X31 or X32?

[dlbeaty]

Newbie here. Hi all. Lately I have been considering upgrading from my X30, which I have enjoyed considerably. Thinking used on Craigslist or Ebay. After looking at T41's and R51's and learning about the Centrino chipset, I realized that I would lose some capabilities I like with my X30 and Media Slice.

X32's have the newer chips, but are harder to find. X31's are more readily available, but I am wondering if it will be a big enough change from the X30.

I need to be able to swap out my 7200 rpm Travelstar and add the second in the ultrabay. The purpose is for home recording, so battery life is not so important. I will probably take the X30 on trips then.

Any recommendations?

Dan

[schen]

X32's have the newer chips, but are harder to find. X31's are more readily available, but I am wondering if it will be a big enough change from the X30.

I need to be able to swap out my 7200 rpm Travelstar and add the second in the ultrabay. The purpose is for home recording, so battery life is not so important. I will probably take the X30 on trips then.

Any recommendations?

Really the only real difference is that besides being newer, the X32 had the Dothan version of the Pentium M chip vs. the Banias version of the same chip in the X31. Although the Dothans have the bigger cache, IMHO you probably won't see much of a difference between the 2 machine in day to day use. However, you will see a pretty big difference in the average selling price between the X31 & the far more difficult to find X32. If you want to look at the details, you might want to look at the below site:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X_Series

[dlbeaty]

Really the only real difference is that besides being newer, the X32 had the Dothan version of the Pentium M chip vs. the Banias version of the same chip in the X31. Although the Dothans have the bigger cache, IMHO you probably won't see much of a difference between the 2 machine in day to day use. However, you will see a pretty big difference in the average selling price between the X31 & the far more difficult to find X32. If you want to look at the details, you might want to look at the below site:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X_Series

Thanks for the info. One site stated that the speed difference for the Dothan chips could be from 10-20% faster than the Banias. The posts on this forum seen to indicate the greater difference from the x30 to the x31. I have seen a few good deals on the x32, but the condition/price/features out there make it difficult to compare sometimes.

I wouldn't mind a little extra for the x32, if being newer there would be less wear and tear.

Dan

[ZaZ]

One site stated that the speed difference for the Dothan chips could be from 10-20% faster than the Banias.

While that is certainly most likely true, unless you're running the CPU at 100% all the time, you probably won't notice a difference. I'd say for what you can get a X32 for, you might be better off bumping to a X60. It'll get you a dual core chip and access to bigger/faster SATA drives, though you would need to get a new media slice as well.

[sjthinkpader]

The X30 is a very low power design but the big drawback is the SDR RAM. I agree with both schen and Fred that X31/X32 is probably too small of a step. Find a good OEM battery is harder by now.

The X41 is very nice and low cost but you will have to find an 1.8 inch HDD or SSD. X60 is a good choice too especially if you need a lot of storage.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ng#p508356

[dlbeaty]

The X30 is a very low power design but the big drawback is the SDR RAM. I agree with both schen and Fred that X31/X32 is probably too small of a step. Find a good OEM battery is harder by now.

The X41 is very nice and low cost but you will have to find an 1.8 inch HDD or SSD. X60 is a good choice too especially if you need a lot of storage.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ng#p508356

Okay, so I see that x60 has 3 usb and firewire, which most do not have. I would need the media slice to add a second hard drive, and the caddy for a 2.5" drive I already have. I also hoped to transfer the 7200 rpm Travelstar as the primary, but is there a chance that a newer laptop would have one of equal speed already?

Really though, we are in a much higher price range. I have accessories that already work for the x30 series. What started me on this was a used A31 I got for my grandaughter. The 1.8 P4 in it seemed a real improvement over my x30. So I figured a 1.7 or 1.8 would be nice in a smaller package.

Dan

[dlbeaty]

While that is certainly most likely true, unless you're running the CPU at 100% all the time, you probably won't notice a difference. I'd say for what you can get a X32 for, you might be better off bumping to a X60. It'll get you a dual core chip and access to bigger/faster SATA drives, though you would need to get a new media slice as well.

