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ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dinos)

X60/X61 series specific matters only.
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Bibin
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ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dinos)

#1 Post by Bibin » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:39 am

Everyone with an X61, can you do me a favor and tell me the refresh rate of the display? Ideally test it with a real FPS counter too? I just got an X61 non-tablet. It came running at 50Hz. I installed a linux distro on it. Using xrandr, I can tell it to use 60Hz. It then says it is running at 60, but is in fact still running at 50. Under Windows I have had similar behavior - I will tell it to run at 60Hz, but the display itself will still run at 50 while reporting 60. This was verified using a test that flashes a box every 1/60th of a second. The 50Hz refresh is evident because the flashing was jerky. My X61 tablet runs at an honest 60Hz without a question.

Many will say, "But it's an LCD, it doesn't matter as much". True, not for eye strain, but I frequently create content and use software that expects on a 60Hz display for smooth animation, so this isn't a problem that may be rationalized away.

So, if anyone could shed some light on a solution and tell me what their display says vs what it really does, that would be great. Everyone who's retrofitted an SXGA+ panel, if you could report in as well that would be very helpful.

This link appears to easily let you determine your refresh rate without downloading anything:
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

This will be additionally helpful in coaxing out the true refresh:
http://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

For reference, if I tell my X61 to run at 60Hz, it will then say 60fps on that test, but the movement of the UFO will be jerky (dropping every 6th frame to fit 60 frames into 50).
Last edited by Bibin on Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:52 am

Suggestion: try Powerstrip to change the refresh-rate in the EDID.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#3 Post by Bibin » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:17 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Suggestion: try Powerstrip to change the refresh-rate in the EDID.
If I install Windows I'll give it a try, but I'm running Linux at the moment.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#4 Post by raket » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:07 am

I had this problem with a X61 and a X61s, My X60 runs 60hz however
edit: I even mounted the X60 lcd on both the X61/X61s and it was still 50hz.

The crippled sound-card made me go back to my old X60 :)
Last edited by raket on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thinkpad X61s L7500, 4gb ram, 60 gb hdd
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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#5 Post by Bibin » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:09 pm

raket wrote:I had this problem with a X61 and a X61s, My X60 runs 60hz however
edit: I even mounted the X60 lcd on both the X61/X61s and it was still 50hz.

The crippled sound-card made me go back to my old X60 :)
Interesting. Maybe I will try to source a high-end X60 motherboard.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#6 Post by raket » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:32 pm

I noticed the 60hz while playing quakeworld on it, and there's difference between it and X61/X61s.

However you should put up with something that i can test to see if it's really 60hz instead of wasting money and i'm wrong
Last edited by raket on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#7 Post by E350 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:15 pm

X61 T8300 @2.4GHz 8.0GB ram W7 64-bit

TestUFO.com results:

Frame rate: 50 fps
Refresh rate: 50Hz
Pixels per frame: 19
Pixels per sec: 960

Windows Experience Rating: 3.1


X61T L7700 @1.80GHz 8.0GB ram W7 64-bit

TestUFO.com results:

Frame rate: 60 fps
Refresh rate: 60Hz
Pixels per frame: 16
Pixels per sec: 960

Windows Experience Rating: 3.1

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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#8 Post by pkiff » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:01 am

Thanks for posting your test results. That is strange.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#9 Post by Bibin » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:32 pm

Well, that just about matches my result. I'd really like for someone with an X61 (non-tablet model) SXGA+ LCD mod to do the test as well. If the SXGA+ LCD with the modified BIOS runs it at 60Hz, then that would be the ultimate solution for me as I was planning on making the upgrade anyway.

My old X41 aalso ran at 50Hz, while the X41t ran at 60hz - the trend continued into the X6x series. I did solve the problem by flashing the X41 motherboard with the X41t BIOS, and despite the update program complaining towards the end with an error, it booted up just fine and allowed me to run the display at 60Hz (though it still defaulted to 50Hz in Windows). I'd risk it on my X61 if it wasn't one of the less-common Penryn based ones.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#10 Post by raket » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:45 am

I need to say i'm sorry for you. I just tried vsync on my X60 (non-tablet) and it's indeed 50hz.
I guess it's only 60hz in 320x200 :/

It's 50hz all the way.
Thinkpad X61s L7500, 4gb ram, 60 gb hdd
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Re: ThinkPad X61 screen questions for everyone

#11 Post by Bibin » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:50 am

raket wrote:I need to say i'm sorry for you. I just tried vsync on my X60 (non-tablet) and it's indeed 50hz.
I guess it's only 60hz in 320x200 :/

It's 50hz all the way.
Well that's disappointing, but at least I won't be downgrading to an X60 board. I will report how well using the SXGA+ LCD works, and see if it runs at 60Hz for any reason. If that doesn't work, I will try flashing the tablet BIOS to the X61, as every X61 tablet I've used does in fact run at true 60Hz.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz

