Thinkpads Forum

Hello,

I am wondering what is the best WiFi card to use in my x61? I am specifically looking for a reduction in heat and a bit more range. I believe I heard the Aetheros cards are better for this but I am not sure. Do I need to get a half height card?

Any and all input is great appreciated.

Bookmark this search for the future:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q ... as_qdr=all
Then with it do a forum search for overheating X60 and/or X61, this topic has come up so many times, it's not even funny.

Short answer: Intel 6300. Longer answer: Intel 62xx (6200, 6205, 6250) or 6300.

You will need a modified BIOS for the X61. Read the PM (Private Message) that I sent you. These cards are half-length only, so you will need an "extension", which you can buy on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Half-size-to-Fu ... 4ab84f1289

Note: Intel 6300 can take 3 antennas, but one can use it with only 2 antennas, which just makes it a 62xx.

Fixed_Rider wrote:I believe I heard the Aetheros cards are better for this but I am not sure.

You heard correctly.

Radioguy wrote:I believe I heard the Aetheros cards are better for this but I am not sure.

No longer! There was a generation or two when the Atheros cards were preferable to some of Intel's cards (most notably the Intel 3945) ... but those days are long gone. Today, you won't find a WLAN card which is superior in any respect to the current crop of Intel 62xx/6300 cards.

So..... one.of these?
http://www.amazon.com/NEW-CENTRINO-ADVA ... intel+6235

http://www.amazon.com/Atheros-Ar5b93-Wi ... alf+height

Um, EOMtp, you quoted Fixed_Rider and attributed it to me.

Radioguy wrote:I believe I heard the Aetheros cards are better for this but I am not sure.

EOMtp wrote:No longer! There was a generation or two when the Atheros cards were preferable to some of Intel's cards (most notably the Intel 3945) ... but those days are long gone. Today, you won't find a WLAN card which is superior in any respect to the current crop of Intel 62xx/6300 cards.

It was more than just a generation or two. I think we both know that Atheros traditionally beat Intel on sensitivity. However, I'm not closed-minded to Intel possibly surpassing Atheros. The thing is that I know others who have used recent models (62xx, I believe) who still say that the sensitivity is lower than with contemporary Atheros cards. I can't do a side-by-side comparison myself, but I certainly would try a contemporary Intel card if I'm exposed to overwhelming evidence of what you say. One cannot afford to be a brand loyalist when it comes to such an innovative field.

Radioguy wrote: It was more than just a generation or two. I think we both know that Atheros traditionally beat Intel on sensitivity. However, I'm not closed-minded to Intel possibly surpassing Atheros. The thing is that I know others who have used recent models (62xx, I believe) who still say that the sensitivity is lower than with contemporary Atheros cards. I can't do a side-by-side comparison myself, but I certainly would try a contemporary Intel card if I'm exposed to overwhelming evidence of what you say. One cannot afford to be a brand loyalist when it comes to such an innovative field.

Sometimes one's router can play a major role. My old Westell was downright allergic to Intel wireless cards when used in Windows environment, but was fine with the same cards under Linux...

Personally, I'm an Atheros guy - always have been - and there are only two machines in this household with Intel cards...soon to be down to one.

If 300Mbps is all you need, 42T0825 is a great card, while remaining a full-size-mini-PCI-e...

Radioguy wrote:Um, EOMtp, you quoted Fixed_Rider and attributed it to me.

You are correct; my mistake. Please accept my apology.

Returning to the substance of this discussion, if anyone has empirical evidence of something superior, in any regard, to an Intel 6300, then I would like knowing what that card is, and I thank you for the information.

NP. I think the burden of proof lies with Intel here, considering past history, but we're of one mind in wishing to see more data.

Sorry to revive an old thread but I have searched and searched and haven't been able to answer this particular question.

I'm looking for a new WiFi card for my X61S and while I know that the preferred card is the Intel 6300, there is a bewildering array of visually different "Intel 6300" cards available on Ebay. Some have labels on the top, some do not. Some are bare board and some have the label attached to a metal RF shield. Some have an IBM "FRU" number, some are listed as "for HP" etc. Some have a revision number, some do not. The (presumed new) cards on places like Amazon and Newegg are the bare (unshielded) kind. Are these later production?

Does anyone know if there are any noticeable performance differences between any of these "Intel 6300" cards? Like the version of Bluetooth they support, range, throughput, etc? Or are any differences negligible?

TIA,
Paul

No actual production card will ever be unshielded. You're either looking at a press image, or the back side. Also, all cards will have some kind of label for all those serial numbers and regulatory information.

AFAIK as long as it's not an engineering sample, all 6300 cards should be functionally identical. (6300 does not have onboard Bluetooth. 6230 and 6235 do.)