Actually I will be running it at 100% most of the time and on AC. But if I can get a good enough deal on an x31, I think I should see some improvement.

Dan

[sjthinkpader]

If you will be running on AC 100%, may be a T43 will be better and at reasonable cost. WD is still making new 2.5 PATA HDDs, upto 320GB. My kids are using T43 + X41. I am using a 15 inch T43.

[schen]

If you will be running on AC 100%, may be a T43 will be better and at reasonable cost. WD is still making new 2.5 PATA HDDs, upto 320GB. My kids are using T43 + X41. I am using a 15 inch T43.

My household is completely on PATA HDD machines as well ranging from R5x/T4x on down to X4x and X2x right now and they all function fine on either XPP or W7. I must say though that I, as a matter of course, max out the RAM on my machines and try to keep a decent spindle speed/Areal density ratio going, with all machines running at least 5400rpm HDDs.

Which is a long way of saying that if finances dictate where on the ThinkPad model spectrum you land, the X31/32 are really still very usable machines especially when brought "up to spec" (eg. 1.5-2Gb of RAM, 7200rpm or modern 5400rpm- high areal density HDD).

That being said, sjthinkpadder makes a good point in that given what you've said about your style of use, the T43 currently makes an excellent combination of power (not only the Dothan version of Pentium M, but the faster 533 bus), more powerful video subsystem, much larger screen (14.1 or 15") with the possibility of much higher resolution (SXGA+ & UXGA) with the use of DDR2 giving you the ability of upgrading RAM at maybe half the price of DDR. As an example, I recently picked up a T43p- 2Gb of RAM, 7200rpm HDD, std. UXGA flexview screen and all the bell & whistles for $250 from Craig's List here in Dallas! So if you don't need the extra portability, you can buy a LOT of power for what you'd expect to spend on a X31/32.

[dlbeaty]

If you will be running on AC 100%, may be a T43 will be better and at reasonable cost. WD is still making new 2.5 PATA HDDs, upto 320GB. My kids are using T43 + X41. I am using a 15 inch T43.

You have a point about the T43, but I am annoyed by the lack of PS2 mouse and firewire, with only 2 usb ports. That forces me to either use adapters, which cause problems with what I need to do, put out extra money for a port replicator, or frequently unplug and replug my devices.

Dan

[schen]

You have a point about the T43, but I am annoyed by the lack of PS2 mouse and firewire, with only 2 usb ports. That forces me to either use adapters, which cause problems with what I need to do, put out extra money for a port replicator, or frequently unplug and replug my devices.

Dan

Based on what I've been able to ascertain from your posts so far, it sounds like the machine will be a largely, "stay-at-home" computer. If that is accurate, the addition of a "port replicator" or even "dock" shouldn't be much of an issue. Currently, both of the items can be had inexpensively (sometime for little more than the cost of shipping). And in combination with the UltraBay-Slim that's already in the T43 (or something similar), you'd have great flexibility that isn't available to you even with the addition of an UltraBase X3/X4 to one of the "ultra-portable" machine. In fact with the Dock II, you get an additional UltraBay 2000 that will give you the ability to add several types of devices such as an additional HDD as well as PS/2 ports and a powered 4-port USB hub.

I think, what we're really trying to say is that "ultra-portables" have their place. I have an X41 that is my preferred travel computer, but there is a price to be paid both in monetary terms and functionality as they tend to be more expensive for the computing power that you get, on top of which, they also have fewer or more restricted features (eg. smaller/lower res. screen). So, if you don't need for a particular machine to travel frequently, then go with something that's has a better "cost/benefit" ratio for the job it's expected to do.

Of course, that being said, you could become like many of us and become addicted to ThinkPads and have one for every occasion!

[Temetka]

Looking over the specs of the X31 and X32 machines I would vote for the X31 over the X32 due mainly to the availability of the X31 units. That being said if you want the size of the X series I would highly suggest what has been mentioned before: Get an X6x unit and move on. You would gain a far better CPU, far better graphics, SATA, and cheaper RAM. With a SATA hard drive you will see far better performance than a machine equipped with a PATA hard drive.