#12 Post by Bibin » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:56 pm

Well, my SXGA+ LCD doesn't even work, so I can't really test that. I have a regular XGA X41 Tablet LCD on the way. I'll report if that one runs at 60Hz on the X61.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz

#13 Post by Bibin » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:44 pm

While I wait for the LCD to arrive, I've already built the 180 degree LVDS cable adapter:

Image
Image
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dino

#14 Post by RMSMajestic » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:15 am

This is most likely the problem with vBIOS or graphics drivers
On my X60s, with only the very early version of driver, it operates at 60Hz.
But bizzaringly, on my X61 , no matter which driver is used, always 50Hz
and on my X61t, it's always 60Hz regardless of the driver
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dino

#15 Post by ryan1212 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:10 pm

My X60 1709-H6U is also running at 50hz.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dino

#16 Post by Bibin » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:11 pm

I wonder if the video BIOS portion of the BIOS image may be extracted from the X61t BIOS and put into the regular X61 BIOS... X61t, even at 1024x768, is always 60Hz.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dino

#17 Post by axur-delmeria » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:11 am

Tested on my X61 7676-A24 on Linux. Just like yours, I set it to 60Hz but FPS counter says ~50Hz.
It may be a limitation of the LCD panel itself and not the VBIOS or drivers.

The datasheet of the HT121X01-101 (one of three non-IPS panels specified for the X6x series), the states a response time of 20ms, which is equivalent to 50Hz.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dino

#18 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:26 am

I just refurbished an X61 (7673-CTO) with a brand-new screen.
This is an IDTech IAXG02C that was originally meant for a HP Compaq NC4010.
I have a test-HD, which I use in almost any Thinkpad, incl. T601 Frankenpad.
The Frankie has an IPS 1600x1200 LED-screen and I used nVidia drivers from the T61 to run that UXGA.
So this HD has a genuine collection of all sorts of GPU drivers, incl. Intel, ATI and nVidia.
When I put this HD with W7-Pro 32-bit in the above X61, it automatically installed SOME graphics driver.
When I ran the testufo tests, the result was 60Hz.
Checking the Control Panel/Display/Change display settings, it showed me two display-options:
- 1600x1200 Flexview??? (unfortunately did not write down details)
- Thinkpad Display 1024x768
It also showed both 50Hz and 60Hz options!

The 1600x1200 was highlighted, hence probably the 60Hz.
After I then selected the Thinkpad 1024x768, and ran the testufo again, both were now at 50Hz.
Going back in Control Panel/Display, the 1600x1200 (and the 60Hz) options were no longer there.

So I guess if you connect your HD to another machine that runs at 60Hz and get a nice driver-mixup,
you may force your X61 to also run at 60Hz.
Have fun!
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dino

#19 Post by Bibin » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:12 pm

axur-delmeria wrote:Tested on my X61 7676-A24 on Linux. Just like yours, I set it to 60Hz but FPS counter says ~50Hz.
It may be a limitation of the LCD panel itself and not the VBIOS or drivers.

The datasheet of the HT121X01-101 (one of three non-IPS panels specified for the X6x series), the states a response time of 20ms, which is equivalent to 50Hz.
Response time is 100% unrelated to the refresh rate limitations, so that information is a red herring. Response time only specifies how long it takes for the liquid crystal to undergo the complete transition from one rotation to another (a tone change for a subpixel). The X41, another machine with this problem, doesn't use EDID, and yet the problem persists, so the computer is more or less agnostic of which display is in use.
RealBlackStuff wrote:I just refurbished an X61 (7673-CTO) with a brand-new screen.
This is an IDTech IAXG02C that was originally meant for a HP Compaq NC4010.
I have a test-HD, which I use in almost any Thinkpad, incl. T601 Frankenpad.
The Frankie has an IPS 1600x1200 LED-screen and I used nVidia drivers from the T61 to run that UXGA.
So this HD has a genuine collection of all sorts of GPU drivers, incl. Intel, ATI and nVidia.
When I put this HD with W7-Pro 32-bit in the above X61, it automatically installed SOME graphics driver.
When I ran the testufo tests, the result was 60Hz.
Checking the Control Panel/Display/Change display settings, it showed me two display-options:
- 1600x1200 Flexview??? (unfortunately did not write down details)
- Thinkpad Display 1024x768
It also showed both 50Hz and 60Hz options!

The 1600x1200 was highlighted, hence probably the 60Hz.
After I then selected the Thinkpad 1024x768, and ran the testufo again, both were now at 50Hz.
Going back in Control Panel/Display, the 1600x1200 (and the 60Hz) options were no longer there.

