Thinkpads Forum

I just got my very nice Thinkpad X61. I was very happy, as it is in great condition and everything works perfect. Then I tried to log into the BIOS, and I get this lock icon on the top left. I just press Enter and it lets me in, so I figure maybe everything is OK.

The problem is that some settings in the BIOS are not changeable. Obviously my first stop in these types of circumstances is to come to the forum and do a search.

Well, I don't like what I see. So there is a Supervisor Password and if the CMOS battery dies it will mean I'll have a doorstop with the Thinkpad logo on it.

Am I totally screwed? I'd like to think I didn't waste my time and money on this.

Thanks,

Thinkpaddict.

You could try and get the SVP from the former owner, but that usually is a dead end. Forum rules don't allow for any further discussion on the subject.

Neil wrote:You could try and get the SVP from the former owner, but that usually is a dead end. Forum rules don't allow for any further discussion on the subject.

Thank you, that's what I thought.

I have just sent a request to the seller for the password. Hopefully they can request it from the actual supervisor, although like you said I really doubt it.

That's too bad. I guess that's what you get when you buy stuff in eBay. Sometimes things don't turn out perfect.

Thinkpaddict wrote:So there is a Supervisor Password and if the CMOS battery dies it will mean I'll have a doorstop with the Thinkpad logo on it.

the password is written to an eeprom which means it doesn't need or care about the power level of the CMOS battery. as long as you don't need to get into the BIOS to change a setting, you're fine.

IOW, if you can use the laptop now despite the defined supervisor password, you'll still be able to use it even after the CMOS battery is dead.

filmbuff wrote: the password is written to an eeprom which means it doesn't need or care about the power level of the CMOS battery. as long as you don't need to get into the BIOS to change a setting, you're fine.

IOW, if you can use the laptop now despite the defined supervisor password, you'll still be able to use it even after the CMOS battery is dead.

The way I understand it, the problem with the CMOS battery going dead is that the Date and Time are flagged as invalid, and there is no way to start the system unless they are set properly (which you can't do because of the password). That's what I gather, but maybe I'm wrong?

You are not wrong. That's the way it works when the Supervisor password is enabled and you lose the CMOS battery. The real-time clock loses its information when the CMOS power is lost. The BIOS has been programmed to detect this and insist you properly set it before it allows any other operation; including booting an operating system. The only way to set the time is to enter the BIOS menu. If you can't do that because of the password, then essentially you have a doorstopper (i.e., the system is "bricked").

Thank you for clarifying that!

Well, I just got a response from the seller apologizing and saying that he will get the password to me, so I'm quite hopeful! I'll report back with the conclusion.

Thank you very much to everybody that has helped me. If the seller ends up not finding the password, at least I know I have a few options to consider.

[smacks myself in the forehead] you guys are right!

and if the password from the seller doesn't work, it might be advisable to replace the battery w/a fresh one while the system is powered on.

filmbuff wrote:[smacks myself in the forehead] you guys are right!

and if the password from the seller doesn't work, it might be advisable to replace the battery w/a fresh one while the system is powered on.

NO NO AND NO...

That's how you instantly brick the system...

filmbuff wrote:[smacks myself in the forehead] you guys are right!

and if the password from the seller doesn't work, it might be advisable to replace the battery w/a fresh one while the system is powered on.

I'll have to reserve judgement on this technique until I personally try it. A brief circuit analysis suggests that it might be possible to swap out the CMOS battery with the system powered up (not simply connected to an AC adapter or with a battery installed) and not lose the date/time information. However, at this point, I would not recommend doing it yet.

I have a recent X61 arrival that came with a damaged-in-shipping LCD. Perfect candidate for this experiment.

edit: Okay... verified that the system had the correct time. Removed battery and AC adapter. Opened the system up and disconnected the CMOS battery for 10 seconds. Reconnected the CMOS battery, connected the AC adapter (no main battery) and booted. System entered BIOS menu without needing any prompts (as it should). This is the exact action that would take place when the CMOS power is interrupted; lose the date/time and the next power on forces you into BIOS. I set the date and time and powered off the system. Connected the main battery (AC still connected) and booted the system into BIOS. While at the BIOS menu, I disconnected the CMOS battery for at least one minute; plenty enough time for one to remove and replace the stuck-on CMOS battery. Re-connected the CMOS battery and accessed the Date/Time BIOS menu. System time still intact. Powered off the X61 and let it sit for 10 seconds (still connected to AC and with battery). Powered back up and system attempted to boot but since there is no hard drive in the system, it only displayed the "Cannot boot from any device" list. Notable here is that the system did NOT force BIOS access. This means that the time information was still valid; I verified it by looking at BIOS again.

I then repeated the experiment several more times but leaving the system OFF.

The AC adapter and battery remained connected during the time I removed the CMOS battery. System was still able to retain the date/time.

Removed the AC adapter, leaving the main battery connected and repeated the process. Time still intact.

Last experiment was to remove the main battery and only connect the AC adapter. Again, no loss of system time.

