually install the Atheros 5008X driver. Also, the wireless LED stays off all the time, there's no blinking whatsover. Fn-F5 works through, at least, under Windows 7.

In case anybody wants to know, the PCI IDs...

The old one: PCI\VEN_168C&DEV_0023&SUBSYS_2071168C&REV_01
The new one: PCI\VEN_168C&DEV_0023&SUBSYS_0087106B&REV_01

And now, a few pics...



P.S. I'll be selling the old one, but haven't decided through which venue. In case anybody's interested, please drop me a PM.

Latest 7 and Vista drivers available here: http://forums.laptopvideo2go.com/topic/ ... a-x86-x64/

Cheers.

[loyukfai]

A few more bits...

There's a Linux utility (ath_info) to change the PCI IDs of an Atheros WLAN adapter, but I couldn't get it work. Would like to change the device ID to 0024 since it's listed in the official INF files (VEN_168C&DEV_0024&SUBSYS_0087106B). Presumably, after it's changed, Windows will be able to detect and install the driver automatically...? Anyway, manual update is okay since the driver isn't updated every week.

References:
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_w ... et_devices
http://madwifi-project.org/wiki/UserDocs/AthInfo
http://www.mobilnews.cz/honza/ath-eeprom-tool
http://www.modem-help.co.uk/search.php? ... S_0087106B

[T41Tablet]

Um would I be correct in saying that unless you purchase a specific type of wifi card it won't work at all in an X41T? Seems really annoying (much like my unsupported hard disk message on bootup...grrr)

If so where can one find this whitelist?

[loyukfai]

Stock Lenovo BIOS check against the white-list, but you can request a modded BIOS from Zender (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=55837) which bypasses the check, enabling you to use non-approved cards.

Cheers.

[T41Tablet]

I can't seem to find a card on ebay that will work in the X41t. I don't really want to go down the road of using the modded BIOS as I can't afford to brick this machine.

Can anyone recommend a card that will work? All the ones I can find are Mini PCI-e and not Mini PCI which is what I need AFAIK for the X41t.

Thanks

[sjthinkpader]

There are no factory 11n miniPCI card period. Just use an 11n PCCard or USB dongle.

[stevedusa]

Well I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0393634203

Only issue right now is the white-list.

Anyone has a white-list by-passed AND a SLIC 2.1-ed ROM for x41t?

[stevedusa]

Just an update... I was able to obtain a 1802-bypass-ed (no whitelist) ROM and inject SLIC 2.1 to it... problem is, due to size limitation I cannot use any bins for the one from "Founder". But it works. I have it on my x41t, no 1802 and SLIC 2.1-ed with Windows 7.

Also I was thinking about the Atheros AR9220 instead of the AR5008... the one on eBay comes with a set of antenna too. The AR9220 uses 4 connectors (2x2x2): http://cgi.ebay.com/new-Atheros-AR9223- ... 0559746020

Hmm so should I go with the AR5008 or the AR9220...

[stevedusa]

Just got the AR9220... guess what, don't think it works.

The system will see it and report proper hardware IDs and such. However with the driver sets from above (thanks loyukfai) neither automatic search or manual forced install would work. It always returns a Code 10.

Either it's the driver's issue, or the hardware issue.

However I am also suspecting that the AR9220 card requires 5 volts slot where our x41t only supplies with 3.3 volts.

I'm going to try this card on a different machine tonight see if I can get it to work.

Will keep you guys updated.

Maybe the AR5008x is the best way to go for now. Speaking of which, loyukfai you still have the card for sale?

[loyukfai]

It's sold, but I just checked eBay and found quite a few of them.

Look forward to your further findings.

Cheers.

[stevedusa]

Thanks loyukfai.

Anyway an update on the card I got... I tried it on another laptop with 5v slot and clean installation of XP.

It sees the card, reports all the hardware ID back. However... same problem with the drivers. Doesn't matter which version I throw at it. You name it, 6, 7, even 8... Windows will say no drivers found, a forced installation simply fails.

I have a feeling that the card I got is designed for something else but being used as a client such as an AP or something.

Anyway already contacted the seller and asking for an AR5008x instead of refund.

[loyukfai]

Possible, could you post some photos and the PCI IDs?

Cheers.

[stevedusa]

Possible, could you post some photos and the PCI IDs?

Cheers.

Photos I got none but if you do a ebay search for AR9220 it's identical.

As for the PCI ID, this is what I got:

VEN_168C DEV_0029 SUBSYS_0091106B

I checked most of the INFs, which does include the above ID, however I have never seen the subsys it mentioned...

Oh well, it's on it's way back to the seller anyway. Guess I'll just stay with the stock a/b/g.

[loyukfai]

You mean this...?

http://cgi.ebay.com/new-Atheros-AR9223- ... 022wt_1034



That one looks indeed like something designed for an AP, for it has 4 antennas plugs.

There are still AR5008 on eBay if you want 11n, BTW.

Cheers.

[gongo2k1]

I'm running a Ralink RT2860 (from OxfordTEC) in my X41 and it works perfectly fine under Windows 7 Home Premium. I didn't even have to download drivers, the Windows installer recognized it right away and the LED indicator lights up and Fn+F5 works too! I'm using Zender's modified BIOS to bypass the whitelist.