So I guess if you connect your HD to another machine that runs at 60Hz and get a nice driver-mixup,
you may force your X61 to also run at 60Hz.
Have fun!
Those are interesting results. I will see what changing / removing the monitor profile can do.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dino

#20 Post by Bibin » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:37 am

I installed the SXGA+ LCD from an old X60 tablet. For a while I had trouble getting it to work properly. I installed the SXGA+ modded bios, but it was still stuck at 1024x768. Interestingly, in this state I gained the ability to pick between a true 50Hz and 60Hz. I did real testing in this quasi-working state, and it is indeed a real 60Hz.

I soldered the EDID pins which I had neglected, and the machine was then willing to use it to see the panel properly. It's a nice ending - I have SXGA+ and 60Hz!

I'm led to believe that flashing the SXGA+ bios on an XGA X61 will work just fine, and may also get you 60Hz. If I get another X61 I will try this. It would be a happy ending to what had been my #1 irritation with the X61.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dino

#21 Post by Bibin » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:56 am

A followup. After having properly connected the EDID pins and flashed the SXGA+ bios, I can not coerce the LCD to be driven above 50Hz. The 60Hz I want is not available still.

Does anyone know why this happens for the X61 while the X61 Tablet runs at 60Hz without problems? I am considering the risky venture of flashing a tablet BIOS to it to see if the video BIOS portion will be different in a good way. I have done this with an X41->X41t BIOS and it did allow 60Hz.
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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dino

#22 Post by Droider » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:10 pm

Bibin wrote:
Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:56 am
A followup. After having properly connected the EDID pins and flashed the SXGA+ bios, I can not coerce the LCD to be driven above 50Hz. The 60Hz I want is not available still.

Does anyone know why this happens for the X61 while the X61 Tablet runs at 60Hz without problems? I am considering the risky venture of flashing a tablet BIOS to it to see if the video BIOS portion will be different in a good way. I have done this with an X41->X41t BIOS and it did allow 60Hz.
Hey bibin, i am in the same situation with an x41 running at 50mhz. Did your x41 have any issues after flashing x41t bios ? :help:

edit : Pulled the trigger and flashed x41t bios and i have 60hz refresh rate ! :bow: :roll: :P

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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dinos)

#23 Post by Droider » Tue May 21, 2019 7:27 pm

Bibin wrote:
Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:39 am
Everyone with an X61, can you do me a favor and tell me the refresh rate of the display? Ideally test it with a real FPS counter too? I just got an X61 non-tablet. It came running at 50Hz. I installed a linux distro on it. Using xrandr, I can tell it to use 60Hz. It then says it is running at 60, but is in fact still running at 50. Under Windows I have had similar behavior - I will tell it to run at 60Hz, but the display itself will still run at 50 while reporting 60. This was verified using a test that flashes a box every 1/60th of a second. The 50Hz refresh is evident because the flashing was jerky. My X61 tablet runs at an honest 60Hz without a question.

Many will say, "But it's an LCD, it doesn't matter as much". True, not for eye strain, but I frequently create content and use software that expects on a 60Hz display for smooth animation, so this isn't a problem that may be rationalized away.

So, if anyone could shed some light on a solution and tell me what their display says vs what it really does, that would be great. Everyone who's retrofitted an SXGA+ panel, if you could report in as well that would be very helpful.

This link appears to easily let you determine your refresh rate without downloading anything:
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

This will be additionally helpful in coaxing out the true refresh:
http://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

For reference, if I tell my X61 to run at 60Hz, it will then say 60fps on that test, but the movement of the UFO will be jerky (dropping every 6th frame to fit 60 frames into 50).
I have a X60s with 50hz refresh rate. I just flashed X60 Tablet bios to my X60S in order to gain 60hz refresh rate. Everything worked fine but 60hz option didn't come up like it with the x41t bios in X41, instead i got an option for 40hz :) I assume X60s xga doesn't have a 60hz refresh panel in hardware. Correct me if i am wrong. Returned to X60s bios as X60T doesn't offer anything more.

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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dinos)

#24 Post by axur-delmeria » Wed May 22, 2019 4:06 am

Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X601 Core 2 Duo T8100
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
On loan: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dinos)

#25 Post by Droider » Wed May 22, 2019 4:06 pm

axur-delmeria wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:06 am
Maybe this could help? http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0042-x61-60.html
Requires you to dissassemble the laptop and i don't think it is worth that much of an hassle for my xga panel. If there's a modded bios with modded vbios included, i think we can easily overcome the stupid 50hz barrier.

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Re: ThinkPad X61 stuck at 50Hz (56k picture warning for dinos)

#26 Post by Bibin » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:05 pm

That hack only applies to the SXGA+ panel; that EDID will not work correctly on the XGA panel.

This is not a problem I am interested in investing effort into in 2019.
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