I would stay away from the T4x line of machines unless they have integrated (Intel) graphics. The failure rate of the T4x series with discrete graphics is too high IMO to justify buying one of them now unless you can find one with a warranty through Lenovo.

As long as we are talking T series, then you might as well step up to a T60 which can be had for pretty cheap now.

Unless of course you are stuck on the X series, my advice would be to look at the X6x line first, then the X4x line hard drive size (1.8") notwithstanding. The size of the HD in the X4x series is not a major problem as large capacity drives and even SSD's are available for them and you gain better graphics than the 16MB ATI in the X3x series and DDR2 in the case of the X41 units.

Ultimately what you buy should make you happy as you are the one who will be using it. I can tell you that I am currently typing this on my beloved X41T which while not the speediest laptop in the world meets my requirements perfectly and it travels perfectly. Good luck with your purchasing decision, just be sure to post back and let us know how it goes.

[sjthinkpader]

...I would stay away from the T4x line of machines unless they have integrated (Intel) graphics. The failure rate of the T4x series with discrete graphics is too high IMO to justify buying one of them now unless you can find one with a warranty through Lenovo. ....

Owning many T43 and T42s, I have to say I've never seem a T43 failure and haven't seen a single T42 GPU failure in this past year. These machines are to the age now that they've past the solder joint failure point in their life.

[dlbeaty]

Last night on an impulse I made an offer of $250 for an x32 1.8 w 1 gig mem and media slice with cdrw/dvd. The buy now was for 290 free shipping so I didn't expect they would take it. They did, so --- I guess I made my decision. Most of the x31s had less memory installed anyway.

While I will be using it mostly at home, I still like the option of mobility and ex-changeability
of most options with my x30. The features have always been a perfect fit for me and my habits.

And if my x30 dies I will still have a very light pc for trips and such.

Dan

[schen]

Last night on an impulse I made an offer of $250 for an x32 1.8 w 1 gig mem and media slice with cdrw/dvd. The buy now was for 290 free shipping so I didn't expect they would take it. They did, so --- I guess I made my decision. Most of the x31s had less memory installed anyway.

While I will be using it mostly at home, I still like the option of mobility and ex-changeability
of most options with my x30. The features have always been a perfect fit for me and my habits.

And if my x30 dies I will still have a very light pc for trips and such.

Congrats, that's a fair price for that rare beast. Being a Dothan equipped machine, you should be in decent shape as far as everyday use is concerned. I would advise you to try and upgrade your RAM to 2Gb if/when the opportunity presents itself. Although less expensive (per Mb) than the SDRAM that the X30 takes, the PC2700 DDR it uses isn't getting any cheaper, however most of the big outfits (such as Fry's, Micro Center, & Newegg) will often have special or MIR to make the price reasonable. The main thing to be careful of here is using the "Value" line from Corsair or Kingston which are often "hit or miss" propositions on ThinkPads.

In your situation I might also consider adding a 2631 or 2877 (for future upgrades) full dock that gives you not only a UB2K bay, but a PCI slot to work with as well. Both of these docks tend to sell very inexpensively if you wait patiently. Oh and one other thing related to you staying in the X3x range; since the X3 UltraBase as well as the docks take the UB2K devices, you can quite often pick up a DVD Multi-Burner inexpensively as well or easily modify a generic drive like the NECs that I've used, by adding the adapter pieces and cutting the notch for the ejector handle.

Good luck with your new baby.

[dlbeaty]

Congrats, that's a fair price for that rare beast. Being a Dothan equipped machine, you should be in decent shape as far as everyday use is concerned. I would advise you to try and upgrade your RAM to 2Gb if/when the opportunity presents itself. Although less expensive (per Mb) than the SDRAM that the X30 takes, the PC2700 DDR it uses isn't getting any cheaper, however most of the big outfits (such as Fry's, Micro Center, & Newegg) will often have special or MIR to make the price reasonable. The main thing to be careful of here is using the "Value" line from Corsair or Kingston which are often "hit or miss" propositions on ThinkPads.

