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X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

X60/X61 series specific matters only.
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X-Man
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X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#1 Post by X-Man » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:20 am

So having replaced the fan assembly I left the machine running overnight playing video. Everything was fine this morning with core temperatures well under control.

However, I wanted to install Middleton's BIOS and inserted a battery as is required but fortunately before I could run the exe the computer shut down. Powered on again and it shut down. And again with the same results. Then I removed the battery and it was fine for hour, so I stuck thew battery back in again and it shut down within 2mins of logging into windows (as before).

BTW in a possibly related issue the 'LCD icon plate' seems to be faulty with only the bluetooth and wifi LEDs working

Does anybody have any ideas what could be wrong?
Active: X220 Tablet (i5-2520M, Multitouch) | T530 (i7-3720QM, 1920x1080)
Retired: 2x X31 (1.6/1.7 GHz) | T60p (Core Duo 2.2Ghz, 1600x1200 IPS) | 2x X61T (1.6/1.8GHz)

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#2 Post by Nprod » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:47 am

I don't think i can give much of an advice other than to check if all the connections are done properly. If it didn't do that before the disassembly, then obviously something was not reassembled correctly.
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#3 Post by X-Man » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:35 am

Thanks for your reply Nprod.

I bought the machine second hand on eBay but after discovering the fan problem got a generous seller's discount so I ended up paying very little for it.

Anyway the bottom line is I don't know whether the shutdown issue was there before, but certainly the LED problem was there, and I am pretty sure all the connections are solid since it is working absolutely fine on mains power.
Active: X220 Tablet (i5-2520M, Multitouch) | T530 (i7-3720QM, 1920x1080)
Retired: 2x X31 (1.6/1.7 GHz) | T60p (Core Duo 2.2Ghz, 1600x1200 IPS) | 2x X61T (1.6/1.8GHz)

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#4 Post by Nprod » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:43 am

You mean that the LED problem was there before the disassembly? What about the AC-power LED when you plug it in?
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#5 Post by Neil » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:44 am

Sounds like a defective battery to me. Do you have a different battery you can try?
Could also be that the charging circuits have been damaged in the past, and the presence of a battery causes a fault that results in shut-down.
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#6 Post by X-Man » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:50 am

Nprod wrote:You mean that the LED problem was there before the disassembly?
Yup
Nprod wrote:What about the AC-power LED when you plug it in?
Nothing, before and after (or HD, etc)
Active: X220 Tablet (i5-2520M, Multitouch) | T530 (i7-3720QM, 1920x1080)
Retired: 2x X31 (1.6/1.7 GHz) | T60p (Core Duo 2.2Ghz, 1600x1200 IPS) | 2x X61T (1.6/1.8GHz)

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#7 Post by X-Man » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:53 am

Neil wrote:Sounds like a defective battery to me. Do you have a different battery you can try?
I actually have a second X61T that I bought subsequently. The battery is fine in that machine, so I very much doubt that is the problem.
Neil wrote:Could also be that the charging circuits have been damaged in the past, and the presence of a battery causes a fault that results in shut-down.
Can you be more specific?

Many thanks for your help!
Active: X220 Tablet (i5-2520M, Multitouch) | T530 (i7-3720QM, 1920x1080)
Retired: 2x X31 (1.6/1.7 GHz) | T60p (Core Duo 2.2Ghz, 1600x1200 IPS) | 2x X61T (1.6/1.8GHz)

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#8 Post by Nprod » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:39 am

So you've tried swapping the batteries? What about swapping the button board on the LCD assembly?
IBM Thinkpad X61T | Intel L7700 @ 1.8Ghz | 12.1'' XGA | 2GB DDR2 | GMA965 | 60GB HDD | WinXP Tablet SP3

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#9 Post by X-Man » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:46 am

Nprod wrote:So you've tried swapping the batteries? What about swapping the button board on the LCD assembly?
I appreciate the suggestion, but is this based on experience or a stab in the dark?

