Thinkpads Forum

Guys,

Need some input here. I have an X61s running Win7 with 2GB RAM. It has been absolutely rock solid until recently. I have discovered that if I play an HD Netflix video (also happens if I disallow HD playback on the same video), the machine plays OK for a couple minutes and then suddenly turns off as if I disconnected the power. There is no warning and no error message... it just shuts off. If I power it back on, it boots normally and Windows does not complain about an improper shutdown.

This ONLY happens when playing Netflix (Silverlight player) or YouTube HD videos (Flash player).

I have also noticed that when playing Netflix, the CPU utilization starts around 35-40 percent for non-HD content, but then creeps up to about 80+ percent before it shuts off. Not sure if that is an indicator.

Thinking it might be the Thinkpad video driver or power manager, I uninstalled both and let Windows replace any missing drivers. Still does it. Interestingly, when I ran Thinkpad System Update, it did NOT offer to replace the drivers I uninstalled. I had to manually install the power manager (which installed fine).

My hunch is that the GPU is getting hot and shutting the machine down, but wouldn't that cause an error beep of some sort?

I also note that Google searches reveal a lot of people having similar problems, but they are reporting crashes and/or bluescreens, not total shutdowns. Oh, and yes, my machine is set to NOT automatically restart.

TIA,
Paul

It sounds as if your X61s might be overheating. If you are confident you might want to take a look under the hood and check to see if there are any obstructions in the fan and vent area. If there are none I would think that the CPU might need a redo of the thermal paste. Have you tried a program that measures temps??? I know that streaming video seems to be an application that will drive up the heat on older laptops.

FYI there is no separate GPU in your X61s. It uses integrated graphics...Intel X3100 I believe.

Your thinking parallels mine. The next step is to open her up and see if anything is blocked. The fan is running at its normal slow speed, so if it IS overheating, it is not triggering the fan. The system cooling policy is set to "active", so the fan should speed up if the CPU is getting hot. The bottom of the laptop DOES get significantly hotter while playing Netflix.

Are you saying that there is no separate GPU chip? If not, then I don't know what could be getting hot and shutting the machine down. The CPU seems happy at near 100% on other tasks.

I can re-install TPFan control and see what it reports for temps.

Paul

Looks like you may be right.... it is overheating.

I installed TPFanControl and looked at the temps as I streamed a Netflix video. The CPU temp climbed pretty rapidly. I re-configured "Smart 1" to reach fan speed (64) at 70 degrees and at 70 degrees, the fan ramped up to speed 64...... and the temps kept climbing, although much slower. At 75, I terminated the test, but the machine did NOT shut down.

So two things on the agenda for tomorrow....

First, I should have added that I dropped the machine just prior to noticing the shutdowns. It was not a hard fall.... about 1.5 feet onto a metal case sitting on carpet, but it might have knocked the heat sink loose?

Second, I'll open her up and see what is going on inside. I do have thermal paste if needed. And we have a cat, so there could be cat hair in the fan... I don't see it anywhere else, though.

Paul

Side note..... with either the Windows native power manager or the Thinkpad power manager and without TPFanControl operating, the highest speed the fan attains sounds to me like what TPFanControl calls "07". It has never reached the speed that TPFanControl level "64" runs it at, under any circumstances. Is this normal? No wonder it was getting hot when stressed?

Paul

I have never used TPF control. I have owned, worked on, and lovingly restored several ThinkPads. I cannot remember the last time I had any overheating problems. I do know that the X61s most likely is cramped and I do hear that the wireless card in that series is a heat generator as well. I am not so sure you need fan control software to effectively use your x61s I do know that if you have an overheating laptop the first thing you should do is check for obstructions and if there are none to look at the condition of the thermal paste. There are times the factory will be a bit liberal with their thermal paste application. I am also sure that your x61s still has the original thermal paste also which means it may be dry.

The CPU has temp sensors that will shut the laptop down (or in some CPUs throttle the clock speed down) in an effort to prevent overheating. If you need some type of documentation for disassembly please refer to the Hardware Maintenance Manual PDF file (HMM for short). You can find it on Lenovo's support page. All you need is to download the HMM and it will guide you through disassembly- even a complete tear down if need be.

If you do reapply the paste please use a rice-size grain and spread thinly and evenly with a clean razor. Do not create a thick gooey layer. That defeats the purposes of thermal dissipation. A thin layer will fill in the microscopic surface imperfections of the smooth heat transfer surface and transfer the heat to the thermal heat sinks effectively.

Looks like the fan and heat exchanger fins were dirty. I could see it on the fan impeller blades, but not in the heat exchanger fins. I blew them out with compressed air and got some dust out.... not a huge amount, but some. When I put it all back together, I immediately noticed that the fan is a little quieter, and the CPU now hovers around 72 degrees between fan level 3 and 7, streaming an HD Netflix movie. That is a far cry from the 80+ and overheat shutdowns I observed before I cleaned the fan.

So I think the problem is solved, and the "crashing" was heat related and simply a coincidence that I noticed it after I dropped the laptop.

EDIT: I used to think the laptop ran reasonably cool, but after cleaning the fan it now runs just barely above ambient when web surfing. Using TPFanControl, I have the fan set to turn off at 50 degrees C and it actually cycles on and off unless I am doing something strenuous. With TPFan not running and the fan under normal control, it runs at a low speed continuously and the laptop is even cooler.

Thanks for all the input,
Paul

Glad to hear the good news!

You should go a big step further, and remove the motherboard from the laptop.
Then remove the fan, clean off the old, and by now dried-up, thermal paste with isopropyl alcohol (91% or 99%).
Replace it with Arctic Silver 5 or better even: Arctic Silver CMQ2.
You'll notice a further drop in temperature.

I considered doing that but it seemed to be overkill. That, and I have never removed the MB and wasn't sure how much more involved it might be. Removing the keyboard and case top was a piece of cake. And I'm real happy with the temps now.

Do you know if Windows 7 performs an emergency but orderly shutdown if the CPU declares a heat emergency? Does it at least close any open files so as not to leave the HD corrupted? I had no beeps or warnings of any sort.... it just turned off. Sometimes it would freeze for 1-2 seconds before it shut off, sometimes not. On reboot, Windows did not complain about an improper shutdown. There were no errors in the event log other than a message that "the previous shutdown was unexpected" for each shutdown event. A scandisk showed no file system errors but did find and (I assume) recovered two bad sectors. No idea how long they had been bad, but I wonder if a new HD is in order.

Paul

No, when the CPU overheats it powers the machine off instantly, just like if you unplugged AC and removed battery. Windows doesn't even know about it.

When a laptop is more than 3 years old, cleaning the cooling system and applying new thermal paste is recommended.

When using compressed air to unclog the exhaust port and cooling fins, stick a toothpick or similar object between fan blades to prevent the fan from spinning.
Without the toothpick, the fan can spin too fast and tear the fan blades off.
It happened to a friend's laptop (he showed me the wrecked fan) so it can definitely happen.

Good tip! In my case, though, I used compressed air from an airbrush (maybe 10-15 PSI) and there was no danger of damaging the fan. The key was to blow from many angles and in both directions.... I think the biggest issue was that dust had collected between the fan and the inside edge of the cooling fins where it was not visible. I did not see a chunk of dust blow out, but the difference in cooling is night and day.

With the fan back under OS control and just web surfing, the air outlet is cold, as is most of the laptop. The underside is vaguely warm, as is the palm rest..... maybe 5 degrees C above ambient.

Paul