In your situation I might also consider adding a 2631 or 2877 (for future upgrades) full dock that gives you not only a UB2K bay, but a PCI slot to work with as well. Both of these docks tend to sell very inexpensively if you wait patiently. Oh and one other thing related to you staying in the X3x range; since the X3 UltraBase as well as the docks take the UB2K devices, you can quite often pick up a DVD Multi-Burner inexpensively as well or easily modify a generic drive like the NECs that I've used, by adding the adapter pieces and cutting the notch for the ejector handle.

Good luck with your new baby.

Thanks. I am not sure if the Dock would be that useful in my situation. I have wondered about PC card usb ports. Has anyone had either good or bad results from this method?

Currently I have a firewire backup drive, a usb concert to IDE DVD burner, my Tascam recording interface on the second USB and ps2 mouse. The second HD is in the ultrabay and the Cubase dongle is on the ultrabase also, so I am ready go go as soon as it is attached.

BYW, I only have 512 mb on the x30 and it purrs quite well with win2k when recording and mixing. Since most new apps need at least XP, I have been finally feeling the need for a faster with more ram pc. Am I correct in assuming that the system itself demands more ram? Thats what MS states.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, I will report back when the x32 is recieved.

Dan

[Temetka]

Grats on the X32 conquest!

As has already been suggested, max out the RAM slap a nice HD in there and you should be set. I have a special place in my heart for Dothan processors because Intel did a downright amazing job with them and the are ridiculously efficient little number crunchers. If it weren't for the 16MB video card I might have gotten one of those. Don't get me wrong I have all kinds of love for ATI cards and have been a loyal ATI fan for years going back to before AGP was a glint in an engineers bottle of scotch. I just prefer them to have 32MB of RAM. That's the lowest I will accept in any system I am going to be using on a day to day basis.

As much as I love Windows 2000 and praise it as being one of Microsoft's best Operating Systems to date, it is beginning to show its age. If you do run it on the X32, it will fly. However I would suggest XP SP3 over Win2K SP4. Mainly for security reasons. If I could run Win2K as locked down as XP then I would still be using it.

It sounds like you paid a good price for the machine you purchased. Make sure to take some pics and let us know how the old gal is when she arrives.

[sjthinkpader]

...I just prefer them to have 32MB of RAM. That's the lowest I will accept in any system I am going to be using on a day to day basis....

And what effect on usage you can observe if the VRAM is less than 32MB?

[dlbeaty]

Grats on the X32 conquest!

As much as I love Windows 2000 and praise it as being one of Microsoft's best Operating Systems to date, it is beginning to show its age. If you do run it on the X32, it will fly. However I would suggest XP SP3 over Win2K SP4. Mainly for security reasons. If I could run Win2K as locked down as XP then I would still be using it.

It sounds like you paid a good price for the machine you purchased. Make sure to take some pics and let us know how the old gal is when she arrives.

The W2k on my x30 has not been on the internet, if that is the security to which you are referring. The x32 I am getting already has XP Pro SP3 on it. I didn't ask, but I am hoping that is has the built in recovery partition.

This is how ignorant I am of XP: What is the best way to transfer the OEM system to another HD? Can the recovery partition be used to make a CD? I have a friend who has had issues with the registration of XP after changing hardware and re-installation.

Tomorrow it should be here. I will check back when I can.

Dan

[Temetka]

And what effect on usage you can observe if the VRAM is less than 32MB?

For one thing a 32MB card is what is needed for WoW. Secondly the 32MB card runs Deus Ex smoother than the 2nd card.

So, for me, I observe better FPS in the few games I do play.

[dlbeaty]

Grats on the X32 conquest!

As has already been suggested, max out the RAM slap a nice HD in there and you should be set. ........

It sounds like you paid a good price for the machine you purchased. Make sure to take some pics and let us know how the old gal is when she arrives.