Frankly I was hoping for more of a surgical incision that would leave me with two working computers, rather than a process of trial and error that would leave me with 2 X61Ts in bits.
Active: X220 Tablet (i5-2520M, Multitouch) | T530 (i7-3720QM, 1920x1080)
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#10 Post by Nprod » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:12 am

First you have to locate the problem and then take steps towards fixing it. You can't cut corners here, since there are multiple possible causes - faulty battery, bad button board, pinched cable somewhere, bad extender board, bad motherboard etc. You have the luxury of owning a second machine to compare with, so boiling the list down to a single cause will be much faster.
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#11 Post by X-Man » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:48 am

Nprod, like I said I appreciate your help. Your trial and error approach is absolutely right, UNLESS a board member happens to already have come across a situation where an otherwise perfectly working computer suddenly starts shutting down almost instantly when an otherwise perfectly good battery is inserted.

I'll give it a few days and then maybe get the screwdrivers out :)
Active: X220 Tablet (i5-2520M, Multitouch) | T530 (i7-3720QM, 1920x1080)
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#12 Post by Medessec » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:51 pm

For the shutdown issue-I had a very similar issue with a T60p I recently had in. Don't know if it will apply to the X61T exactly, but to solve the problem, I had to take the T60p apart and remove the CMOS battery, and remove the battery and AC adapter, press the power button a few times(after removing all power) then leave the laptop to sit for about 15 minutes. This is a common solution to solve issues related to the CMOS or EEPROM, or charged capacitors on the motherboard goofing up booting sequences or the BIOS. I highly recommend you try it.

The lights not working on the LCD still sounds a lot like an improperly seated or secured LCD chip or LCD connector. You should double check to make sure you put it back together correctly... it's real easy to layer some parts wrong, such as the plate under the LCD chip, visible from the battery bay. Just glance to make sure all parts look sound, and that everything's level and not awkward. Make sure when your keyboard is set in the laptop, that there are no humps or uneven points.
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#13 Post by X-Man » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:34 pm

Medessec wrote:I had to take the T60p apart and remove the CMOS battery, and remove the battery and AC adapter, press the power button a few times(after removing all power) then leave the laptop to sit for about 15 minutes. This is a common solution to solve issues related to the CMOS or EEPROM, or charged capacitors on the motherboard goofing up booting sequences or the BIOS. I highly recommend you try it.
Thanks very much for your reply to this and my other thread.

I will certainly try this tomorrow, but can I ask you to clarify whether you also replaced the CMOS battery?
Medessec wrote:The lights not working on the LCD still sounds a lot like an improperly seated or secured LCD chip or LCD connector. You should double check to make sure you put it back together correctly... it's real easy to layer some parts wrong, such as the plate under the LCD chip, visible from the battery bay. Just glance to make sure all parts look sound, and that everything's level and not awkward. Make sure when your keyboard is set in the laptop, that there are no humps or uneven points.
My main concern with this is the extent to which it may be symptomatic of the problem regarding shutdowns. As long as it is merely cosmetic I would rather not disassemble the screen unless absolutely necessary.

Anyway, I'll report back when I have tried the battery removal procedure -- thanks again for that!
Active: X220 Tablet (i5-2520M, Multitouch) | T530 (i7-3720QM, 1920x1080)
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#14 Post by Medessec » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:24 pm

No problem- and indeed to clarify on the CMOS battery, I simply unplugged the one I had in and then plugged it back in, because it was still good.

And based on what you decide to try, that'd be cool if you could report back. I think you might want to look at the LCD chip while you're doing the CMOS fix, because I do recall you have to take at least the keyboard out to get to the CMOS battery, and maybe the entire top bezel. You might as well peek at the LCD chip and connector while you're at it.
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#15 Post by X-Man » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:35 am

Well there's good news and bad news.