Lenovo branded cards will have a Lenovo / IBM FRU on the label, and a different PCI VID/PID so they can be properly whitelisted in BIOS. Similarly for HP branded cards.

I haven't seen revision numbers for 6300 cards before. Examples?

twistero wrote:No actual production card will ever be unshielded. You're either looking at a press image, or the back side. Also, all cards will have some kind of label for all those serial numbers and regulatory information.

See this link: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... lsrc=aw.ds.

There are silkscreen lines where the shield would go but I see no provision in foil for soldering it. Or are those lines actually solder left over from removing the shield? Many Ebay listings show this photo, sans shield.

AFAIK as long as it's not an engineering sample, all 6300 cards should be functionally identical. (6300 does not have onboard Bluetooth. 6230 and 6235 do.)

THANKS! That is valuable information that I had not found before now. Does that mean that Bluetooth is not available on the three antenna version? If I want to retain Bluetooth, what would be the best upgrade (if any) for my current (three antenna) Intel 4965AGN?

I haven't seen revision numbers for 6300 cards before. Examples?

I can't find it (the auction may have ended) but I found a couple on Ebay that mentioned a revision level. I remember one was "version A03" and it was printed on the label.

Paul

pgoelz wrote:Does that mean that Bluetooth is not available on the three antenna version? If I want to retain Bluetooth, what would be the best upgrade (if any) for my current (three antenna) Intel 4965AGN?

The Bluetooth on your Thinkpad is a separate device; the Wifi card has nothing to do with it.

pgoelz wrote: See this link: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... lsrc=aw.ds.

There are silkscreen lines where the shield would go but I see no provision in foil for soldering it. Or are those lines actually solder left over from removing the shield? Many Ebay listings show this photo, sans shield.

That's a press image. For starters, I don't think Intel uses unmarked chips in their product.

pgoelz wrote:Does that mean that Bluetooth is not available on the three antenna version? If I want to retain Bluetooth, what would be the best upgrade (if any) for my current (three antenna) Intel 4965AGN?

As dr_st already said, the Bluetooth radio in X61(S) is a separate device in the lid and has nothing to do with the WiFi card. A quick search will tell you that the 4965AGN you already have does not have Bluetooth functionality.
Even if you opt for an Intel 6230/6235/7260 (or even Atheros) WiFi + Bluetooth combo card, you will not be able to use its Bluetooth part in your X61S, because the Bluetooth part uses USB lanes and the WLAN slot does not have USB lanes.

There is no one right or wrong answer for what wireless card to get for an X61. It all depends on three things. Do you want 2 or 3 antennas (the third you have to add yourself, at least on my X61 it is like that)? Do you want to use the 5Ghz band (2.4Ghz is by far the most common)? Do you want to use wireless AC?

OK, so I don't need a WiFi card with onboard bluetooth. And yes, I could have figured that out.... sorry

I do want the best performance I can get on both 2.4GHz and 5Gz. It looks like the Intel 6300 is indeed a good choice.

And by the way, both of my X61S DO have three antennae... black, white and grey. The "new" X61S came with an older two antenna card and the third antenna lead was just tucked under the board that sits to the left of the mini-PCI connectors.

Paul

If you want to go one better, apply Middleton's BIOS, then get one of these:
Intel 7260HMW http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6833106190 and ignore the BT part.

If you're at all interested in Hackingtoshes, this would be the way to go: Azurewave AW-CE123H. Wifi AC + BT4.0. I recently picked up this card and it works great under Win + Ubuntu, but is a bit more of a pain in OS X (the point is that it's compatible, unlike the Intel cards).

R

pgoelz wrote:I do want the best performance I can get on both 2.4GHz and 5Gz. It looks like the Intel 6300 is indeed a good choice.

The Intel 6300 doesn't do very well with 5Ghz compared to the 7260 or Atheros cards. It works fine up close, but range is poor, especially with any obstructions.

pgoelz wrote:And by the way, both of my X61S DO have three antennae... black, white and grey. The "new" X61S came with an older two antenna card and the third antenna lead was just tucked under the board that sits to the left of the mini-PCI connectors.

Ok, my X61 only has two, so I wasn't sure.

I am satisfied with the range of my 4965AGN on 5GHz but more is always better.

No more than a passing interest in a hackintosh. I'm curious, but not willing to buy the OS. But thanks for the recommendation... I'll come back to it if I ever score a copy of one of the Mac OSs.

Its looking like maybe the best bet is to downscale to two antennae and go with the 7260? If it can do better on two antennae than the 4965AGN does on three, I'm OK. If I "ignore the BT part", can BT be completely powered down on that card? Or conversely, can I use that card's BT and disable the X61S onboard BT?