The x32 came yesterday and in very good condition! I am very pleased. It appears to have the original recovery partition from what I can tell. PCDoctor shows a NTFS partition and a fat32 smaller partition. I read in this forum that I can make the recovery partition visible in the bios, which I will try.

I am concerned that the recovery partition itself could later become damaged, or that I might need it when migrating to a larger HD. Since I cannot use the ultrabay HD and floppy at the same time (one drawback of the x3x series) I cannot use my current Norton Ghost 2002 to clone the disk. Do you think I could install both hds in my A31, boot up to a maxtor or Ghost floppy and copy the recovery partition to the new hd?

Also, my x30 would allow access to and external floppy via parallel port, but not through the x3 dock. This x32 will not. Is that normal? Legacy floppy support is enabled in the bios. Do I need the Dock II for that?

Dan

[sjthinkpader]

X32 would normally use USB FDD.

You can clone the old disk with an Ultrabay tray or an USB adapter then put away the old HDD for safe keeping. X32 can use all the Ultrabase, port replicator, mini dock and full dock.

[dlbeaty]

X32 would normally use USB FDD.


You can clone the old disk with an Ultrabay tray or an USB adapter then put away the old HDD for safe keeping. X32 can use all the Ultrabase, port replicator, mini dock and full dock.

In the bios there is a Legacy Floppy setting that "enables diskette drive connector." Perhaps that is for use in the port replicator and docks that have that small connector. The floppy that came with my x30 had another adapter for the cord that converted to parallel connection.

I have the Ultrabase and the tray adapter for the HD. I am old school in thinking that cloning should be done from dos, drdos etc, but my devices are not recognized in that mode.

Is there a software that can clone the hidden partition and the OS realiably? Preferably cheaply?

I saw where I can make the hidden partition visible, but there is a warning that it could be overridden by Windows. How risky is that?

Thanks again for any help.

Dan

[dlbeaty]

If you will be running on AC 100%, may be a T43 will be better and at reasonable cost. WD is still making new 2.5 PATA HDDs, upto 320GB. My kids are using T43 + X41. I am using a 15 inch T43.

Are there any issues that I should know about if I get a WD 250 GB drive? Someone on Amazon said that his older PC needed special software to recognize over 120 GB.

I was planning to swap out the 60 GB 7200 Travelstar, but here they are saying that these newer, larger 5400 compete very well.

Dan

[sjthinkpader]

I do have a WD 250GB. Haven't tried it in a X32 yet but it should work fine. We are using WD in mostly T42, T43s. These are some of the fastest PATA drives, even faster than Hitachi 7K100 due to much higher areal density.

You can see the benchmark in this thread:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=30
(Aug. 8th table)

[dlbeaty]

I do have a WD 250GB. Haven't tried it in a X32 yet but it should work fine. We are using WD in mostly T42, T43s. These are some of the fastest PATA drives, even faster than Hitachi 7K100 due to much higher areal density.

You can see the benchmark in this thread:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=30
(Aug. 8th table)

Thanks for the link. Interesting. There was a Fujitsu MHV2080 in there that was not too much slower than the Hitachi 7200. The x32 I just purchased had a Fujitsu MHV2040AH in it that tested much slower than my 7200 Hitachi and a 40 Gb 5400 Samsung, using DiskBench.

I will test it again in a different configuration. Am I correct in assuming that the 40 Gb should be somewhat comparable with the 80?

Dan

[sjthinkpader]

Single platter design will be always faster than 2 platter designs on the same density, due to higher areal density.

7200rpm moves the platters 33% faster than a 5400rpm drives. A drive of double the capacity will be 100% faster at the same rotational speed because more bit will pass under the head.

A single platter design will be 100% faster than 2 platter design of the same capacity and rotational speed. I bought a Seagate Momentus 7200.4 250GB SATA drive recently. It is essentially a single platter version of the 500GB drive and just as fast.

There is a Samsung HM160HC that is a single platter design. It should be just as fast as a WD WD3200BEVE 320GB 2 platter drive. I don't know if the WD1600BEVE is a single platter or 2 platter design.