The lit LEDs are still only two in number, and the machine still switches off with the battery and power adaptor inserted as before. Furthermore my old 'Thermal Sensor Error' has returned with a vengeance and I now have a crack in the top right hand corner of the LCD bezel.

The good news is I hold no grudges whatsoever ;-) But there is more: As of the completion of the operation I still hadn't managed to flash Middleton's bios due to the battery related shutdown issue. I then tried to do this from a flash drive and continued to have no success (maybe the iso is not quite right?). Anyway, I had Ubuntu on the flash drive and tried to boot up from that. Success!

I then stuck in a Windows 8 hard disk and. . . success! But it wouldn't let me execute the BIOS upgrade due to missing drivers, so I then reverted to the Vista x32 disk I had been using all along which failed again and again ad nauseam.

I then dug out an old hard disk with an XP Pro installation, and the BIOS flashed smartly, and it now seems to running the Windows 8 developers preview perfectly. I am still not sure what the problem was but one obvious difference is the presence or lack of the Lenovo tools.

And FWIW, while all this was going on I did a clean install of Windows 8 on the fully working X61T, and I have to say I really like it. There is no way I'll be switching my desktop from Windows 7, but for the tablet format I find Windows 8 superb.
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#16 Post by milstein » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:41 am

The shutdown problem of my x61t 7767 is getting me crazy - it shuts down in the middle of my work every day, 2-4 times a day.
Can this be fixed? And have any forum member fixed this heat related random shutdown problem?
Do I need to buy another laptop?

Please share your experience.

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#17 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:51 am

You will need to take the laptop apart, remove the CPU-fan, blow it out (but hold the blades so they don't spin), clean off the old gunk from CPU and fan with isopropyl alcohol 91%, then apply fresh Arctic Silver 5 (AS5) in the size of a rice corn. Spread that out evenly with e.g. a credit card.
Reassemble.
Enjoy.
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#18 Post by crashnburn » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:41 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:You will need to take the laptop apart, remove the CPU-fan, blow it out (but hold the blades so they don't spin), clean off the old gunk from CPU and fan with isopropyl alcohol 91%, then apply fresh Arctic Silver 5 (AS5) in the size of a rice corn. Spread that out evenly with e.g. a credit card.
Reassemble.
Enjoy.
Noted for the next time I get to open my machine :)
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#19 Post by milstein » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:40 pm

I also suspect that's the problem of thermo-paste because these head related shutdown had not occurred until the fan was replaced by one Lenovo support vendor here in Berlin. The screen was replaced by them too. And I have to say that they did a really bad job when they replaced the screen - the bezel was cracked and the connection to the screen was fuzzy and loose, I believe simply because they have not tried hard enough. I complained about that but they just said there is nothing more they can do.
So the whole belief of stereotypical German seriousness and the precision in engineering etc has been debunked, add up to the fact that none of the German people are capable of being funny and humorous.

Oh wait, I am using the TPFanControl (by troubadix) which is created by a super nice German Thinkpad fellow. OK, I still have hope for the average German workers - I hope they are just normal people like around the world, and some of they can still be serious at their tasks and their engineering work.

OK, got some AS5 & isopropyl alcohol. I'll do it myself this time on my X61T with 1400x1050 screen. In case it doesn't work well and my next Thinkpad would be a X2?0 Tablet, probably a X220, but sadly with only 1366x768. I just hope Lenovo can start to use those high resolution screen again. 1920x1200 or up, at least providing 1000 pixel vertical screen real estate, so that I can retire my X61T more willing. But sadly, from X230 and on they are using the new keyboard, I am sure I will miss that as hell.

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#20 Post by milstein » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:19 pm

Done, and sadly temperature as shown by TPFanControl is now even higher.
Before was around 75'C and easier getting to >80'C. Now, after cleaning all dust and applying fresh AS5 paste, it is getting up to >90'C.
I'll push it a little bit more to see if the heat related random shutdown symptom still exists.

