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Kingspec Slowed Down

X2/X3/X4x series specific matters only
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Kingspec Slowed Down

#1 Post by fastoy » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:22 pm

I put the 32GB Kingspec in my X40 a year ago. Over time, I perceived it slowing down. Last weekend I swapped back to the original HD and the speed returned. Is there some firmware I should have flashed or some setting I should have made to maintain the original speed of the Kingspec?

http://benmoore.blogspot.com/2010/07/wi ... d-x40.html

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:02 pm

Check if your SSD's Trim is active, and that any defrag operation is prohibited.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#3 Post by Tasurinchi » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:25 pm

I don't think those cheap Kingspecs support TRIM, but I'd be glad if I'm proved wrong :wink:
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#4 Post by fastoy » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:09 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Check if your SSD's Trim is active, and that any defrag operation is prohibited.
As pointed out by Tasurinchi, the Kingspecs don't support TRIM and I have disabled defrag.

It just got progressively slower. I would notice as I was browsing, when data was downloading and being written to the SSD before being presented I would get the spinning cursor. I even switched from Firefox to Chrome as Chrome uses different processes for each tab so that only one tab would be frozen at a time. That helped but obviously didn't solve the problem.

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#5 Post by Tasurinchi » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:09 am

I think probably a clean install (with formatting the SSD) would be the only solution. I also have an old Sandisk SSD in my X41T using Ubuntu and noticed the performance loss with the time as well. But Since the X41T it's my sofa machine for web browsing only, I do a clean install every new Ubuntu distribution gets out.


I haven't figure out (= lazy) a tool as TRIM alternative for such cases.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#6 Post by AMATX » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:49 pm

Be sure you have FULL backup for your Kingspec. Those cheap drives have way of going POOF on you with no notice.

Probably time to get a new SSD, altho you may not want to. The 32G are really cheap, so you may wanna just suck it up and get one while your old one is still functional.

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#7 Post by Harryc » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:55 pm

The problem is that for IDE SSD's Kingspecs are just about the only game left in town. Can anyone recommend a solid performing and reliable/fast IDE SSD?

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#8 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:27 pm

Not cheap but highly recommended: OWC (Other World Computing)
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/ ... Legacy_Pro
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#9 Post by Tasurinchi » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:18 am

Harryc wrote:Can anyone recommend a solid performing and reliable/fast IDE SSD?
I've seen good feedback in the German thinkpad forum for this brand.They have ZIF and 44-pin IDE models. Although they're pricey.

I also have an old Sandisk that's working fine, but I don't think it's still in production. Then we have the Lenovo branded 60GB SSD (I think they're from Samsung?) the Mtron and the Runcore ones. That's it from top of my head... They're all mostly available on Ebay, see some links below:

Mtron

Runcore
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#10 Post by Harryc » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:14 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Not cheap but highly recommended: OWC (Other World Computing)
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/ ... Legacy_Pro
Those OWC drives have some nice specs. I'll definitely put them on my short list. Thanks.

@Tasurinchi, thanks for the recommends ...

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#11 Post by Tasurinchi » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:48 am

Thanks RBS for the hint regarding the OWC's

Maybe you've seen it already :oops: , but since the discussion started with an X40 TP, I have to point out that those OWC's won't fit in the standard X4x HDD slot.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#12 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:35 am

Hah, would you like a 240GB SSD in an X41 or X41-Tablet? Or soon 480GB? :twisted:
All it needs is a SATA mod plus this baby:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_1.8
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#13 Post by Tasurinchi » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:56 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Hah, would you like a 240GB SSD in an X41 or X41-Tablet? Or soon 480GB? :twisted:
All it needs is a SATA mod plus this baby:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_1.8
OMG! 480GB! At least now I know that I can keep my X4x's for long! Provided someone is nice enough to do the SATA mods for me... :mrgreen:
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#14 Post by AMATX » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:46 pm

If you're gonna be stuck on an old interface for your SSD, maybe the thing to do is buy an extra or two of the Kingspec, clone 'em, and just swap 'em out whenever one blows out.

Not free, but at some point you have to evaluate how old and incompatible of a hardware platform you're willing to use.

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#15 Post by sjthinkpader » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:41 am

Without TRIM, garbage collection can be done manually. Do a write "1111" to all free space. I've used older version of Eraser to do that. Newer version doesn't allow custom data patterns anymore. I posted a cleaning method in the SSD sticky on Oct. 17th, page 26.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#16 Post by AMATX » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:42 am

sjthinkpader wrote:Without TRIM, garbage collection can be done manually. Do a write "1111" to all free space. I've used older version of Eraser to do that. Newer version doesn't allow custom data patterns anymore. I posted a cleaning method in the SSD sticky on Oct. 17th, page 26.
Didn't find your post; pls provide a link.