It seems clear to me that it is possible to exchange the CMOS battery without losing the time as long as a source of main power is attached to the system. I would suggest that the same advice given when flashing the BIOS be followed: make sure you have a fully charged battery AND connect an AC adapter when attempting this procedure.

Correction: The system I used for this CMOS battery swap experiment was an X61s, not an X61 (if it really matters).

Is it not worth returning your damaged X61 to the seller?

By the way, this X61 absolutely flies. It has a top of the line T8300 CPU (2.40Ghz), and I'm noticing a big performance increase compared to my other X61 (2Ghz). Not that this other one is slow either. The X61's are great machines and can be had very cheaply these days.

The system ended up costing me only $25 as the seller issued a partial refund. I figure that for the price, I have a good motherboard, keyboard, lid, bezel and 1GB of memory to be used as a donor for my other X61 systems.

Thank you for running those tests, very useful.

What's the usual source for CMOS batteries? I need to replace the one on my "new" T23.

Also, I'm wondering if CMOS batteries last less time when the system is stored without a main battery. It looks from your tets as if the CMOS might not be used at all when the system is powered by other source.

CMOS batteries are available by the gazillions on eBay from about $1.80 onwards.
T23 has the same battery as T30/T4x/R5x/T6x
They last on average 5 years or more.
Just check for "CMOS battery IBM T23" [or substitute T23 with any of the above].

RealBlackStuff wrote:CMOS batteries are available by the gazillions on eBay from about $1.80 onwards.
T23 has the same battery as T30/T4x/R5x/T6x
They last on average 5 years or more.
Just check for "CMOS battery IBM T23" [or substitute T23 with any of the above].

Thank you, I'll do that. I remember the CMOS battery on the T23 being slightly hard to reconnect (wasn't it recessed under the battery in one corner?) Or maybe I just didn't have enough practice.

Very useful info rkawakami. Thanks

I would like to stress that I only tested out this CMOS battery swap with an X61 system. Don't know if this definitely works with other X6x systems, or for that matter, any other Thinkpads.

@Thinkpaddict: With all of the practice I've had changing CMOS batteries in the T23, I still have a hard time! What helps is that you slightly bend the connector at the end of the battery "up" (instead of leaving it sticking straight out from the plastic battery holder frame). That aligns it better with the socket on the motherboard as one typically needs to angle the whole unit into the battery bay.

Correction: The system I used for this CMOS battery swap experiment was an X61s, not an X61 (if it really matters).

OK, thank you for confirming it's actually a tricky operation. I'll order a CMOS battery and use your trick when I connect it.

Good thinking about that disclaimer too. There's no warranty that what you did would work in other system, so "caveat emptor" might be a good strategy in this case.

I got a X61s for my mother last year but it also had the BIOS protected with a password (I knew this prior to purchase). Anyway after much Googling it seems one can <admin redacted>. However the kit to do this cost upwards of £100 (USD 150), so the other alternative would be to use a service who have that sort of kit to unlock your BIOS for you.

@Shredder11:
we do not allow open discussions here about ways or methods to overcome password and related security issues!
However, you are welcome to pass on your information to others using PM.

Ooops sorry about that and point taken

It's slightly ghetto, and I haven't tested it, but in theory, you could hook another battery up in parallel and not lose your settings. Basically, it would go something like this:

1. Clip the connector off of the new battery and strip the ends, being careful not to short them.
2. Strip some of the insulation off of one wire of the existing battery, without breaking the wire.
3. Solder the wire from the new battery to the old one.
4. Insulate the connection with electrical tape or heat shrink.
5. Repeat steps 2-4 with the other wire.
6. Clip the cables to the old battery and insulate.
7. Remove old battery from the holder and put the new one in.

Always good to have a plan "B".

I would not recommend to anyone to try unlock SVP by yourself.

btw it has nothing to do with CMOS battery ( CR2032 ) or bios either.

password is stored in atmel chip mostly 24RF08 .
As it has been mentioned before it is against this forum rules to post there how to hack it.

Greetings everyone,
It was something of a relief to find a recent discussion on this topic and I'm hopeful that someone here will be able to steer me in the right direction ....
I bought an X61s on ebay about 15 months ago and it has been great - I didn't feel a need to fiddle with it. However, when I thought it might be nice to replace the HDD with an SSD a visit to the BIOS revealed that an unknown supervisor pw is in place. I can get into the BIOS as a user and change from compatibility mode to AHCI, which is one step forward, but I gather it's necessary to update to a Middleton BIOS to enable SATA II. So here's my question: is there any chance I will (i) be able to flash the BIOS and (ii) still get into the machine afterwards? Flash BIOS update by end user is currently enabled, but would I still need the supervisor password somewhere along the line? It's a really nice machine and I don't want to brick it unneccessarily. Your advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Since Flash BIOS by end user is enabled you will be able to flash Middleton's BIOS. Everything should work fine after that. The supervisor password will still be enabled after the flash. When the CMOS battery dies and you need to replace it, it will reset the date. That's when it'll become problematic as discussed above.