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#21 Post by milstein » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:40 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:You will need to take the laptop apart, remove the CPU-fan, blow it out (but hold the blades so they don't spin), clean off the old gunk from CPU and fan with isopropyl alcohol 91%, then apply fresh Arctic Silver 5 (AS5) in the size of a rice corn. Spread that out evenly with e.g. a credit card.
Reassemble.
Enjoy.
Really want you guys to know that it works, but it doesn't --- it just random shutdown based on heat issue again. Any process with higher graphical processing e.g. video and wireless traffic will bring up the temperature.
Maybe it's really the time for a new laptop.

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#22 Post by Fixed_Rider » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:54 pm

Shot in the dark here but..... Have you checked the heat sink and fan? Is the sync sitting flush, does the fan really work?
Swap it out with the unit from your other x61??
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#23 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:56 pm

You most likely don't have a flush fitting cooler/CPU connection.
If you remove the cooler again, you can check if it has the full 'imprint' of the CPU on it (in AS5).
Also, it may take up to 200 hours(!) for AS5 to work properly.
Last edited by RealBlackStuff on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#24 Post by milstein » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:22 am

It is really difficult to know if the fit is flush with the thermal paste until I open it up again.
So far it has shutdown > 3 times, just because some minor videos and some minor Google game apps running within the Chrome browser. However, after thoroughly dusting the fan and the internal, I can tell the fan is working more efficiently. For example, I just started watching a Youtube video of how to apply thermal paste and when the video ran for 24 seconds, the temperature of CPU raised to 84'C with the fan running real noisy. In fear of having the system shutdown in the middle again, I could only stop the video. And after about half a minute the temperature has dropped back to 73'C.

Doesn't it sound pain in the butt to use my system? I have cleaned it so nicely I hope it will eventually work as RealBlackStuff said.

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#25 Post by milstein » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:12 pm

It just shutdown another time again - among all other countless times.
Group members, please enlighten me: I know some Thinkpads can last forever but what are the signs that I should retire it?

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#26 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:21 pm

Are you sure that your fan is even working?
Have you tried without a battery?
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#27 Post by milstein » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:54 pm

Thanks for your reply RealBlackStuff.
The fan is for sure working: I cleaned every bit of dust off it before reassembling it, and it is very noisy, so I can tell it is definitely working. I also tried using the laptop without the battery from time to time --- but it still did random heat shutdown many times without a battery (with AC adapter plugged it.)

The only time that it has not shown random heat shutdown is the time it is not plugged in the AC adapter but running with just the juice from an 8-cell battery. It is also the time that I have never tried to push it (with more network traffic or/and video and busy processing) because the 8-cell battery can now last for less than 1.5 hours and the system told me the battery is 'broken'.

Cheers,

M

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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#28 Post by X-Man » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:14 am

Are you actually monitoring the processor temperature, and if so how hot is it running prior to shutting down?
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#29 Post by X-Man » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:34 am

Edit: OK, I see you have already 'answered' my question above.

Very strange. The day I replaced the fan I saw little or no decline in temperatures, but a day later they were down to an average of 45C.

It really is very strange indeed; the fan is in fact a very basic heat exchanger, and you would have thought as long as the fan i rotating the unit should be working.

FWIW, I bought mine from an eBay seller called ny-citi-com. Very reasonable price, quick delivery and it worked.
Active: X220 Tablet (i5-2520M, Multitouch) | T530 (i7-3720QM, 1920x1080)
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Re: X61T Problem #2: Shutdown

#30 Post by Fixed_Rider » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:54 am

I also had good lucky with the same seller that X-Man dealt with. Essentially the same experience too. RBS did a fan swap along with the SATA mod on my daughters T43p and after a day it is very cool and quiet.
ThinkPads: T420 W520, X61, X61s, T61, T43p (SATA Mod by RBS) & iPhone 5

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