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#17 Post by Harryc » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:05 am


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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#18 Post by ThinkRob » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:00 am

For the X40, at least, my solution is typically to pick up a ZIF->IDE caddy/convertor (about $10 on eBay) and then get any one of a number of 1.8" ZIF SSDs. The convertor adds some expense, but also opens up a larger selection of (IMHO better) drives, such as some nice SLC Samsung SSDs.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#19 Post by AMATX » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:49 pm

Thanks, Harry; YOU da Mon :)

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#20 Post by sjthinkpader » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:29 am

Thank you Harry,

Note that the newest version of Eraser doesn't allow custom data patterns. So you'll need to look for an older version, or any other secure-erase programs that allows custom data patterns.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#21 Post by AMATX » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:57 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:Thank you Harry,

Note that the newest version of Eraser doesn't allow custom data patterns. So you'll need to look for an older version, or any other secure-erase programs that allows custom data patterns.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/eraser/ ... raser%205/

How 'bout one of these? I scarfed up both, but figured the more recent cut, version 5.8.8, would do the job.

Dunno when I'll get around to trying it; kinda backed up w/other stuff near term.

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#22 Post by sjthinkpader » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:10 am

I am using Eraser 5.86.1 so 5.8.8 should work.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#23 Post by Tasurinchi » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:12 am

One general question. Would a clean install (with a drive format) delete the content of old SSDs? I've thougth so but I still feel my Sandisk SSD is getting slower after the latest clean install of Ubuntu 11.04.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#24 Post by sjthinkpader » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:54 am

OS is generally technology independent. OS doesn't know the physical layer routines the flash controller has to do to write or erase. Even TRIM is a drive function. The drive just doesn't start TRIM until OS tells it to.

For NAND flash used in today's SSD, write (1 to 0) is fast but erase (0 to 1) is slow. Drives simply use clean free space (1s) until it runs out of free space. When that happens, the drive will do slow erase before write can happen. That is what cause the the gradual slowing when the drive gets older. OS doesn't know what state the storage cells are in when it tries to write something or a erase operation needs to be performed. So it doesn't always return free cells back to "1"s. TRIM function in the (newer) drives return cells to "1"s but the drive will not do that until the OS tells it to. Windows7 support TRIM but you have to check Ubunto TRIM status.

I would go ahead and use a secure-erase software for Linux and run a write "1111" data pattern as a first step.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#25 Post by Harryc » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:06 am

sjthinkpader wrote:I would go ahead and use a secure-erase software for Linux and run a write "1111" data pattern as a first step.
How often would you recommend doing this?

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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#26 Post by Tasurinchi » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:18 am

sjthinkpader wrote:I would go ahead and use a secure-erase software for Linux
D@ng! I thought a formatting would do... I guess I'd head back to the Ubuntu forum then...
Last edited by Tasurinchi on Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#27 Post by sjthinkpader » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:32 pm

Harryc wrote:...
How often would you recommend doing this?
If there are a lot of free space, it will take a long time to run out of "clean" (1111...) free space. If there are limited free space, then likely it will be "dirty" free space (1001101...) and erase operation will happen frequently. Then you want to clean the free space frequently.

Since most SSDs are relatively small so free space likely will be small, I would do that monthly.

My wife is using SSD in her main machine and Windows7 TRIM seems to work properly. It is still pretty quick. That SSD supports TRIM.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#28 Post by ThinkRob » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:45 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:The drive just doesn't start TRIM until OS tells it to.
Technically-speaking this is true. It's worth noting, however, that many SSDs do background garbage collection, and as such do not need a TRIM-savvy OS to avoid performance loss due to use.

It's also worth noting that not all drives are equally-subject to this. The first-generation X25-Ms, for example, hold up quite well over time despite not supporting TRIM. (IIRC, Anandtech did some benchmarks and showed the loss, while measurable, to be insignificant for typical day-to-day use.)
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#29 Post by Magreve » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:10 pm

sjthinkpader wrote: ... a lot of free space ... = ... long time to run out of "clean" (1111...) free space
... limited free space ... = ... clean the free space frequently ... monthly.

My wife is using SSD in her main machine and Windows7 TRIM seems to work properly. It is still pretty quick. That SSD supports TRIM.
So, IOW, just because you turn off defrag on an SSD, it _still_ needs a defrag-like operation?
Good to know wife finds Win7 on SSD good, since I'm headed there. :D

I have found, in Win-world, that adjusting memory use settings / caches / pagefile size ALSO can signif effect speed ... eg if yer not gaming, setting Win for background processes often helps, since it does so much (useless?) stuff in background. I don't know enuf about Linux versions to know if same scenario exists. I have always developed on old PCs, test on med and new ... because that's what users have ... and generally, if it runs on mine fine, it runs on theirs real spiffy.
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Re: Kingspec Slowed Down

#30 Post by Tasurinchi » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:28 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:I would go ahead and use a secure-erase software for Linux and run a write "1111" data pattern as a first step.
I could not find that, but I've found a way to complete secure erase the disk. It took about 2 minutes, pretty straight forward: click me

In my case it was more practical to do this, since I re-install a new distro every few months (normally the latest Mint or Ubuntu distro) and my X41T is a purely couch machine. Though I thought it may be interesting for Linux users.
Last edited by Tasurinchi on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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