Again, sorry for the flurry of questions. I thought I was pretty conversant with this stuff but the choices are a lot more bewildering than I expected

Paul

pgoelz wrote: Its looking like maybe the best bet is to downscale to two antennae and go with the 7260? If it can do better on two antennae than the 4965AGN does on three, I'm OK. If I "ignore the BT part", can BT be completely powered down on that card? Or conversely, can I use that card's BT and disable the X61S onboard BT?

You wouldn't be able to use the BT part in your X61S if you install a 7260 in the WLAN slot. Since the WLAN slot does not have USB lanes, the computer won't even know the BT part is there. I have no idea whether the BT part consumes any power in this case.

If you do go for a 7260, though, make triple sure you're getting the right version. There are many variants of 7260: 2.4GHz only b/g/n, 2.4GHz & 5GHz a/b/g/n, 2.4GHz & 5GHz a/b/g/n/ac in either mini PCIe or NGFF/M.2.

Regarding 3 antennas: do you have a 802.11n/ac access point that also have 3 antennas? If your AP only has 2 antennas, then the biggest advantage of a 3-stream wireless card - higher data rate - is now irrelevant. Standard 802.11n has a maximum data rate of 150mbps per stream (using 40MHz channel width), so a 3-stream card connected to a 3-stream AP has maximum data rate of 450mbps. If either end is only 2-stream, though, the max data rate is capped at 300mbps.

Ah, OK. That makes sense! No, I do not currently have a three antenna AP. I thought the three antennae were for diversity. Now I understand they are separate streams. Or at least the third one is.

Thanks for the head's up on the versions. I did notice there were cards that said "N" and cards that said "AC". I assume the "AC" cards are the ones to get since they do all the lesser formats as well?

Paul

pgoelz wrote:I am satisfied with the range of my 4965AGN on 5GHz but more is always better.

No more than a passing interest in a hackintosh. I'm curious, but not willing to buy the OS. But thanks for the recommendation... I'll come back to it if I ever score a copy of one of the Mac OSs.

Its looking like maybe the best bet is to downscale to two antennae and go with the 7260? If it can do better on two antennae than the 4965AGN does on three, I'm OK. If I "ignore the BT part", can BT be completely powered down on that card? Or conversely, can I use that card's BT and disable the X61S onboard BT?

Again, sorry for the flurry of questions. I thought I was pretty conversant with this stuff but the choices are a lot more bewildering than I expected

Paul

If you don't want wireless AC, the best card you can get is the Atheros AR9380. It comes in half size (AR5BHB112) and full size (AR5BXB112). It also goes by the name of Bigfoot Networks Killer Wireless-N 1103 (half sized) and Apple Airport Extreme 607-7211-A (full sized).

In testing I did with my Intel 5300, 6300, and 7260AC on 2.4Ghz wireless-N, the loss of the third antenna does decrease the 7260AC's performance compared to the 5300 and 6300.

pgoelz wrote:I thought the three antennae were for diversity. Now I understand they are separate streams. Or at least the third one is.

Well, the 3rd antenna is also used for diversity, so it could help with reception, range, etc. I don't have any real world evidence on actual performance, but it looks like Qing Dao has.

pgoelz wrote:I did notice there were cards that said "N" and cards that said "AC". I assume the "AC" cards are the ones to get since they do all the lesser formats as well?

That should be the case, yes.

Qing Dao wrote:
If you don't want wireless AC, the best card you can get is the Atheros AR9380. It comes in half size (AR5BHB112) and full size (AR5BXB112). It also goes by the name of Bigfoot Networks Killer Wireless-N 1103 (half sized) and Apple Airport Extreme 607-7211-A (full sized).

I second this recommendation wholeheartedly.

Let me expand upon my observations when I tried out the 5300, 6300, and 7260AC. This was all with 2.4Ghz. In suburbia, USA, inside the home all three cards performed pretty much the same connecting to two wireless N 300Mbps networks and a wireless G 54Mbps network. Using the program inSSIDer, the 7260AC showed a little less reception to the networks, although I couldn't tell the difference between them during normal use and downloading things. However, the 7260AC could not see or rarely see maybe one network from a neighbor, while the 5300 and 6300 stably showed several and allowed me to try to connect to them. In big city, China, I currently have a wireless N 300Mbps network in my apartment. There are tons of other networks causing interference. At my desk, I use my computer connected with the ethernet cord, but everywhere else I use wireless. The 7260AC connects just fine and shows decent enough reception, but actual throughput is much lower. There is a major difference I can feel when browsing the web or downloading things. It really is no fun at all. However, with the 5300 or 6300 installed, throughput is much higher. Using either of those two cards, I can rarely, if ever, tell the difference between using wired and wireless.

After the holidays I will have my nice wireless AC router back, and I can do some tests in my apartment with the 5Ghz band and with some other wireless cards as well.

and what about heat comparison?
I am currently using a 6250 and it is much cooler than the original, but still not as cool as I would like. So are there other cooler alternatives?